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Post by jons on Sept 7, 2006 13:14:59 GMT
Channel 4 webpage for Charlotte Church seems to crash when I access it. Thats says everything, i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gifI think I might watch the repeat out of curiosity. I managed to catch a bit of 'This Morning' err this morning, and they where chatting to Parky. I tuned in late in the interview but I think they were discussing Charlotte's show. Michael seemed very uncritcal of CC at that point, wishing her luck basically. It looks like Parky shaves his legs! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif |
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Post by grant on Sept 8, 2006 23:43:31 GMT
On its third airing, I caught the Charlotte Church show on Channel 4 on Thursday night, and it definately was not my cup of tea.
Much of the content seemed childish and the swearing unnecessary.
However, since my last post on this subject, I've had something of a change of heart.
We are very lucky to have such a beautiful, wonderful, sincere, caring, loving person in Hayley, how would we feel if similar comments were made about her? (although in saying that, I acknowledge that it would be nigh on impossible to find anything bad to say about Hayley).
But seriously, I don't think Hayley would ever say anything bad about anyone, and perhaps she would prefer it if we didn't.
Charlotte has made her choices and good luck to her.
Fortunately for me, my world revolves around Hayley and God bless her!!
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Dave
Administrator
HWI Admin
Posts: 7,700
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Post by Dave on Sept 9, 2006 0:23:37 GMT
Hi Grant, I haven't re-read all of this thread but my recollection is that the criticism was directed primarily at the format of the show by most people - rather than Charlotte herself, who must work with what she is given. I think as long as we don't get too "personal" when discussing Charlotte, reasoned criticism of this type is perfectly acceptable. I watched the second show in the series tonight and whilst there were some aspects of the format that I still don't like (her theme song for example is awful and her not infrequent swearing is gratuitous and demeans her) the rest of the show was slightly better. However, one of my daughters who watched it for the first time actually liked the show  so there's no accounting for tastes! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif I hope Charlotte does well out of it as a first step on the ladder to what she hopes will be a good career in TV. But she really really really does need to cut out the gratuitous swearing and other crudeness quickly, before she gets a reputation she will never be able to live down. Not with my generation, anyway. Cheers, Dave |
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Post by Richard on Sept 9, 2006 13:46:11 GMT
Hello Dave and Grant!  I am unanimous with both of you! I found Charlotte's second show reasonably entertaining, and a distinct improvement on the first, but I thought the bad language was totally unnecessary.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if Hayley has her own TV series in the not-too-distant future, but I'm sure it will be something completely different and based on Hayley's own ideas.  Best Wishes, Richard  |
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Post by jons on Sept 9, 2006 14:59:55 GMT
Swearing is the in-thing these days. If you listen to a lot of what seem like respectable singers albums, you will find swearing - which I think is unacceptable. The show is on after the watershed isn't it?
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Post by postscript on Sept 10, 2006 9:16:50 GMT
On its third airing, I caught the Charlotte Church show on Channel 4 on Thursday night, and it definately was not my cup of tea. Much of the content seemed childish and the swearing unnecessary. However, since my last post on this subject, I've had something of a change of heart. We are very lucky to have such a beautiful, wonderful, sincere, caring, loving person in Hayley, how would we feel if similar comments were made about her? (although in saying that, I acknowledge that it would be nigh on impossible to find anything bad to say about Hayley). But seriously, I don't think Hayley would ever say anything bad about anyone, and perhaps she would prefer it if we didn't. Charlotte has made her choices and good luck to her. Fortunately for me, my world revolves around Hayley and God bless her!! Hi Grant. I agree with all you say. We need to remember with Charlotte what a sweet little girl she once was but like puppies, little girls grow up and it is only later one sees the results of the early days' training experiences. In Charlotte, from what little I have read, it does seem that those early days were not as idyllic as they might have been or we thought they were. Hayley's childhood days do seem to have been idyllic days. That is in fact one of the many reasons she fascinates me. She was given the green light to try what ever she wanted and 'give it a go', which wasn't the receptive freedom or encouragement I was given. Becoming aware of her coincided with a cycle in my life of emerging from a dark tunnel and through Hayley's inspirational exploring of herself, helped re-awake my own creativity, too long submerged under the practicalities of an ordinary every-day existence. Perhaps that is why members have found cause to express appreciaiton of my write-ups on Hayley. Now reawakening as myself, but still chained by the shackles of a backlog caused by letting my own affairs 'go hang' while I concentrated on family needs, I am mentally and emotionally back in my twenties and once more exercising the creative muscle that existed then. I think Charlotte has largely worked out her angsts and as maturity, perhaps with a stable soul mate, works its moulding hand upon her, the early 'nice' girl Charlotte may yet re-appear. Seemingly contradictorily, I have been guilty in a couple of past posts of