Why isnt Hayley popular in the US?

[stevemacdonald]

The most basic reason Hayley's popularity in America is non-existent is that she's too high quality for this market. It would be like trying to market crème brûlée at McDonald's. Give us watered-down, auto-tuned, manufactured talents to worship and we'll show up in droves at their concerts. Put something ethereal and heavenly out there and we'll stay away in droves. It's that simple.

Also, America really doesn't want great singers anymore. We've been there, done that with Frank Sinatra, Barbra Streisand and Whitney Houston. That's all our appetites can handle for a few hundred more years. Bringing Hayley into the mix would be too paradigm shifting.

Truth is, Hayley would've been the cat's meow if she had arrived back in the '50s. Frank would have loved her. Elvis would've married her. Schools would be named after her. Maybe the pendulum will swing that way again and maybe there's a golden opportunity awaiting her in a movie role (Used to be that singers became actors all the time).

[Libby]

Sept 23, 2010 4:26:50 GMT stevemacdonald said:

Put something ethereal and heavenly out there and we'll stay away in droves. It's that simple.

Elvis would've married her.

But would Hayley have married him?



What about Celtic Woman? They perform 3 whole shows in Seattle when they're here! Of course, they play in a theater, whereas some places they play in larger arenas. In that case, I don't think you're entirely right about people staying away in droves. But then, people have already seen the show on TV and want to see it live, so maybe that's what the extra draw is.

[Elliot Kane]

Steve,

You may be lacking the likes of Howard Keel or Mario Lanza, but you do have Nathan Gunn. That's got to count for something.

As far as the girls are concerned, Carrie Underwood and Kelly Clarkson are not exactly terrible when it comes to singing, and that's just a couple of the popular ones.

Lack of quality is not the problem, seen from this side of the Pond. To a large extent, I think it's just that record execs have certain fixed ideas of what will sell (And don't they, everywhere?), meaning they only put the promotion into those kinds of acts. People cannot appreciate what they never get to hear.

I'd bet that if you asked most Americans what they thought of Hayley, they would ask "Who?" That's not a lack of interest in good singing, it's a lack of knowledge that good singers exist. Not the same thing!

[larryhauck]

Sept 23, 2010 4:26:50 GMT stevemacdonald said:

The most basic reason Hayley's popularity in America is non-existent is that she's too high quality for this market. It would be like trying to market crème brûlée at McDonald's. Give us watered-down, auto-tuned, manufactured talents to worship and we'll show up in droves at their concerts. Put something ethereal and heavenly out there and we'll stay away in droves. It's that simple.

Also, America really doesn't want great singers anymore. We've been there, done that with Frank Sinatra, Barbra Streisand and Whitney Houston. That's all our appetites can handle for a few hundred more years. Bringing Hayley into the mix would be too paradigm shifting.

Truth is, Hayley would've been the cat's meow if she had arrived back in the '50s. Frank would have loved her. Elvis would've married her. Schools would be named after her. Maybe the pendulum will swing that way again and maybe there's a golden opportunity awaiting her in a movie role (Used to be that singers became actors all the time).

Hi Steve,
Actually I think that America is starved for some good music and artists. A few years ago Rod Stewart made four albums of the old standards and they flew off the shelves. We have a local college that has a yearly series that features the big bands and usually a female vocalist. The seats are filled.
Michael Buble and Harry Connick Jr play to sellout audiences. I think the reason that there are no entertainers like Hayley and others are here is that it takes money to tour the U S and the record companies don't want to risk it.
I almost forgot Tony Bennett. Who will replace him when he retires. Also the American promoters are also reticent to bring in these entertainers.
But things are cyclical and perhaps our music will come back someday.

Larry

[martindn]

Hi Elliot,

Well, I have come across British artists that work hard to manufacture an image, and these if I think about it, are the ones that have made it in the US. Usually the image involves drugs busts, falling out of bars, sex etc. How much of it is really the way the person is, and how much of it is a deliberate ploy to get free publicity is debatable. We even have celebrities of little or no discernable talent who have become famous in exactly that way, often by marrying or otherwise being associated with someone who is famous.

Strangely enough, I would have to say through that with Hayley I do buy into the complete package, perhaps because she is a refreshing change from the repellent behaviour and blatent publicity seeking that so many celebrities indulge in. Also perhaps because I have met her a few times, and can see that she is a thoroughly decent human being.

Perhaps what that means is that Hayley has chosen the right base, a country where she will be appreciated for her music without having to compromise her principles to gain publicity, and where she can still maintain some kind of privacy.

