Enlarging Hayley's Audience Potential

[grant]

Hi Dave

Being with BT, my default search engine is Yahoo, which has HWI in 7th place, but I've just done a search using Google and HWI are 3rd after the official site and Wikepedia.

Like what it says beneath the HWI entry ...

Hayley Westenra's most comprehensive fansite and most active forum. i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

Best wishes
Grant

[martindn]

Well, I'm going to point us back at the original topic of this thread.
I went to a show last night. I missed the start, since I got delayed at and driving back from Gatwick Airport, but it was Over the Rainbow, the life story of Eva Cassidy.
It was a good show, well worth seeing if you get the chance, and Zoe Tyler was fantastic in the lead role, she has a fabulous and very powerful voice. But Eva, like Hayley, was a girl who loved to sing. She was even less commercially inclined than Hayley, didn't like dressing up, etc. But some of those around her were trying to persuade the music industry to take an interest in someone who could "sing the pants off Whitney and Madonna". But the guy who was invited to listen to her demos was unimpressed. His attitude was that the music business is a business, and the important thing is CATEGORISATION. She cant keep singing a mix of blues, jazz, folk, country and pop. She need to find a direction and stick to it. Then we can get her played on the radio.
This reminds me of someone else I know. But Eva Cassidy actually made it, despite everything. And Hayley is so much more media friendly than Eva was. I would hate to see Hayley restrict herself like that, I love her as she is. But my point is if Eva could make it (unfortunately posthumously in her case) then Hayley can too, despite her diverse styles.

As an aside, I felt that Zoe's voice was too powerful to be Eva Cassidy, more Janis Joplin I thought, then I read that during her Jazz days playing "Blues Alley" Eva too showed immense power. Zoe BTW is a professional voice coach, and had been a judge on two of Andrew Lloyd Webber's TV talent shows. She is an awesome singer.

Martin

[postscript]

Hi Martin.

I think that one word says it all "categorisation'. That is precisely what is wrong with the music industry. They cannot allow an artist to be herself and develop that. Probably too demanding in ability from them which is why they duck out!

Not the only industry run by incompetents!

Peter S.

[stevemacdonald]

Before anyone goes about enlarging Hayley's audience potential, first ask yourself some essential "what if" questions:

• What if by making her more popular she's no longer able to be so accessible?
  
• What if the bigger success leads to more international touring such that she won't have time to perform in the UK except on rare occasion?
  
• What if it also results in HWI being overwhelmed by thousands and thousands of new members?
  
• What if having an enlarged audience causes her career to go into overdrive and introduces the very real possibility of early burnout?
  
• What if having many more fans exposes her to that many more risks?
  
• What if to maintain her higher profile she has to take her music in new directions that may alienate older fans?
  

Still think it's a good idea?

[roger]

Hi Steve,

I think the answer to all those questions is that it is about Hayley and not about us. If enhancing her audience potential increases her popularity and success, and provided that is what she wants, then we are right to do it. It is basically why HWI exists.

Roger

[nicola]

Nov 16, 2009 22:36:43 GMT stevemacdonald said:

Before anyone goes about enlarging Hayley's audience potential, first ask yourself some essential "what if" questions:

• What if by making her more popular she's no longer able to be so accessible?
  
• What if the bigger success leads to more international touring such that she won't have time to perform in the UK except on rare occasion?
  
• What if it also results in HWI being overwhelmed by thousands and thousands of new members?
  
• What if having an enlarged audience causes her career to go into overdrive and introduces the very real possibility of early burnout?
  
• What if having many more fans exposes her to that many more risks?
  
• What if to maintain her higher profile she has to take her music in new directions that may alienate older fans?
  

Still think it's a good idea?

Apart from points 4 and 5, the answer is a big yes.

I'm with Roger. It's about Hayley, not about fans. As soon as artists start catering for fans and not their natural artistic growth, that artist ceases to be an artist and becomes a commodity.

And:

What if the bigger success leads to more international touring such that she won't have time to perform in the UK except on rare occasion?

I don't think any of us are as selfish as that!

[Elliot Kane]

I'm with Roger on this one. Hayley belongs to Hayley, not to us.

As long as she's happy with her career, it's all good. Whether that means she's a worldwide superstar or just known by relatively few people is immaterial.

From my POV, more albums = better and I'd like to see her try her hand at other musical styles (Particularly operetta, as I've mentioned before) and greater popularity usually means more albums and more artistic freedom. But - it's not my life nor my dreams being affected...