encouraging Hayley to look other than 'nice girl' but most certainly NOT encouraging the Charlotte way. However, perhaps I'm wrong. Making her one of the ten top young people in the world is a superb reward and perhaps it is right that people like Hayley should only be appreciated by those who have the wit and insight to seek and so become aware of such people as Hayley. It just seems to me a shame that she hasn't yet, with all her hard work, and super though her multi-million total record sales are, it seems she hasn't yet hit the Charlotte numbers and that seems a shame. Oh, and the reference to puppies? A current interest. I think I shared a photo or two a little while back of friends who have just acquired one. According to its professional trainer a very intelligent one. As I'm a regular house-sitter i have to be able to live with it because its the sort of dog when fully grown you don't argue with unless IT knows you very well! Training is so essential to bring out all the very wonderful personality it is already showing and it is a very endearing thing. This, I think is where Hayley was fortunate. Jill and Gerald went out of their way to ensure they did all the right and best possible things for all their children--just as my friends are doing for their puppy. Ensuring all the right opportunities are there in the right way in the early days. The result of that devoted hard work is our Hayley! Few parents have the opportunity of seeing the hard work they put into their parenting blossoming so superbly in the international arena! I've a lot of sympathy for Charlotte--not that anything she is doing at the moment attracts me in t he slightest, though I must catch one of her shows for the experience. Nor have i ruled out the possibility of a Hayley/Charlotte duetting. Not now or for at least two or three years but i reckon Charlotte is redeemable! Well done, Jill and Gerald. You have every reason to be very proud and self-congratulatory. Three superb products from your hard work and devoted love! Peter S. |
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Post by jons on Sept 10, 2006 13:41:00 GMT
Well said Peter! I'm hoping that Hayley herself has a part to play in the way she has turned out. And if Hayley wants to be more popular she may have to start singing more daring songs and start swearing as that seems to be what teenagers want these days I'm afraid. But hopefully it wont come to that. |
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Post by portia on Sept 11, 2006 2:58:26 GMT
What's so great about hitting Charlotte numbers, might I ask? Sure, it got Charlotte oodles of money but perhaps a lifetime of trouble with the press and an adolescence where she basically grew up under a microscope.
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Post by fusilier23 on Sept 11, 2006 3:21:48 GMT
I'm just glad some of the folks here are a bit more sane about how to discuss CC. As I've said before, there is a small but vocal minority that will brook no argument, and gets very angry the minute anyone suggests something might not be other than perfect with CC, or with this or that effort of hers.
Eh, hitting numbers is a big part if not the biggest part of being a recording artist, Portia, surely that must be obvious. The record companies are businesses first, record companies second, and only third record companies that sell this or that artist. Before they are anything, they are in the business to sell records, and that can get very cutthroat. A lot of them even refer to performers as "content providers," meaning that they simply think of them as those who provide the product to be sold. Whether this is right or wrong, it's the way of capitalism. And if there ends up being some collateral damage to some of these providers in the form of an image that traps them or a song forever associated with them long after they've gotten tired of it, particularly after they've provided the content that's gotten the company a pile of cash, well, the companies aren't likely to lose a lot of sleep over it..
I sometimes wonder if a lot of what we see is arguably justifiable bitterness against a record company that stuffed CC into the "angel" box and would not let her put a pinky toe outside that box for years. Still, the numbers for each album speak for themselves, just as the numbers from Friday night will speak for themselves one way or the other. It's a fact that this effort has met with mixed reviews, and some of what is being said in those reviews is justfiable, a lot of this show is without substance. It's a fact that the show is loaded with blue language to the point where it could be perceived as substituting profanity for wit, something even Eddie Murphy gave up and which ultimately caused someone like Andrew Dice Clay to essentially implode. It's a fact that CC's efforts outside of music haven't met with resounding success, and, any way you slice it or parse it, this last effort with music was not all that successful. Leaving aside the question of redemption as a person, she might still be redeemable as an artist, but this isn't the vehicle to do it.
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Post by portia on Sept 11, 2006 8:23:57 GMT
The biggest part of being an artist is doing something that is true to yourself. The biggest part about being a business person is to get money. And if the record company is pushing you to be someone you're not, and if you have enough integrity as a person and an artist, you'll make the wise decision to find a company that will give you the freedom you want. Or start your own. Take Julia Fischer for example. Thousands of record companies jumped at the chance to land her and she was huge prize too - young, female and astoundingly good at the violin. Instead of going to big commercial labels like Decca or Sony or DG, she opted for the smaller, less well funded Pentatone. She doesn't get as heavy promotion, but she's allowed to make decisions for the benefit of herself, rather than money making. She earns a comfortable living too, and she manages to keep herself away from the spotlight.
