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Post by ironman on Dec 28, 2008 15:10:31 GMT
Hayley doesnt seem to be very well known here in the US but in other countries seems to be a super star. I was just wondering why she never became popular in the US?
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Post by postscript on Dec 28, 2008 16:04:05 GMT
Well, Hi Ironman and welcome. From which part of the states do you hale? You pose a question which we might wonder if you could not suggest an answer. You clearly came across Hayley in conjunction with Celtic Woman so clearly her rating in your knowledge is as a secondary thought. We certainly hoped that her associations with Celtic Woman and Il Divo would help to promote her. There is a background in that what might have been a major launch through a film release failed to materialise but beyond that we are all stumped as to why she hasn't managed the major US break through we all hoped.
Peter S.
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Post by roger on Dec 28, 2008 16:17:17 GMT
Well, Hi Ironman and welcome. From which part of the states do you hale? Hi Peter, I think you'll find that Ironman has introduced himself on the welcome board in a newly created thread entitled Hello from Michigan. I think that could serve as something of a clue!  Hello Ironman and welcome. You pose a very simple question to which there is no easy answer. Over the past five years, Hayley has spend a significant amount of time in the US either on tour or doing promotional work. Sadly, it hasn't worked. Not on a big scale, anyway. I believe one of the reasons is the sheer size of the place. No artist would seriously expect to conquer the whole of mainland Europe in one go and I am sure the same could be said of the US. Nevertheless, she has made very serious attempts and I am sure will go on doing so. In theory, it might help if she spent a year there but, to do that, she would have to turn her back on the rest of the world including those countries in which she is reasonably well established. But with no guarantee of success, she cannot afford to take that risk. Another way might be to capitolise on her success here and elsewhere in the hope that news spreads to the US in a big way. If that happens, the demands will start to pour in. Some of our members have written to US radio and television companies to request that Hayley appears on certain shows. That is commendable but one or two such requests are virtually futile. If you can get at least 10,000 people to do the same, it might make a difference. Until then, I regret we can only hope. Roger |
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Post by larryhauck on Dec 28, 2008 16:22:15 GMT
Hi Ironman,
Welcome to HWI. You've broached a topic that has much discussion on this website.
Go to the thread sure fire ways for Hayley to make it in the U S and you can read many opinions.
Larry
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Post by alantie on May 6, 2009 21:45:45 GMT
We seem to have gotten off topic on some of our posts in the "Hayley's Fashion" thread. I've tried to quote several posts from that thread in here so we can have this discussion where it belongs. Ricard's little "off-topic" emoticon was a big help here. Although I am not of the faith that the Chrystal Cathedral espouses I find myself watching their programming to see the wonderful talent they display. Hayley is to be commended for being asked to be on their broadcast. But I am puzzled why after all the U S appearances she has made in the last few years she has not been embraced by American audiences. It makes me wonder if Americans have lost their ability to recognize real talent. Such a pity. Larry  Hi Jillian, Actually that is interesting because it more than reflects the number of US members of this forum as opposed to those in the UK. Of the 350 members, 127 of them are in the US and only 107 are in the UK. If other YT videos are being seen by large numbers of US viewers, it might start to suggest that there is more support for Hayley on the other side of the pond than we realised. Roger Keep in mind that there are two obvious factors which skew those numbers . First, the US has five times as many people as the UK. Second, there are few alternative outlets for information about Hayley. You wont find much about her in print over here. Therefore any person in the US who wants informatin about her almost has to go through one of the websites, or YouTube of course. I have no doubt that Hayley has almost as many fans here in sheer numbers as she does in the UK. For reasons of simple logistics this does her very little good, because except for possibly New York there arent enough of them in any one place to support a concert big enough to come over and do. Larry, I dont think that it has a lot to do with better or worse taste in America. The simple size of the country as opposed to elsewhere suggests that mass media is the only way to reach large audiences here. This produces a catch 22 for an artist like Hayley. It wont be featured on mass media unless it is commercially viable, and it isnt commercially viable in large part because you cant find it on mass media. Many things that people decry about pop culture in America stem, in my opinion, from this simple contradiction. For example, a lot of pop music is very derivative of itself, because there is an understandable reluctance on the part of both artists and the industry at large to deviate from a successful