Dave
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HWI Admin
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Post by Dave on Sept 30, 2010 22:42:21 GMT
Phew! Actually, I said that even when weighted for population, the USA wins out, on hits on my YouTube Channel, and the HWI one too. Hi Martin D, That is incorrect, regarding the HWI Youtube channel "weighted for population" as you put it. In Regional Popularity (as YT call it) the top five are currently (last 2 weeks): Taiwan 0.76 New Zealand 0.49 United Kingdom 0.37 United States 0.30 Japan 0.22 That's pretty well how it always is (though Taiwan's had a boost this month, of course). Nevertheless, the US still shows up strongly on this particular measure. Dave |
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Post by martindn on Oct 1, 2010 23:00:30 GMT
Sorry Dave, my brian is playing tricks again.
And on my channel too, USA is not always top when weighted, but I think is when unweighted. At other times UK, NZ have been ahead in the weighted list. But I think the US is there, even weighted, more often than the others.
I have also seem a considerable increase in hits in the last few months. This might indicate that Hayley is still winning more and more new fans, despite no new album and few live performances this year.
Martin D
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Post by milewalker on Oct 2, 2010 0:27:04 GMT
Sorry Dave, my brian is playing tricks again. And on my channel too, USA is not always top when weighted, but I think is when unweighted. At other times UK, NZ have been ahead in the weighted list. But I think the US is there, even weighted, more often than the others. I have also seem a considerable increase in hits in the last few months. This might indicate that Hayley is still winning more and more new fans, despite no new album and few live performances this year. Martin D Alternatively, the lack of material, particularly visuals, is sending people to YouTube to see Hayley, I can speak from experience here - whoever has the high quality Pie Jesu video up from her concert In NZ with Watson lo these many years ago can count on me visiting twice a week. I am pretty sure I am not the only one. Seriously, how many sources are there where an American can "See" Hayley? PS - If my interpretation of Dave's numbers is correct, and they are representative, Hayley has almost no chance of launching any kind of American tour under the present circumstances. She might pull off a one off in LA or NY |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Oct 2, 2010 1:11:23 GMT
The main problem with using internet stats to draw conclusions as to the size of an artist's fanbase (And one which I'm fairly sure no-one has mentioned, yet) is that the web is by no means universally accessible. The number of households in any given country with web access can vary very sharply, but even in developed nations there can be quite a gap. There's quite a fascinating table here, for the curiousInterestingly, North America has by far the largest number of web users as a % of population, which MAY help explain some of the YouTube stats. |
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Dave
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HWI Admin
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Post by Dave on Oct 2, 2010 2:13:03 GMT
...The number of households in any given country with web access can vary very sharply, but even in developed nations there can be quite a gap. There's quite a fascinating table here, for the curiousInterestingly, North America has by far the largest number of web users as a % of population, which MAY help explain some of the YouTube stats. Yes indeed, although YouTube attempts to address this problem in its "Relative Popularity" statistics. The figures may also be skewed by AOL, because wherever in the World you connect from, the IP address will be that of an AOL proxy server in Virginia. Dave |
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Post by Libby on Oct 2, 2010 5:32:04 GMT
What about all the Celtic Woman fans who attend concerts every year? I'd be very interested to know how many of them became fans of Hayley because of CW, or at the very least enjoyed her singing while she was there. You would think if they know who she is and are fans, they would pay to see Hayley if she came! And CW tours so many cities throughout the U.S. I realize it's probably not possible for a very significant tour, but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible to do at least a small tour. By that I mean more than just LA & NY. Where would that leave the midwesterners and southerners? I don't really want to go all the way down to LA, but I will if that's the only thing. I am hoping for her to come to Canada, too, hopefully B.C.
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Post by tracy on Oct 2, 2010 13:21:04 GMT
I'm beginning to think there should be a thread why Hayley isn't popular in Australia but I guess the answer to that is simply publicity because she is very easy to get hooked on once you hear her sing.
much love Tracy
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Post by stevemacdonald on Oct 2, 2010 15:14:11 GMT
What about all the Celtic Woman fans who attend concerts every year? I'd be very interested to know how many of them became fans of Hayley because of CW, or at the very least enjoyed her singing while she was there. .... Interesting question. Hayley's appeal as one of the CW's was solid enough and has won her an independent following as we well know from the additional HWI members who discovered her that way. However, her involvement in CW might have had the larger effect of submerging her identity into the group rather than spotlighting it. Indeed, she did a few solo numbers, but then so did each of the others, and thus far no one has become a "breakout" star. |
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Post by milewalker on Oct 2, 2010 20:04:26 GMT
I think the fans who go to the show are by and large fans of the group, and for the most part dont identify with any of the invidual artists. People come and go, and there is much wailing and knashing of teeth when that occurs, but folks keep going to those concerts, while Meav et al cant seem to get a solo career off the ground. Celtic Woman is a show. Josh Groban does shows. Hayley and the others as soloists do concerts - a very different thing.
Libby, my understanding is that Hayley can do reasonably well in the UK on tour - but only in venues which average around 700 - maybe less. I am not familiar enough with the geographic of the UK, but my guess is that 12- 15 concerts pretty much covers a great amount of the available territory. Dave woud know this better than I, but I would bet that most people in the UK wouldnt have to travel more than say 100 miles to see one concert on a hypothetical tour.
Assurming that Hayley has a fan base in the UK comparable in numbers....This base is spread over 40 times the area which means that once you get outside of a couple of big cities, she would have to draw from a much larger area to get the same attendance at a concert, I figured it might work in the biggest cities - perhaps add Boston to that as well, because limited advertising can reach a large enough group of people. If she did a concert at Powell Hall in St Louis, I suspect she would have to draw people from a much larger area, say Milwaukee to Nashville to fill the house.