[Jillian]

Hi Steve,

I have occassionally wondered the same thing. One of the things that makes following Hayley so special is because her small fanbase makes her accessible.

However, if she was to become significantly more famous, she would be just as (if not more) accessible but in a different way. While personal meet and greet opportunities would be restricted, there would be more TV interviews / performances / news articles etc We'd get that new DVD we're all dying for! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

I probably take this view, because due to being in Australia, none of the personal connection benefits really concern me. But nothing ever happens overnight and if success was to increase it would be gradual and everyone would adjust. We'd just enjoy Hayley being known on a world stage and all reminsce of the 'old days'. All the photos on HWI would certainly be collector's items! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

As for flooding of new members, bring it on! The more contributors, the more discussion and fun!

But let's not get too excited here -- don't want to put the cart before the horse!

[Dave]

Nov 16, 2009 22:36:43 GMT stevemacdonald said:

Before anyone goes about enlarging Hayley's audience potential, first ask yourself some essential "what if" questions:

• What if...
  
• ... etc.
  Still think it's a good idea?

Hi Steve, I bet you asked the same questions way back in 2003 (or at least thought of them)! The short answer is that we'll cross that bridge when we come to it...

But as others have said, it's Hayley's career and if in some small way we can help it to "take off" in a massive way, nearly all of us, perhaps everyone, would be delighted.

Back in 2003, I think the more common question may have been: will Hayley even last long enough to establish a long-term singing career? Well that was over 6 years ago and I think we know the answer, do we not? She has a continuing successful International career and seems almost to be part of the music establishment in her career base, the UK, where she is well known throughout the industry. A niche performer perhaps, not a "superstar", but I think she is solidly entrenched in that niche and who knows, but this may be all she wants. If she wants more and gets it, well I for one will continue to follow and support her.

Dave

[Jillian]

Nov 16, 2009 22:36:43 GMT stevemacdonald said:

Before anyone goes about enlarging Hayley's audience potential, first ask yourself some essential "what if" questions:

• What if by making her more popular she's no longer able to be so accessible?
  
• What if the bigger success leads to more international touring such that she won't have time to perform in the UK except on rare occasion?
  
• What if it also results in HWI being overwhelmed by thousands and thousands of new members?
  
• What if having an enlarged audience causes her career to go into overdrive and introduces the very real possibility of early burnout?
  
• What if having many more fans exposes her to that many more risks?
  
• What if to maintain her higher profile she has to take her music in new directions that may alienate older fans?
  

Still think it's a good idea?

Some more points! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

(2) -- I find concerts so thrilling because it's an event when big acts make it to Brisbane. The once in a lifetime feeling really adds such a buzz.

(4) -- As for Hayley's career going into overdrive -- well, she works so hard as it is, I don't see how she could work harder. What Hayley is doing now is probably more difficult because she works non-stop for a lesser reward. If she was much more famous, she'd be able to see more instanteous rewards for her hard work. It would also mean that she could take longer breaks between tours without having the need to keep making appearances to keep herself in the public eye.

(5) -- As for security concerns, I guess as unpleasant as it sounds, if she needed minders/security they would be arranged for her. Hayley's been given bodyguards in the past when she's been in need of their services.

(6) -- I sometimes try to wonder what style Hayley could pursue that would have a decent chance of alienating her fanbase. That's because she currently sings such a wide variety of songs.

There's the very classical O Ma Babbino Caro to the very poppy Peace Shall Come to the folky Mummer's Dance to Wuthering Heights. I think that if Hayley were to release an album based on anyone of those styles most people would still be pleased. The only thing that would turn people off would be a Charlotte Church 'Crazy Chick' reinvention and I'm sure it'll be a cold day in hell before I can imagine Hayley doing that.

[martindn]

Hi Jilian,

But things do happen overnight. Think Susan Boyle. Think the Beatles even. Hayley is an overnight sensation waiting to happen.

I am with Roger too. If Hayley achieves huge success, and if that is what she wants, she will have my full support even if it means I see her less often, or perhaps can't afford to see her at all. I will rejoice in the knowledge that I knew her before she hit the (really) big time.

But Hayley is Hayley, she is her own person. But that being said, I cannot imagine that she would abandon her loyal fans, those of us that believed in her from the moment we first became aware of her existence.

If HWI had a million members, we might have to restructure things a bit. But Hayley, I'm sure, would not foget. She would cope with it in her own way. And I would wish her well.

