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Post by larryhauck on Feb 5, 2011 2:43:29 GMT
Larry, I was not making any assumptions. I was merely showing those who are discussing the matter what Hayley herself said. I only put this out there, so there is no question as to what Hayley thinks or feels about this. However, it is perfectly reasonable to assume she means what she says. In case you failed to read my entire post, I said that I doubt anything like that would happen anytime very soon, but that it is not impossible. Oh yes, I know what happens. You get mad at me and scold me, as you usually do.  It is you who is making the assumptions here, and I do not appreciate your negativitiy in general in these discussions at all. Hi Libby I did not mean to scold you. You're too sensitive. And if I was negative I'm sorry. I like what you post and I think you are a positive asset to the forum. I speed read and sometimes I misconstrue a comment. I''m sure that was the case here. So I'm sorry. But I wish you would lighten up and quit taking things so personally. Libby I have never been and never will ever be mad at you. If I should ever disagree with you that wouldn't make me mad at you. I would respect your opinion. After all we are both Americans and one of the strong things about or great country is the ability to disagree without any animosity. Larry |
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Post by larryhauck on Feb 5, 2011 3:11:57 GMT
Only 5000? That seems to confirm my fears that she needs to gain a larger fanbase even more urgently than I thought. 5000 wouldn’t even fill the Albert Hall. Camilla Kerslake already has over 12000 followers and she hasn’t been around for a fraction of the time that Hayley has. What does that tell us? It tells us that Hayley hasn't been promoted properly. She is a vastly better singer than Camilla Kerslake. Martin D Amen to that Martin D. Larry |
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Post by larryhauck on Feb 5, 2011 3:24:42 GMT
Hi Libby, That's good news. Perhaps she is listening the constant haranguing both you and I give her after all. I really do believe thare are a lot of people in the states who would enjoy her music, despite what Larry says. They deserve the chance to hear her. Let's hope she does a few shows over there this year to promote her new album. Martin D OK Libby our paths cross again. I still don't think C/C would go over well enough in the states to produce an audience large enough to make one successful. Lets agree to disagree. Love Larry |
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Post by larryhauck on Feb 5, 2011 4:04:09 GMT
Hi Spiderman That's why I keep hammering on the fact that Hayley should sing pop and ballads here. Larry WELL she could come out here and sing a few country and Westenra western songs, ill bet Hayley could knock out a pretty awesome yodel  much love Tracy Hi TraceI just wanted to let you know that I have advocated Hayley trying country in the U S many times. I think she would be a hit. Then if she chose she could move to pop or folk or anything else. But I don't think classical crossover would work here. Love Larryx |
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Post by xanadu66 on Feb 5, 2011 9:31:52 GMT
Only 5000? That seems to confirm my fears that she needs to gain a larger fanbase even more urgently than I thought. 5000 wouldn’t even fill the Albert Hall. Camilla Kerslake already has over 12000 followers and she hasn’t been around for a fraction of the time that Hayley has. What does that tell us? It tells us that Hayley hasn't been promoted properly. She is a vastly better singer than Camilla Kerslake. Martin D I agree with the last part of that - I like them both but I prefer Hayley. I don't think we are in a position to say Hayley has not been promoted "properly". Maybe not as much as we would like but we have to accept that her managers and her music company must be doing what they believe is needed and right for her. If they were to fail her in any way, they would also be failing themselves and they cannot afford to do that, especially in the current climate. I seem to recall Hayley having a vast amount of promo in her first year. I saw far less for Camilla in hers. I would not expect Hayley's to continue at the same rate now she is in her eighth year as an international artist. Her past success, to some degree, should deem it unnecessary. More news on her official site would help existing fans but would do little to actually promote her because nobody would look at it unless they were an existing fan. The same would be true of her own Youtube channel and social networking sites. The promo that might increase her fanbase would cost a fortune which is why it needs to be limited. |
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Post by xanadu66 on Feb 5, 2011 9:42:01 GMT
First of all, I don't think I've had the pleasure of welcoming you to the forum! You really have given us all a most interesting point of discussion.  It's very true that Hayley is becoming less popular in the UK, as our stats tell us. Her fanbase has really grown in central Europe (eg. France, Spain, and Germany). The US continues to reflect its support for Hayley. If Hayley's management can get hold of a blockbuster movie soundtrack recording deal, that (in my eyes) would get the ball rolling for Hayley in America. Thanks again for joining us, xanadu66 i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gifBest wishes from the USA, Joe Hello Joe and thank you for the welcome. Thanks also for the information concerning Hayley's fanbase. If your stats indicate a reduction in her popularity in the UK, they regretably tie in with the results of my enquiries. Nevertheless, the increased interest in France, Spain and Germany is encouraging. Do you know any reason why that should be? Could it be that news of the forthcoming album has been released in those countries, I wonder? May I ask if there is any increase in Italy? Anyway, thanks again. |
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Post by martindn on Feb 5, 2011 12:20:16 GMT
Hi Xanadu,
I regularly monitor the statistics that YouTube provide for my channel, exclusivly Hayley concert videos. These usually show both the US and UK in the top 3 coutries for "popularity" (hits divided by population). At this instant, over the last 2 weeks, UK is in second place and US 4th (Japan is top).