For example, most young female celebrities are expected to use sex as a means to promote themselves. I understand some pressure was put on Hayley to do the same, but she wasn't comfortable with that sort of image, so didn't go along that road. I think her real fans support her in that, and admire the fact that Hayley is prepared to stick to her guns and do things her own way.

If what you say is true, this might make it even more difficult for Hayley to crack America, since she doesn't seem too keen on baring her soul to the media, and doesn't conform to the sort of flamboyant, some would say vulgar, image that seems to be expected of young female celebrities over there.

But then again, she does have quite a lot of fans over there, many of whom are HWI members, so there must be potential for her to have some measure of success at least. I can't see her being the next Lady Gaga, but she might become as popular as say Sarah Brightman. That at least ought to be enough to ensure that she tours there from time to time.

I think she might perform in America, perhaps because she knows she has loyal fans there and would like to perform for them. How hard she would try to break into the mainstream market though is another issue, and one for Hayley and her management.

Martin D

[mihizawi]

Totally agree with everyone except from what Steven said... Steven, America has always had great talents and still do, as I think I have said recently, even when it comes to Classical Music... Also in tastes, I am quite sure in the US there are at least as many Classical Music "fans" (in the meaning they listen to Classical music and go to concerts more or less regularly) as in Spain , but of course, you have 6 to 7 times the population of Spain, so in relative numbers, the following of Classical music in USA is much lower... And, in many other genres, USA has many of the top-class and most talented artists: Jazz, Rock, Pop (although in this case, usually the most-known are not the most taltented, but you have many of both), and even if I can't find it a place in my personal tastes, you have by far, the best rap music in the world (the fact that I hardly can stand Eminem doesn't mean he is not talented... however, it's hard for me to call his talent singing, specially having Hayley as reference)..

Anyway, as I said, I agree with everything else said in this thread: I would love it if Hayley gained popularity in the USA, but not at the cost of losing artistical freedom and privacity, if that's not what she want.

Michal

[Elliot Kane]

Martin,

I pretty much agree with you. Hayley being quiet, unassuming and humble is certainly a constant and consistent image, but not one that lends itself to grand drama queening on national TV.

A point to ponder, though, regarding Sarah Brightman: would she ever have become as popular as she became without first being Mrs Lloyd Webber? Sometimes, as you say, who a person marries (Or has a highly visible affair with, in some cases) can make an incredible difference to their career. There are far too many examples of that to list, in fact...

[spiderman]

theres only one virus more pervasive than reality television: the cuteness of a moppet.

hayley just isnt the right sort of cute for most of america

the spiderman

[milewalker]

Some benefits are self-perpetuating. I suspect that besides the obvious direct boost that Sarah Brightman got in the US from her marraige, the indirect effects of that were even more important. She bacame intimately associated with the biggest stage play the US had seen in some time. Her introduction to the American audience (including me btw) was by way of the recording of the Phantom of the Opera with Michael Crawford. Thats all it takes - once established as a name she had no problem consistantly placing in the top 20 on Billboard pop for close to 20 years.

One of the issues I have with your analysis Martin D is that it would take a good deal of work to get from where she is now to become as "popular as Sarah Brightman" in the US. Phantom aside, Sarah has had several platinum selling albums here.

I do not believe that the type of personality required to succeed in the US comes naturally to Hayley. America is simply noisy, and if you simply stand there and sing it doesnt really matter how well you sing because the painful reality is that no on will ever hear you. It may not require sex, drugs, or rock and roll, but there does have to be some kind of edge - something unique enough about you to be heard above the roar. Maybe it comes down to simple ego.

[larryhauck]

Sept 23, 2010 21:09:19 GMT martindn said:

Hi Elliot,

Well, I have come across British artists that work hard to manufacture an image, and these if I think about it, are the ones that have made it in the US. Usually the image involves drugs busts, falling out of bars, sex etc. How much of it is really the way the person is, and how much of it is a deliberate ploy to get free publicity is debatable. We even have celebrities of little or no discernable talent who have become famous in exactly that way, often by marrying or otherwise being associated with someone who is famous.

Strangely enough, I would have to say through that with Hayley I do buy into the complete package, perhaps because she is a refreshing change from the repellent behaviour and blatent publicity seeking that so many celebrities indulge in. Also perhaps because I have met her a few times, and can see that she is a thoroughly decent human being.

Perhaps what that means is that Hayley has chosen the right base, a country where she will be appreciated for her music without having to compromise her principles to gain publicity, and where she can still maintain some kind of privacy.

For example, most young female celebrities are expected to use sex as a means to promote themselves. I understand some pressure was put on Hayley to do the same, but she wasn't comfortable with that sort of image, so didn't go along that road. I think her real fans support her in that, and admire the fact that Hayley is prepared to stick to her guns and do things her own way.