Of course, Fischer had the talent to back all that up. With Charlotte, I don't think she's more talented than the ordinary girl who can belt her lungs out. She isn't terribly innovative. And I think the pop disc would have been a nice baby step to be a proper original artist but she never followed through. I don't think it's a question of what she does, it's a question of her finding something she wants to do seriously (rather than dabbling) and working hard to acheive it.
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Post by fusilier23 on Sept 11, 2006 11:11:12 GMT
That's the trade-off you make when you opt to go with the big commercial labels, which is what CC chose to do early on at the tender age of 12. When, at the still-tender age of 15 she had misgivings about her musical direction, it was too late, Sony Classical had so firmly wedded her to the "angel" image that pulling away was going to result in disruption, and the rest is history.
I have to agree that talent-wise she is really nothing special at this point, her early success was, in large part, due to her extreme youth and exaggerated cutesy mannerisms. She had to grow out of those one day, it was just a question of whether her musical ability would be enough to carry the day when she could no longer rely on those two factors.
I leave it to the reader to form his own conclusions as to whether that is the case. I also leave it to the reader to form his own conclusions as to all the would-haves, should-haves, could-haves, and might-haves, these are questions that we'll probably never get satisfying answers to. The only question that can be answered now is what WILL happen. I have to agree with Portia, a real future lies in picking a direction and pursuing it seriously, not in dabbling in short-term projects that don't require a lot of effort or action and don't take her too far away from Cardiff for too long. I think she believes that she's a made person and can therefore have her cake and eat it too, but this latest effort says otherwise.
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Post by postscript on Sept 11, 2006 15:53:49 GMT
Well said Peter! I'm hoping that Hayley herself has a part to play in the way she has turned out. And if Hayley wants to be more popular she may have to start singing more daring songs and start swearing as that seems to be what teenagers want these days I'm afraid. But hopefully it wont come to that. Hi Jon S. Sorry if i seem slightly inconsistent here or perhaps too pedantic on small detail but I don't think we want her, nor does she need, to swear. I have friends who use the 'f; word casually and express temper in loaded expletives. Perhaps in deliberate perversity I, of late, would like to think that if anything I not only try harder to control my temper any way but in particular try to express myself without resort to expletives, reverting perhaps to the childishness of 'fish-hooks' and simply 'bother'! However, taking on board a more risqué song routine separates the performer on stage from the person who is performing. That maintains the 'nice girl' image while the 'nice girl' shows she's no pushover and knows the street scene. I guess what we are doing is engaging on a different level and in a different way the debate that must be raging around Hayley at the moment. Where is CD3 to aim and what is to go on it? Another aspect, contradicting my own thesis is that Charlotte was a little younger when she started in the UK arena, helping her impact and at this stage is three international CDs ahead of Hayley. Here I invite Richard or Dave into the debate if they have not already joined it and I am unaware. What's Charlpotte's gross sales on her 5 child/teenage classical CDs? 5million, 7million? Hayley is approaching 3million on only two? Perhaps we worry about her international and particularly the States presence too much. Charlotte is 3 international classical CDs ahead of Hayley with three years additional international exposure ahead of her. Looked at in that light, perhaps we worry unduly. Hayley's still a WOW! On your point about Hayley having contributed to her own development of course raises the old chestnut about nature or nurture. I think the truth is that either can over-ride the other but when both are in harmony then the result is the 'O WOW' of Hayley and her siblings! Peter S. |
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Post by Richard on Sept 11, 2006 16:22:30 GMT
Hello Peter and everybody! I don't think there's much point in comparing the album sales of Hayley and Charlotte, because their careers have drifted so far apart in different directions now. I would be much more interested to know how many live concert appearances they have both given since they hit the big time, worldwide. I think this would show the real difference between them! Best Wishes, Richard |
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Post by jons on Sept 13, 2006 14:14:33 GMT
Hi Peter.  Actually I'm pretty frustrated with the way music's going at the moment. There seems to be a lot of artists who want to shock. Hayley would never do that of course, I just want more young people to be interested in Hayley; and it looks like that could be happening thankfully. Hayley has made her own choices come to think of it. For instance: when she mentioned her Dad was a Christian, but not her Mother, so she discovered Christianity on her own. As for Charlotte, she is not evil. I don't like her but I don't hate her. I say let her get on with it. |
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Post by postscript on Sept 13, 2006 16:05:38 GMT
Hi Jon S. Fair response. It must be going through her head, I suppose, but not necessarily. She's a very 'contented' girl in the sense that 'Hi, this is me, I'm Hayley' and seems, to 'leave it at that'. Perhaps one should not encourage her to 'cast pearls before swine' and may be the richness of everything that is Hayley is that we are privileged with our insights to see it, seek it and revel in it and people need to be deserving enough to be aware of her to enjoy what she offers if they are sufficiently 'with it'. Perhaps just 'being' will reap the wider acclaim over time. If not, was anything missed that did not deserve to be missed?
Peter S.
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so there's no accounting for tastes! 