I am currently getting about 170 hits/day, up from around 100 a year ago (I have only added one video in that time). I had a peak of around 500 Hits/Day over the Christmas period, since several of the videos are Christmas songs.
This does not look like a decline in popularity to me. Although I take the point that she needs to be seen more in the mainstream media to become better known. Her TV appearances for example are quite rare, the last time in the UK was I think Boxing Day.
I suspect there will be a significant effort made to promote the new album in the UK and elsewhere. She does need something to sell before it is worthwhile for anyone to promote her, and it has been too long since her last album. So much so that what she needs will be more like a re-launch I suspect.
Martin D
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Post by amptique on Feb 5, 2011 16:40:26 GMT
Greetings Fellow HWIers,
IMHO the best way for Hayley to make her presence known in a country as large and as diverse as the US is to focus exclusively on the demographic group where she has proven appeal. Putting a child day-care center in a retirement community may not be a wise decision.
It appears to me that Hayley's primary demographic is typically male, usually older (50+?), intelligent, a music lover, and one who appreciates things of beauty. Libby's idea of connecting Hayley with the Mormon Tabernacle Choir is an excellent one. Continuing with that theme, many local orchestras have a "Visiting Artist" series that is separate from their normal concert season. Over the past few years I have seen Art Garfunkel and Natalie MacMaster perform with the Kansas City Symphony and both concerts were nearly sold out. I believe a tour connected with local orchestras across the US would be a fantastic way to re-introduce Hayley.
One place in the US where Hayley's demographic group routinely hang out is in Branson, Missouri. The entire city is focused on music and entertainment. The tendency is toward Country music but there is also a strong religious component. Many performers have had very successful careers and never had to leave Branson. Perhaps a good place to start would be the Andy Williams Moon River Theater.
BillR
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Post by Libby on Feb 6, 2011 6:54:02 GMT
Apology accepted, Larry. I'm sorry I took it so personally, but it did seem that you were directing your comment at me. It just annoyed me a little that you seemed to think I was automatically assuming Hayley will pursue a career in the U.S. for certain. I'm not. I just think it's encouraging that she even has a notion of doing so in the future. Whether or not that will or should ever happen remains to be seen. And I don't recall saying that I think America will embrace C/C music. I don't really think so, either. I'm not even sure I would say that I'm a fan of C/C music. I just happen to enjoy several artists who happen to be labeled as classical or C/C. But I became a fan for their voices, as well as many (if not all) of their songs. Many classical songs that Hayley sings I never cared for much before Hayley sang them, such as Ave Maria, O Mio Babbino Caro, and In Trutina. Now, I love Hayley's In Trutina, etc. It's because of her beautiful voice and just the way she delivers the song, not the song itself. However, I do think America could like Hayley herself if they heard her. People who have heard her more "poppy" songs have really liked them (Across the Universe of Time, Dark Waltz, Summer Rain). So your point about her singing pop has some validity. Just as long as it's not "Britney Spears" pop. And country could be okay, too, but I'm just afraid the type of country Hayley gravitates to (folk) would not be as popular as the country I hear on the radio (in passing) these days. However, I'm just not keen on her sticking to only one genre, at least not for her major album releases. Amptique, I think your idea of Hayley performing with orchestras around the country is an excellent one. Let's all contact our local orchestras/symphonies, and request that they invite Hayley!  And I have just sent off my letter to Bandana regarding the Mormon TC and the Japanese skating shows. The fact that Bedlam thought they were good ideas will hopefully help in convincing them. Another good thing that could come of the skating shows is, if she performs on one of the televised ones, it is likely to be posted on youtube. So, fans of the skater(s) who skate to Hayley could easily find the video just by searching for videos of the skater him/herself.  |
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Post by martindn on Feb 6, 2011 15:50:26 GMT
Hi Libby,
It's good to know I'm not the only one who thinks "It's the singer not the song" as far as Hayley is concerned.
