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Post by postscript on Sept 11, 2012 8:18:26 GMT
Hi Libby, Martindn and all.
Like much of life I think there are various views depending upon the interplay of objectivity with the subjectivity of one's mood at any particular time: both performer and recipient.
Hayley herself plays around with interpretations of her songs. Hers is never a rote rendition but a thought-through intent for the occasion.
So with "I Dreamed a Dream". I think Susan's interpretation is most in people's minds and I was initially disappointed with Hayley's, expecting her to give us the full belted out rendition.
Thinking on it, she will have realised this was not the occasion to deliver the expected, which would have seemed but a copy of someone else. Not only did she think through the words, she realised this was an opportunity to place her own handle on the song.
She has often said that looking at things again she sees knew meanings and interpretations. This is the mode of all great artistes and accomplished creators. It derives from their own maturing. Shakespeare being the classic example of the diversity of interpretation possible within the same set of words. The success of those interpretations depending also upon the ability of the artiste delivering them.
Peter S.
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Post by susieverity on Sept 11, 2012 17:49:40 GMT
Great videos Hayley sounded amazing- Amalia must be so hard to sing, but she did it so well- and all the tempo changes in it and the language! Just amazing! and I dreamed a dream too- very dramatic, loved it!
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Post by Elliot Kane on Sept 11, 2012 18:52:50 GMT
And I Dreamed a Dream - that felt like the best performance I have seen her do of that too. And to think that some people seem to prefer Susan Boyle's version? That seems laughable now. I don't think anyone sings it better than Hayley. Martin D I wholeheartedly agree with you on this one. Susan's version is nice, of course, but she doesn't blow me away like Hayley does. I think for Susan it was more of a shock factor that such a nice voice came out of a lady who was not up to "Hollywood" standards (I guess you would say). That's what all the hype was about, the drama of it all. But she did sing it nicely, although it wasn't until Hayley sang it last summer that I couldn't stop listening to it. I still don't remember all the words, but I pretty much know how the whole thing sounds in my head, what part comes when, and all that. I love the part where she says "As they turn your dream to sha-a-aa-aaame!" Absolute favorite part!  But I like the whole thing. With Susan Boyle - for me at least - it was that she seemed to be singing her own life with every part of her heart and soul. There is no way Susan could ever compete with Hayley as a vocalist. The only singer I know of who one day MIGHT is Faryl Smith and she has a ways to go yet. But on that one song, for that one occasion - because of the amount of sheer authenticity she put into it - Susan Boyle is pretty near unbeatable, IMO. |
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Post by Dave on Sept 11, 2012 19:22:52 GMT
There is no way Susan could ever compete with Hayley as a vocalist. The only singer I know of who one day MIGHT is Faryl Smith and she has a ways to go yet. But on that one song, for that one occasion - because of the amount of sheer authenticity she put into it - Susan Boyle is pretty near unbeatable, IMO. Funnily enough Elliott, I have been comparing the IDaD versions today, including Susan's album version, and I can't really say that I agree with you on that. Susan's reality TV performances were certainly powerful, emotional and unexpected, and that together with the audience reaction (partly stage-managed of course, as normal) made it pretty special. But it's definitely not authentic, in my opinion - not true to the musical from which it came. She belts it out from start to finish and it lacks the finesse which at times the song needs, I think. It also omits a key verse (he slept the summer by my side...) so that the story behind the song is rather lost. Susan's album version is better, though heavily compressed dynamically from halfway though which makes it sound unnaturally loud I think - but the overall dynamic range is better, she goes from soft and gentle at the start to powerful and climactic (the recording engineers turned up the wick!), and then back to that gentle moment of sadness at the end which was missing from her TV shows - so from that point of view it's the more authentic of the two. But it still omits that key verse, which irritates me a bit. So I think Hayley's performance is more "authentic" and is sung better (though not as powerfully) than either of Susan's versions. She tells the story beautifully in song, with finesse when required, and the orchestration is superbly natural with hardly anything added other than a little reverb. That's how I like it. But of course, Susan Boyle has done more for this marvellous song in the public consciousness than anyone else and that is indisputable, she did a great job with it, but I prefer Hayley's. As for Amalia Por Amor, well I'm in bits every time I listen to it, for me it's an exquisitely beautiful performance of a wonderful composition - though as with many foreign language songs, it helps to know the story behind it. Cheers, Dave |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Sept 11, 2012 19:50:10 GMT
Dave, Interesting we should differ, but then music is so much about personal taste I like Susan's album version of I Dreamed A Dream, but for me it lacks the level of emotion she gives it when she's feeding off the audience in her X-Factor audition. Music (Of this sort at least) is, for me, far more about feeling than technique. The reason I rate Hayley as the best female singer in the world is that she can do both to perfection. If she were only capable of technical perfection, I would not rate her at all. So when I hear I Dreamed A Dream I want to hear the broken life in the song. Hayley has become very good at portraying that, but Susan related to the song on such a personal level that I could easily believe it had been written for her and about her life. For me, that is true authenticity On most songs I consider Hayley to be unbeatable and her version to be the definitive. But on one or two - for me - others have performed them better. If, in this case, only the once We definitely agree, though, that Susan has done more for the popularity of the song than any other singer |
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Post by martindn on Sept 11, 2012 21:26:59 GMT
Well, for me the technical imperfections of Susan's singing on the live version rather ruins it for me. I find those things grate on my ear, and I find myself listening for them instead of enjoying the song. So the emotion is lost for me if there are glaring technical flaws.