formula. Jon PS I would try to bring this back on topic, but feel singularly unqualified to discuss fashion Jon, I'm sorry but I don't agree with you. Albeit the U S is five times the size of the U K tastes are localized in America. The South has country the west has rap, etc. and the Midwest has an eclectic mix. In my opinion I still say that the U S is not as appreciative of good music as Europe is. I think it's a simple case of what is hyped more that hat is good. I won't argue the point that classical crossover would not be popular here. Most in the U S don't even know what it is. I cite the case of Streisand. She rose up from nowhere and became a superstar. The main thing an artist must do her is to appeal to a segment i.e. pop or country than spread out to other segments. It's hard but not impossible. The main ingredient in the strategy is promotion. Larry What's more Roger, my feeling is that the official forum is even more US dominated than this one, although I have no figures to support that, just a gut feeling. I would be interested if someone who knows could provide actual figures. I don't know the figures (BobC might know), but I do know that almost every new member recently is from the U.S. Many of them discovered her through CW, and also youtube. Two of the newest members discovered her because of Susan Boyle; they found Hayley's I Dreamed a Dream and liked her better!  Most of the members who actually post are from the U.S., too. Actually, I can only think of one person from the UK who posts regularly. Someone from NZ posts often, too. I find it surprising that there are more US members on this forum than UK, because most of you who post are from the UK. So, if there are so many from the US, why don't they post? Well, BobC says we have 400 members on the official forum, but it's lucky if more than 4 people post in a single day. So, I wonder where they all are, too (well, some of you are here). Larry, what I said about the people who discovered Hayley from the Capitol 4th show, the Crystal Cathedral, and the Dance show, proves that if people have the opportunity to hear Hayley, they will love her! Don't be so hard on us American's! They can't like something they can't hear! BTW, American Idol is not horrible. Not all the new singers come from there, and half of them don't become all that famous anyway. Most of the winners are nicer, more humble people than the stars who are found the usual way. Jordin Sparks is a very sweet girl, and David Cook was very humble throughout the whole show. His brother just died of brain cancer.  Neal E. Boyd, who won last year's America's Got Talent, was a classical crossover singer. America voted for him, so again, don't be so hard on our tastes! Don't worry, I'll stop with this off-topic stuff now. I like that shiny, metallic dress with the flowery stuff at the top. I don't like the chocolate dress, it's way too short. Whew, I'm on topic after all. First, I should say that I'm really glad that this thread exists because I love seeing all these pictures of Hayley in her various dresses/outfits. I can't say I like every single one, but in general I think Hayley's sense of fashion is wonderful. Now for the off topic part. In response to Libby, the lack of activity from US members may be due to our lack of knowledge of Hayley's going-ons. HWI for me is the place where I actually figure out when concerts are or when new albums are coming out and what not. Additionally, I, problaby like many US members, have never been to one of Hayley's concerts and find it hard to relate or say anything about them in those threads. Furthermore (yes, there's a lot of these points), I currently cannot spend 50+ dollars to buy CDs, which is the current running cost of the new Japanese album, meaning there really is no way for me to analyze or add to the discussion about it. By the time I buy the CD, the discussion about this album will be long done and over with. Yes, I know I can post in threads such as this one, but other people usually say what I say and I just let it go. Maybe we're just not as devoted fans as the UK members are (maybe this has something to do with the music preference of the US), but I don't how accurate that is. She's the first singer that I've truly liked and have wanted to own all her songs, and I barely post!  *adds because Larry posted before I got mine up XD* I have to agree with Larry about the music preferences that can perhaps be described as "less cultured". One of putting it is, classical music is something that you would play in a concert for dignitaries of various countries. I can't imagine a rap concert being given when say, the Queen of England visits the US or when the President of the US visits the UK. At age 70 I have lived through some great musical eras in the U S. I just don't think the present one is up to par. I do agree with your last statement. Just one glimpse at the Grammy awards show this year, and I was absolutely digsusted with the music industry here these days. It was just awful. My only interest in the show was because Josh Groban was nominated for something, but I knew they wouldn't show that category, so I didn't watch it. Alantie, the Japanese albums are available at CDJapan for a better price than Amazon, because Amazon has to import them. It's still expensive, but it's worth it to me. I'm an American fan, and I feel very well-informed, mostly because of this forum. I'm usually the one on the official forum providing all the information there, mostly what