I know people who seem to have difficulty getting their heads around that concept.
The problem with pop and country music is that for the most part it does not show off Hayley's voice. Her voice is the thing that makes her special, to limit her use of it by choosing material that is undemanding to sing would not help her I think, as she would then become just another pop/country singer. There are already enough of those, so if you want Hayley to go that way, you should also think about how Hayley could capitalise on her unique talent in that sort of environment.
Classical and folk, as well as sacred music, are areas where the beauty of her exceptional voice can be shown off. I'm not sure she would be outstanding enough as a pop or country singer to make a big splash.
Of course she could write her own stuff, which could show off her voice. But even Eva Cassidy didn't do that well in America did she? So I'm not sure whether a beautiful voice alone can do it there. If Hayley can't capitalise on her talent, then how would she succeed, except amoung a few discerning folk like the ones who frequent this forum?
Martin D
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Joe
Administrator
Supporting Hayley since 2003!
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Post by Joe on Feb 6, 2011 18:19:52 GMT
First of all, I don't think I've had the pleasure of welcoming you to the forum! You really have given us all a most interesting point of discussion. It's very true that Hayley is becoming less popular in the UK, as our stats tell us. Her fanbase has really grown in central Europe (eg. France, Spain, and Germany). The US continues to reflect its support for Hayley. If Hayley's management can get hold of a blockbuster movie soundtrack recording deal, that (in my eyes) would get the ball rolling for Hayley in America. Thanks again for joining us, xanadu66 i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gifBest wishes from the USA, Joe Hello Joe and thank you for the welcome. Thanks also for the information concerning Hayley's fanbase. If your stats indicate a reduction in her popularity in the UK, they regretably tie in with the results of my enquiries. Nevertheless, the increased interest in France, Spain and Germany is encouraging. Do you know any reason why that should be? Could it be that news of the forthcoming album has been released in those countries, I wonder? May I ask if there is any increase in Italy? Anyway, thanks again. Hi Xanadu, There has not been a noticeable increase in forum visitors from Italy. Only one guest of the last 500.  I feel that Hayley's YouTube videos (particularly our HWI channel) contribute in part to an increase in our visitors in central Europe, as well as the search engine Google. Best wishes, Joe |
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Post by Libby on Feb 6, 2011 20:52:32 GMT
The problem with pop and country music is that for the most part it does not show off Hayley's voice. Her voice is the thing that makes her special, to limit her use of it by choosing material that is undemanding to sing would not help her I think, as she would then become just another pop/country singer. There are already enough of those, so if you want Hayley to go that way, you should also think about how Hayley could capitalise on her unique talent in that sort of environment. Classical and folk, as well as sacred music, are areas where the beauty of her exceptional voice can be shown off. I'm not sure she would be outstanding enough as a pop or country singer to make a big splash. Of course she could write her own stuff, which could show off her voice. Martin, I don't really want her to stick to just country, pop, or any other genre, as I said. And I agree that classical is one of the genres that really shows off the beauty of her voice. But classical is kind of a broad spectrum. And do you include all her Irish/Celtic-type songs as classical or folk, too? Because I think her voice sounds at least as good in them as it does in songs like In Trutina, Lascia, etc. And what about songs like Summer Rain and All With You? Those aren't classical or folk, but I actually think Hayley's voice sounds the prettiest and most crystal-clear in all the songs that she wrote for Treasure and Winter Magic. That's because the songs were written for her voice alone. So, in my opinion, her voice shines the most in those songs. These songs do seem to be more on the "light pop" side than classical or folk. And as I said, many American fans I've encountered throughout the internet seem to enjoy her more "poppy" songs like these, and that includes the ones she wrote, like Summer Rain. As for country, Hayley sounds great singing Summerfly, Jolene, and Down to the River, don't you agree? Summerfly and Down to the River are more of a folk country than what is usually played on country stations over here. I don't really find the idea of her singing twangy country songs appealing, nor the rock-style of Carrie Underwood or Shania Twain, nor the pop-country style of Taylor Swift (sorry Elliot). So, that's why I'm not entirely sure about the idea of Hayley "going country". Because I don't think the styles of country music that are popular these days really suit Hayley's style. If Hayley, in her albums following the Ennio Morricone one, really does start including more songs written by herself (and I'm sure she will), and songs like I Know You By Heart, Jolene, etc., I think she might find herself more appealing to the American audience than anyone might think. But I suppose just because she sang them in concert doesn't mean she'll record them. But at one time on Twitter fans (including me!) had a "petition" going for her to record I Know You By Heart, and she did take notice. So I won't rule that one out.  I really would love to hear more Maori folk songs, too. She's written Maori now, so she could probably write her own Maori songs, too. |
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Post by martindn on Feb 6, 2011 22:34:17 GMT
Hi Libby,
Yes, I agree with what you wrote. I do like thse songs you mentioned. When she sings pop songs, she can always add embellishments anyway, listen to what she did with "LOVE LOVE LOVE" for example, a couple of minutes of beautiful vocalisation. Most pop singers wouldn't do that (but there are exceptions).