Susan's CD version is better (no doubt autotuned) I agree Dave, but I agree with Elliott too, seeems less emotional.
Hayley can be relied upon to be spot on technically. That means I can really listen to the song confdent that no horros are going to leap out and distract me, and let is emotional power of the song hit me. That is one thing I love about Hayley, I don't find myself looking for faults and criticising the technical performace, and can appreciate the song much better.
Perhaps it is listening to Hayley a lot that has done that to me. I find I am less tolerant of technical errors than I used to be, so much so that I can go back and listen to something I used to like years ago, and realise that it really wasn't very good after all.
As for Amalia - wow - I doubt if anybody else in the world could get close to Hayleys performance of it. It is quite simply utterly brilliant in every way. A fabulous peice of singing, great orchestration - wonderful.
Martin D
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Post by Dave on Sept 11, 2012 22:18:23 GMT
Hi guys, Perhaps it's all down to whether you prefer to hear emotion and 'involvement' expressed primarily through power or delicacy? You have probably have guessed my preference!  Meanwhile, BBC4 TV will broadcast highlights from all four Proms In The Park on Friday 14 September at 7:30pm, a 90 minute programme. Hopefully they will show Whispers in full this time as it still hasn't appeared as promised on the BBC website (though I'm chasing it). Luckily we have many other good recordings of Hayley singing it so all is not lost if it doesn't appear. Cheers, Dave |
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Post by Ross on Sept 12, 2012 5:42:07 GMT
Hi guys, Perhaps it's all down to whether you prefer to hear emotion and 'involvement' expressed primarily through power or delicacy? You have probably have guessed my preference! Meanwhile, BBC4 TV will broadcast highlights from all four Proms In The Park on Friday 14 September at 7:30pm, a 90 minute programme. Hopefully they will show Whispers in full this time as it still hasn't appeared as promised on the BBC website (though I'm chasing it). Luckily we have many other good recordings of Hayley singing it so all is not lost if it doesn't appear. Cheers, Dave I saw on a BBC website that Northern Ireland BBC is going to show the concert but it will be later in the year (no date given). |
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Post by Libby on Sept 12, 2012 6:09:50 GMT
Elliot, I don't compare Faryl to Hayley, partly because their tones are so much different, and her type of tone has never been my favorite, which is also the reason I don't care for KJ, JE, etc. Something in the tone takes away from the beauty of the notes for me. I can't explain it. It's a lower, yawning tone, and I've never enjoyed it. I guess it's more operatic? Well, I don't really like opera, with some rare exceptions. So, they're very good singers, but just not my cup of tea, I guess. As for Susan's performances vs. recordings: I think I can tell you that it's probably the Simon Cowell "Factor" that makes the difference (somewhat). The same thing happened for Jai MacDowall. His vocals on the show were very powerful, but on the CD, they are a bit lack-luster in comparison, and also to his live shows I've seen. The recordings sound nice, of course, but nowhere near what I was expecting. Fix You is very nice, but then I heard his live version on youtube, and I was sold on that one. I think he's coming out with a new CD soon, but I think he's going to lean more towards pop than CC, which is too bad. He sounded so good on Time To Say Goodbye when he was in China! BTW, Elliot, Susan was on BGT, not X Factor. Jai, on the other hand, was on both! |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Sept 12, 2012 6:55:37 GMT
Elliot, I don't compare Faryl to Hayley, partly because their tones are so much different, and her type of tone has never been my favorite, which is also the reason I don't care for KJ, JE, etc. Something in the tone takes away from the beauty of the notes for me. I can't explain it. It's a lower, yawning tone, and I've never enjoyed it. I guess it's more operatic? Well, I don't really like opera, with some rare exceptions. So, they're very good singers, but just not my cup of tea, I guess. I don't like Opera myself, for the most part. It's very rare for me to come across an Opera singer I don't wince at, in fact. Something about Opera REALLY shows up any flaw in the voice, however minor. The reason I always compare Hayley to Faryl is because, despite their voices sounding very different, they share one very rare quality: both can convey technical perfection AND the emotion of a song at the same time. They are the only Classical singers I listen to right now because they are the only two I have found with that quality. And both get listened to a lot! I think you may be right about the 'Cowell Factor'. Although it must be said that some artists are just naturally better live with an audience to directly inspire them, being performers at least as much as they are singers. Oops! Yes, you're right, of course! Been a few years, but I should have remembered! I put it down to recent conversation elsewhere abut how badly Amelia Lily has been let down by her record company, song-wise! That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it!  |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Sept 12, 2012 7:06:48 GMT