I find here, but sometimes things I found myself. I've never been to a concert of Hayley's either, but I still reply to many of the posts. Usually I respond in regards to the photos, or about the songs she sang, or something. I love to see what she's wearing, too. Just because I can't go doesn't mean I'm not interested in the shows or don't have anything to say about them. I'm not sure I'm really buying your reasons in regards to all Hayley's other American fans. It's not that hard to do a search in google or youtube, and find all sorts of sfuff, unless you don't have a computer, or something. Hi Alantie, Welcome to the forum. It is perplexing to not be able to join some of the discussions with our U K friends about Hayley's concerts. However, we can keep hoping that someday she will be able to tour the U S on a yearly basis. Larry And to add some more of my own thoughts...I must have gotten my prices mixed up, because I just took a look at CDJapan and it's definitely lower than I thought it was. Amazon I don't think even has her latest album yet, though I don't ever check Amazon anymore because of the price. I think I wasn't clear when I said that information her her is hard to find. I guess what I meant was that you don't see news about Hayley in the normal mainstream US media and one wouldn't normally find information about her just randomly surfing around US sites. For example, I don't listen to rap, yet I've heard of Lil Bow Wow before just by randomly watching things on TV or reading things on the Internet. As for Hayley, I've told a handful of friends about her and not a single one had remotely heard of her before. I'll admit, though, that I don't exactly buy everything I'm saying either, because with some of it, I can't see why we in the US would react differently than fans in, say, the UK or NZ. If nothing else though, Libby, you've inspired me to post more. And agreed, Larry, I hope one day her record label finds it worthwhile for her to tour here again. |
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Post by roger on May 6, 2009 22:05:47 GMT
I can't see why we in the US would react differently than fans in, say, the UK or NZ. Hi Alantie, You may well be right there but it isn't the population at large who initially need to be persuaded. It is the programme makers and producers and the magazine editors, etc. If only they could be persuaded to give her some airplay now and then and some press coverage, then the casual browser or TV channel hopper would stand a much greater chance of discovering her. It stands to reason that a proportion of them would then realise that she is worth hearing. If nothing else though, Libby, you've inspired me to post more. I'm please to hear it! Roger |
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Post by martindn on May 6, 2009 22:56:08 GMT
Hi Atlantie,
It isn't much different in the UK. Hayley gets very little exposure in the mainstream media. Classical music station Classic FM occasionally plays her, but will only do so while her music conforms to the criteria to be included in the classical album chart. This is one reason why her UK albums have different track listings to the US versions. Is she goes non-classical with er next album, maybe it will get no exposure at all, which is what happened to Katherine Jenkins with Rejoice.
Yet despite this, her concerts usually sell out over hear, often months in advance. She is clearly well known and loved, but not by most of the media it seems.
Martin
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Jillian
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Post by Jillian on May 6, 2009 23:45:21 GMT
Interesting you should mention Katherine. I've always noticed that she gets more British media attention than Hayley. With the Daily Mail, it's always Katherine who's photos are first. Is it because she displays a more visually exciting image or is it because she's more popular? As for the other things you mention, I can't but wonder if the big factor is money. I remember reading that when Celine Dion first came to Australia, the big boss of Sony (or the like) boasted at her launch party, 'with the amount of backing we're giving Celine, there's no way that she won't become a huge star'. Does this come down to money? To get Hayley into the broader spotlight, would Decca initially have to cough up money to get her there? Of course Hayley would then need to stay there by her own efforts, but that's another thing entirely... There's all sorts of opinions on this. I know that when U2 was asked about how to make it big, they said that what you most needed was a song -- a great song. They said you can do as many performances as you want, but unless you've got a show stopper of a song to back it up, you're wasting your time. I think that Hayley had 'the song' with Pokarekare Ana -- it was something completely different and showcased her voice marvelously. I know that I'm a broken record here, but I think that the music should be the first focus. If everything gets put into making an exciting next record, maybe good things will follow. At any rate, it's the best place to start. |
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Post by larryhauck on May 7, 2009 0:06:31 GMT
Hi Jillian,
I think you're on the right track. After Pure was released Hayley did several appearances in the U S. It has been my opinion that she was not properly promoted then. I know I will get a lot of flak for saying that; but I as everyone is entitled to my opinion.