And her Maori songs, yes, she doesn't make enough of that. I love to hear them. Did you notice the new one she did at Christmas, Te Haranui - absolutely gorgeous!
Perhaps she could find more of them, and she has as you say, already written the lyric to "On the Wings of Time", part Moari, part English. Another beautiful song.
And her voice sounds better on her later albums I agree, but that might be becuse she is developing and improving all the time.
Did you listen to the videos that were made by various people of her Christmas Wishes tour last year? I ask that because, not only is her voice better than I have ever heard it, she has made great strides with her song interpretation too, so much so that I rate most of those performances better than her Winter Magic recordings, made only a year and a half ago. I notice it on songs that she wrote most of all, "All ith You" and "Peace shall come". Not to mention "I'll be home for Christmas", "Have yourself a Merry Little Christmas" and "When a Child is Born", all stunning interpretations. Nicola I know criticised her interpretation, and it is clear she has taken that to heart and worked on it. Hayley has always listened to her critics and tried her best to improve, sometimes with stunning success.
But you are right, I would like to think that songs like the ones you mention could appeal to American audiences. So could Christams songs in season, I have heard it said that Christmas music is much better received in America than in Britain. And Larry is right, I don't understand American audiences, except that I know they are made up of people, human beings, not robots who have to be told what to like, and that beauty like Hayley's is universal. You are either receptive to it or you are not, and I'm sure that a substantial number of Americans, enough for a successful tour I think, would appreciate that. But they have to know who Hayley is first, and that perhaps is the hardest bit.
Martin D
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Post by larryhauck on Feb 7, 2011 0:22:36 GMT
Hi Libby, It's good to know I'm not the only one who thinks "It's the singer not the song" as far as Hayley is concerned. I know people who seem to have difficulty getting their heads around that concept. The problem with pop and country music is that for the most part it does not show off Hayley's voice. Her voice is the thing that makes her special, to limit her use of it by choosing material that is undemanding to sing would not help her I think, as she would then become just another pop/country singer. There are already enough of those, so if you want Hayley to go that way, you should also think about how Hayley could capitalise on her unique talent in that sort of environment. Classical and folk, as well as sacred music, are areas where the beauty of her exceptional voice can be shown off. I'm not sure she would be outstanding enough as a pop or country singer to make a big splash. Of course she could write her own stuff, which could show off her voice. But even Eva Cassidy didn't do that well in America did she? So I'm not sure whether a beautiful voice alone can do it there. If Hayley can't capitalise on her talent, then how would she succeed, except amoung a few discerning folk like the ones who frequent this forum? Martin D Hi Martin I've disagreed with you several times; but this time I have to agree with you. It's the voice that grabs you not the music. Having said that I still think an artist has to make some sacrifices to reach super stardom . Hence to crack new markets you must give them what they want. Larry |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Feb 7, 2011 17:37:52 GMT
Larry,
Not so. Superstars do not follow the pack, they lead it. The trick is not to give the people what they want, it's to make them want what you're giving them.
Do that, and you're a superstar.
***
Working with Morricone will surely open all kinds of doors for Hayley. Anyone who knows the name will surely sit up and pay attention - and that's an awful lot of people. But everything will depend on how well the album is promoted.
For Hayley, her entire career may pivot on this one album. I've no doubt she knows that, too.
But her team are going to have to step up. No more 'La la la the internet does not exist' rubbish. They need to promote this as 'The world's best female singer meets the world's best classical composer', not 'Excuse me? Um. This girl's quite good. If you like the type...' And they need to promote that everywhere.
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It is you who is making the assumptions here, and I do not appreciate your negativitiy in general in these discussions at all.