If what you say is true, this might make it even more difficult for Hayley to crack America, since she doesn't seem too keen on baring her soul to the media, and doesn't conform to the sort of flamboyant, some would say vulgar, image that seems to be expected of young female celebrities over there.

But then again, she does have quite a lot of fans over there, many of whom are HWI members, so there must be potential for her to have some measure of success at least. I can't see her being the next Lady Gaga, but she might become as popular as say Sarah Brightman. That at least ought to be enough to ensure that she tours there from time to time.

I think she might perform in America, perhaps because she knows she has loyal fans there and would like to perform for them. How hard she would try to break into the mainstream market though is another issue, and one for Hayley and her management.

Martin D

Hi Martin,
I disagree with your assessment of what it takes to be popular in the U S. Britain certainly it's share of weirdos ala Amy Winehouse.
Although I'm not a country fan they have a wealth of very well behaved talented female vocalists. The media thrives on printing stories about the bad girls in the entertainment business.
However I would like to see more entertainers like Hayley in the U S; but to make any inroads here you need exposure, and a good agent.
I think that there are many classical crossover fans here in the states.
Youtube gets a lot of play from the U S on the classical crossover artists.
Finally I take exception with the statement that the majority of our female vocalists are immoral.

Larry

[milewalker]

Hi Larry,

Our country and western ladies do tend to perform in something other than evening gowns, and they do tend to move around a bit when they sing - Carrie Underwood once said they had to actually teach her to not be a "stick" These things probably produce an effect a little more "forward" than that which Hayley projects.

Having said this however, your point is well taken

[martindn]

Hi Larry,

I wasn't suggesting that US female vocalists are immoral, only that they might have to pretend to be immoral to get noticed. I suspect that some singers with a "raunchy" image like Madonna and Gaga are actually not like that at all in private life. There is the image and the real person, and the two are very different.

Irrespective of what that says about fans who require such an image to take an interest in music, it is false and dishonest, and in that sense at least smacks of immorality.

I simply can't imagine that Hayley would ever do that. To her, I think, it simply isn't worth it.

In some ways, perhaps the closest American example to Hayley I can think of is Eva Cassidy. Like Hayley she was a girl who loved singing and performing, and was not overly concerned about commercial success (although her style was somewhat different).

So Eva never enjoyed commercial success in her lifetime, which is sad. In the UK, Terry Wogan championed her after her death, and that is how she became known here. But you have to ask why an American singer with such a beautiful voice and a more Amercian oriented repertoire than Hayley didn't succeed. And how Hayley, who is less attuned to the American market, could ever expect to do any better.

Martin D

[Libby]

Another point about the "heavenly voices": Jackie Evancho. Of course, part of her charm is how young she is with such an amazing voice, but still, it's obvious that people do enjoy beautiful voices. Hopefully, since Jackie likes Hayley, and has mentioned her in interviews before, that will help direct people to Hayley, too.

[milewalker]

Martin D

I too resent the implication you are making.

The reality is that it nothing to do with morality at all. It has everything to do with the sheer size of the US, its population distribution and the logistics of trying to market a niche singer under those conditions. It isn't that big of a deal when the product being marketed is something that everybody needs, like toothpaste. It is a big problem when the need is diffuse. Suppose there are 5 million classical crossover fans in the US, spread over the entire country, How do you effectively bring the product to them?

The answer - the only answer I am afraid - is to be exciting enough to attract the interest of the national media outlets. This doesn't have to be a sexualized image - it merely must be sufficiently different to draw notice.

Is it harder in America? Absolutely, because the standards are higher. At the very least a classical crossover performer must be an entertainer as well as a singer - note that there is a lot going on at a Sarah Brightman concert than just her singing. Josh Groban not only sings, but plays multiple instruments very well.

A stand up and sing performer doesn't have much of a chance in crossover in America regardless of how well they do that. No one will even notice.

[Elliot Kane]

Milewalker,

Is it harder in America? Absolutely, because the standards are higher

I would like to respectfully point out that standards are neither higher nor lower in the US than anywhere else. One look at the US Billboard charts should tell you that.

***

Martin,

A singer does not have to be (Or pretend to be) immoral to succeed in the US (Or anywhere else, for that matter).

The biggest superstar in America currently is Taylor Swift, who has outsold every other artist for the past two years, sold out numerous concert venues in minutes and regularly breaks records in just about every category you can break records in. There's just no way anyone could describe her image as anything but utterly wholesome.

She's not alone in that, but she is certainly the most visible example.