In the U S it takes a lot of money to promote. However an artist must show a degree of flexibility to succeed here. Perhaps some day that will happen.
Larry
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Jillian
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Post by Jillian on May 7, 2009 0:12:38 GMT
I've heard that in order to 'crack' the US you need to move there for at least a year, put in a ton of money and then start to painstakingly tour from top to bottom, doing depressingly small gigs for almost no money and then cross your fingers.
I've heard that the radio is really fractured over there. Not like Australia where there's only few big radio networks and if you can get on them you've covered the entire country. Singers have to go into a million radio stations, put on a free pizza lunch and perform to the staff to try to get airplay.
A lot of work. Apparently Robbie Williams has completely given up on cracking the US because it's too much work -- and look what a big star he is!
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Post by graemek on May 7, 2009 11:57:07 GMT
Hmmm, I've read so many of these discussions. Hayley seems to be running quite nicely without being "owned" by the USA music machine. I'm almost glad she isn't part of it....probably spares her a lot of unwelcome troubles. Graeme  |
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Post by stevemacdonald on May 7, 2009 18:12:30 GMT
Hmmm, I've read so many of these discussions. Hayley seems to be running quite nicely without being "owned" by the USA music machine. I'm almost glad she isn't part of it....probably spares her a lot of unwelcome troubles. Yeah, it's better that Hayley isn't huge in the states. And I say that as someone who at one time wished her career would really take off here. What I've come to learn and accept is that her singing is very elite and works best in places that nurture its long-term development. Major success in the US would place massive demands on her and take a significant toll on her energy and spirit. Burnout would be the likely story within a few years. Instead she has been developing her fine voice in an older culture that doesn't subject her to the harsh market pressures. She has tons more freedom this way and it shows in her overall radiance, even if we, on my side of the pond, don't get to see it firsthand very much. I can live with that because I know it's right for Hayley. |
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Post by alantie on May 7, 2009 21:26:03 GMT
To some extent I agree that I wouldn't ever want Hayley to become a runaway success here for the reasons that Steve and Graeme mentioned. I wish, though, that she were well known enough for her to warrant some sort of tour or at least some sort of performance here again.
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Post by grant on May 7, 2009 23:42:05 GMT
Hi Alantie
I'm sure Hayley will visit the States again, but I suspect it will be by request for a specific purpose. The problem for Hayley touring over there would boil down to where to stage the concerts. Hayley's tours usually consist of up to 12/15 concerts over a period of say three weeks - that wouldn't cover a quarter of the States and the travel/promotion costs would be enormous - it just wouldn't be viable.
I agree totally with Steve's view, and have a great respect for him for voicing it, as I'm sure it is very hard for Hayley's US fans to keep up their support not knowing when or if you will ever get to see her perform live.
I just hope that one day you do!
Best wishes
Grant
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Post by graemek on May 8, 2009 0:02:29 GMT
Hi Steve, Alantie & Grant. Steve M said: My sentiments exactly Steve. She's very special....ie unique. I was expecting somebody to jump on my head for what I said but I've had that same reservation all along. I don't expect Hayley to come to Australia in a hurry but she's sort of accessible from here when she visits NZ. Much like East Coast USA really. Graeme |
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Most of the members who actually post are from the U.S., too. Actually, I can only think of one person from the UK who posts regularly. Someone from NZ posts often, too.