Hi guys, Perhaps it's all down to whether you prefer to hear emotion and 'involvement' expressed primarily through power or delicacy? You have probably have guessed my preference! Hayley has never lacked power, Dave, so I'm not sure it's that. She can 'foghorn' pretty much anyone if she wants - and I'm sure that would include Susan For me - and it's only my opinion, obviously - Susan just seems to have a more personal connection to the song. Hayley acts it; Susan lives it. That, for me, is the difference. |
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Post by Dave on Sept 12, 2012 12:34:13 GMT
I saw on a BBC website that Northern Ireland BBC is going to show the concert but it will be later in the year (no date given). Hi Ross, I forgot to say that from what I've heard, it will probably be on around Christmas time, from which I take it to mean December but I don't think it's been scheduled yet. Hi guys, Perhaps it's all down to whether you prefer to hear emotion and 'involvement' expressed primarily through power or delicacy? You have probably have guessed my preference! Hayley has never lacked power, Dave, so I'm not sure it's that. She can 'foghorn' pretty much anyone if she wants - and I'm sure that would include Susan For me - and it's only my opinion, obviously - Susan just seems to have a more personal connection to the song. Hayley acts it; Susan lives it. That, for me, is the difference. Hi Elliott, Ah I see what you mean by "authentic" now, which I can happily take your word for as I don't know much about Susan's background. But I still think it's wrong for them to have left out that key verse even on her CD, as the song then loses a chunk of its meaning in Les Mis, and leaves you wondering how it got from one particular verse to the next. As for the power thing, well it's relative of course, and the thing is, can Susan do "delicate" (if that's the right word) in a live setting? I have only heard her live on BGT, but from that my guess is that Hayley is better at it. Of course, doing things loud (including the backing) may be a Cowell thing, the way they set up the audio for Susan. |
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Post by martindn on Sept 12, 2012 22:25:10 GMT
Meanwhile, BBC4 TV will broadcast highlights from all four Proms In The Park on Friday 14 September at 7:30pm, a 90 minute programme. Hopefully they will show Whispers in full this time as it still hasn't appeared as promised on the BBC website (though I'm chasing it). Cheers, Dave Hi Dave, I have a good audio recording of Whispers that I can post if you like. Martin D |
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Post by Dave on Sept 13, 2012 0:33:26 GMT
Meanwhile, BBC4 TV will broadcast highlights from all four Proms In The Park on Friday 14 September at 7:30pm, a 90 minute programme. Hopefully they will show Whispers in full this time as it still hasn't appeared as promised on the BBC website (though I'm chasing it). Cheers, Dave Hi Dave, I have a good audio recording of Whispers that I can post if you like. Martin D Hi Martin D, I have all the BBC R Ulster broadcast too but I was hanging on in the hope of the BBC keeping their promise to put all the concert on the iPlayer but so far, only part 1 is up. I have chased it and it may be played on the BBC4 programme on Friday but if all that fails I'll have to insert some stills at the start to cover the video gap. My idea is to post the entire 20-odd minute Hayley sequence, uncut so fingers crossed! Cheers, Dave |
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Post by Libby on Sept 13, 2012 5:39:52 GMT
Although Hayley may not have experienced the trials that the character does in the story, you wouldn't know it. She is extremely believable. I don't know where she gets the emotion from, but it's obviously real.
Susan is believable too, but she never quite sold me on the song. But Hayley did. I never would've considered the song one of my favorites before. Her earlier performance of the song was beautiful technically, but it was definitely missing emotion and drama (not that I would expect her to at that age), so it was a bit slow and boring for me, otherwise. Not so with her more recent versions. It's amazing that she can now make me a like a song that I originally found a bit boring, even when she sang it as a young girl.
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But I like the whole thing.