The revenues on a 700 seat concert are rather modest, There may be no way to get word of the concert out without spending too much to advertise it. This actually remains a problem even if I am underestimating the number of fans she has in the US.
Hayley did a one off concert in Chicago a few years back. She only filled about half the house (I think it was larger than her typical gig)- and I would bet you that most fans outside of Chicago will tell you that they didnt even know she was there. I live in St Louis. I didnt know she was there until I heard about it about a month after the concert, There was probably no way to advertise in more than the city the concert took place in.
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Post by martindn on Oct 2, 2010 21:13:02 GMT
Hi Jon,
I think 700 is a bit of an underestimate for UK. The Barbican seats around 2000, as do several other venues she has sold out, and that is probably about the max for a normal concert here. Buxton Opera House is about 800, and was sold out. But I always feel that Hayley enjoys the smaller venues.
And yes, on any tour there are nearly always several concerts with 100 miles of where I live, but I live close to the geographical centre of the country, and is almost exactly our distance from London. If you lived in say western Cornwall, or Northern Scotland, you would be lucky to find any concert within that distance.
For example, of the four shows on her Christmas tour this year, three are within a hundred miles, the nearest, Birmingham, being just over 40 miles.
So in the UK any show in London or the Midlands, or even the north of England will be within easy reach of most of our population. That is not true in large countires like the USA or Australia, and that is a problem I agree.
Yes, I know there are people I meet at many of her concerts here who have travelled from continental Europe, or the USA, occasionally even Australia or New Zealand, but they are devoted fans, not casual concertgoers. Not everyone, not even every devoted fan can afford the time or money to do that.
So really, in the US she has to go for the big cities. NY and LA must be the starting points, and it must be publicised. And even then, some people don't understand the distances.
For example, I can tell you a tale of one of our salesmen who was visitng a client in Vancouver, and his boss rang him to suggest he stopped in to see someone in NY on his way back to the UK. The reply was "why don't you go, you are nearer to NY than I am".
Martin D
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Post by Libby on Oct 3, 2010 6:26:23 GMT
Hayley's appeal as one of the CW's was solid enough and has won her an independent following as we well know from the additional HWI members who discovered her that way. However, her involvement in CW might have had the larger effect of submerging her identity into the group rather than spotlighting it. Indeed, she did a few solo numbers, but then so did each of the others, and thus far no one has become a "breakout" star. Don't forget about the official forum. Many members are from the U.S., and discovered her through CW. No one has become a breakout star? I thought Hayley already was one, at least for a while. |
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Post by milewalker on Oct 3, 2010 13:08:44 GMT
Hayley's appeal as one of the CW's was solid enough and has won her an independent following as we well know from the additional HWI members who discovered her that way. However, her involvement in CW might have had the larger effect of submerging her identity into the group rather than spotlighting it. Indeed, she did a few solo numbers, but then so did each of the others, and thus far no one has become a "breakout" star. Don't forget about the official forum. Many members are from the U.S., and discovered her through CW. No one has become a breakout star? I thought Hayley already was one, at least for a while. Hayley is different in that she was already a UK star, perhaps trying to breakout in America. CW didnt do a whole lot for her per se in the short term anyway. It may have even cost her overall sales. Besides, if you add up all of the people who saw a show which included Hayley - well if memory serves me correctly, it doesn amount to 100,000 people. How many of those would go on to buy an album or see a oncert? It is all good of course, but it just isnt enough to help much. Hayley needs a perhaps million more fans in the US |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Oct 3, 2010 15:12:51 GMT
I think Jon is right on the difficulty of being seen as part of a group and then going solo. You only have to look at the huge number of very successful groups whose members all seem to vanish without trace once they split and go solo. Those who find solo success are the minority, yet a reformed group will likely be as popular as ever.
He's also right that Hayley was already a known and successful solo artist before CW. Don't forget that Pure was the fastest selling Classical debut in the UK in the last century and that was long before CW.
There is a significant difference between being seen as a solo singer who has temporarily joined up with a group and being seen as part of a group.
Not saying CW did nothing to help boost her career, but I don't think any positive effect it did have could really be considered major, be it in the US or anywhere else.
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Post by mihizawi on Oct 3, 2010 17:12:00 GMT
I'm beginning to think there should be a thread why Hayley isn't popular in Australia but I guess the answer to that is simply publicity because she is very easy to get hooked on once you hear her sing. much love Tracy Tracy... Indeed a "Why isn't Hayley popular in Spain?" or in any other country would be nice too... For me, there are two reasons that kind of justify this post being american-centered: the fact that US is a big country and a big market that could benefit Hayley if she wanted these benefits, and the fact that we have a good bunch of active american members here (but then again, if weighted with population, I think there would be more australian active members than US... but, oh, well)... In the end, I am sure it wouldn't be that bad if we wanted to discuss other countries here, but, as you said, the main reason for most of them would be the same: lack of promotion. Michal |
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Post by milewalker on Oct 3, 2010 18:26:30 GMT
A couple of points at random which I do not believe were brought up in this thread (though they certainly were on some of the earlier ones).....
As the thread about the Macy's parade hints, a massive attempt was made in 2004 to promote Hayley in the US. This involved spending several months here, and likely several million dollars. In fact, the culmination of this was the concert DVD, which concert was seen on American national television (PBS) For whatever reason, the attempt largely failed as no Hayley album has ever cracked the Billboard top 50. Her promotional issues in the US now are, in my view simply a case of "Once bitten, twice shy"
I would not be surprised if Hayley actually did have a potential large fan base in Austrailia. It might have something to do with geographic proximity and/or cultural similarity.
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