Martin

[Jillian]

Nov 16, 2009 23:15:16 GMT Dave said:

Back in 2003, I think the more common question may have been: will Hayley even last long enough to establish a long-term singing career? Well that was over 6 years ago and I think we know the answer, do we not? She has a continuing successful International career and seems almost to be part of the music establishment in her career base, the UK, where she is well known throughout the industry. A niche performer perhaps, not a "superstar", but I think she is solidly entrenched in that niche and who knows, but this may be all she wants.

Dave

Hi Dave,

I have wondered that. While I'm sure every performer out there would quietly love to be a superstar, I do think that Hayley is content where she is -- I've never got the impression that she's dissatisfied with her lot. But at the same time, she does work extremely hard on her music and doing as much as she can.

So, I think she's not unhappy with her current status, but there's no way she's prepared to let herself fade into the background.

In a way, Hayley currently has the best of both worlds at the moment. She has the ability to turn attention on her on and off like a switch. She can turn up to concerts and be greeted by fans, have her picture taken, perform occasionally and go on TV and to premieres. But at the same time, when she goes home she's just just another anonymous person and can do as she pleases without intrusion. She can go out and live her life without having to worry that it will enter the public domain.


Hi Martin,

I suppose they do -- one just needs a platform. I've always imagined that if Hayley was to reach significant fame it would be a slow burn job -- exposure somewhere and then gradual increase in fame by word of mouth etc.


But it happened in Taiwan, didn't it?

[Libby]

Nov 16, 2009 22:36:43 GMT stevemacdonald said:

Before anyone goes about enlarging Hayley's audience potential, first ask yourself some essential "what if" questions:

• What if the bigger success leads to more international touring such that she won't have time to perform in the UK except on rare occasion?
  
• What if it also results in HWI being overwhelmed by thousands and thousands of new members?
  
  

Still think it's a good idea?

Steve, do you actually think those 2 incidents would be a bad thing?

I would love her to do more international touring, because that would mean she would come over here once in a while! As for the UK, I think they've had their fair share for quite some time. It won't kill them to share her once in a while! However, I think it'll be a long time before her UK appearances would be "rare", so I don't think they need to worry yet.
Famous artists like Josh Groban only tour after they release an album, and in between albums only do occasional appearances. Each region gets their fair share of the artist, and then they get to relax a little. However, I doubt Hayley will be THAT famous anytime soon. As I often say, if she could just be as famous as someone like Sarah Brightman, that would be good enough for me.

Just because thousands of new members join doesn't mean they'd all post all the time. And it would just mean lots of people love Hayley! Is that not a good thing?

[larryhauck]

Nov 20, 2009 21:12:13 GMT Libby said:

Nov 16, 2009 22:36:43 GMT stevemacdonald said:

Before anyone goes about enlarging Hayley's audience potential, first ask yourself some essential "what if" questions:

• What if the bigger success leads to more international touring such that she won't have time to perform in the UK except on rare occasion?
  
• What if it also results in HWI being overwhelmed by thousands and thousands of new members?
  
  

Still think it's a good idea?

Steve, do you actually think those 2 incidents would be a bad thing?

I would love her to do more international touring, because that would mean she would come over here once in a while! As for the UK, I think they've had their fair share for quite some time. It won't kill them to share her once in a while! However, I think it'll be a long time before her UK appearances would be "rare", so I don't think they need to worry yet.
Famous artists like Josh Groban only tour after they release an album, and in between albums only do occasional appearances. Each region gets their fair share of the artist, and then they get to relax a little. However, I doubt Hayley will be THAT famous anytime soon. As I often say, if she could just be as famous as someone like Sarah Brightman, that would be good enough for me.

Just because thousands of new members join doesn't mean they'd all post all the time. And it would just mean lots of people love Hayley! Is that not a good thing?

Hi Libby
Very well put. Although I can't say I blame the Brits for wanting to keep her there. What would really expand Hayley's audience is if she had a CD make a big hit in the U S. Apparently Hayley has now put her roots down in England so I think she would still make more appearances there than anywhere else.
I'm sure Hayley will tire of her hectic touring schedule someday and want to have more time to herself.
And God forbid she abandon the U K. Grant would be traumatized beyond belief.

Larry

[Libby]

Well, he's been to enough Hayley concerts to fill up a lifetime, so he shouldn't get too upset. Although he might go through withdrawal. There's no danger of that happening for an extremely long time. Hayley will be around for a long time.