Jillian
Global Moderator
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Post by Jillian on Sept 9, 2011 23:38:48 GMT
My favourites are the black and white ones and also this one:  Very whimsical!  |
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Post by Libby on Sept 10, 2011 1:08:55 GMT
Well, there were some back in 2006 with her in very bright makeup that didn't look quite like the Hayley we were used to seeing. And then there's that one that almost looks like a pageant photo, she's just missing the sash. I think she's wearing a purplish dress, has bright makeup, and might even wearing a crown. With sky behind it? Now, that was whimsical. I don't see whimsical in the first photo. Her stare is a bit unnatural, though.
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Post by postscript on Sept 10, 2011 8:48:45 GMT
Maybe this is a compromise re-imaging stemming from the failed attempt to "tart her up" from a few years back. Or maybe it's a "coming of age" message. Very lovely photos nonetheless. I think that's a very salient point, Steve. One assumes she knew what to expect when she agreed to pose in this manner and in that context, the need to "sell her as a person" might well be her compromise. I accept there is a contrast to the Paradiso promotion and in that context the exposure of leg on the Vespa is a style more in keeping if the marketeers persist in bringing in a sexual angle. However, the background argument appears to be the need to sell HER. On that principle I am in agreement and on that basis I think the Harper pictures fit the bill, they are a statement she is now grown up and therefore would seem to follow on from the Paradiso which portrays a doll-like pretty figure to superficially tantalise. Harper's pictures declare her to be a woman who is interesting in herself as a person not just a pin up. That is a promotional aspect Hayley has been missing all these years and the wider 'confessional' approach has given her wider promotional coverage. They are at last seriously selling the girl in a way in which she (hopefully) is comfortable. Behind this imagery is artistic experience and I suspect a more top level professional team. Peter S. |
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Post by martindn on Sept 10, 2011 20:13:22 GMT
Yes Peter, I think I agree.
These photos actually say more about the photographer than they do about Hayley. It is something I have mixed feelings about. She is a beautiful woman, and there are any number of photographers around who are keen to exploit that, and perhaps project an image that, whilst not strictly true to the subject, will help to sell her.
With most celebrities it is all smoke and mirrors anyway. Perhaps my doubts come from having always regarded Hayley a a particularly honest artist, one who does not try to hide behind a false image as so many others do. I suspect she was persuaded that she needed to be portrayed like that to further her career. We all know that it is the music that matters most to Hayley, yet for perhaps the majority in the world, sadly, the music isn't enough. They want a sexy image - and although Hayley is eminently capable of providing one, I don't think that is the way she likes to see herself.
This is a wonderful exhibition of the photograper's art for sure. But it isn't the Hayley I know.
Martin D
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Martin
Global Moderator
HWI Management Team
Posts: 3,339
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Post by Martin on Sept 11, 2011 8:42:50 GMT
This is a wonderful exhibition of the photographer's art for sure. But it isn't the Hayley I know. Martin D Hi Martindn I disagree. The Hayley I know would not have agreed to the photo shoot unless she was entirely happy with the idea. Furthermore, an artist and management always have final veto on photographs taken. Bandana and Decca are working desperately hard to raise Hayley's profile in this very competitive market and a photo shoot such as this one and the recent Rome Paradiso shoot are just one thread of this objective. It is long overdue that Hayley's perceived image of busking in Christchurch at the age of twelve and her subsequent "Pure" success days are put to rest. Best wishes Martin |
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Post by postscript on Sept 11, 2011 9:51:28 GMT
This is a wonderful exhibition of the photographer's art for sure. But it isn't the Hayley I know. Martin D Hi Martindn I disagree. The Hayley I know would not have agreed to the photo shoot unless she was entirely happy with the idea. Furthermore, an artist and management always have final veto on photographs taken. Bandana and Decca are working desperately hard to raise Hayley's profile in this very competitive market and a photo shoot such as this one and the recent Rome Paradiso shoot are just one thread of this objective. It is long overdue that Hayley's perceived image of busking in Christchurch at the age of twelve and her subsequent "Pure" success days are put to rest. Best wishes Martin Hi Martin, Martindn and everyone. I understand both sentiments very well indeed and sympathise but the world does not stand still, as JM Barrie realised, hence the Peter Pan story. I am sure Jill and Gerald have mixed feelings over this, their little girl has grown up and is a woman, a fully developed sexual being in her own right. Normally these are parental pangs brought out on a wedding day but modern life brings such feelings to the fore much earlier than used to be the case, especially when the background is exceptionally talented as is Hayley. Yes, we/she have lost something, obvious childlike innocence has given way, as is the natural way of the world, to a beautifully mature young woman whom we can admire for additional reasons to the ones that first attracted our attention. That is reality and dreams have to accommodate reality or be crushed. I have now come to Martindn 's original post and so quote the bit Matin left out. "Yes Peter, I think I agree. These photos actually say more about the photographer than they do about Hayley. It is something I have mixed feelings about. She is a beautiful woman, and there are any number of photographers around who are keen to exploit that, and perhaps project an image that, whilst not strictly true to the subject, will help to sell her. With most celebrities it is all smoke and mirrors anyway. Perhaps my doubts come from having always regarded Hayley as a particularly honest artist, one who does not try to hide behind a false image as so many others do. I suspect she was persuaded that she needed to be portrayed like that to further her career. We all know that it is the music that matters most to Hayley, yet for perhaps the majority in the world, sadly, the music isn't enough. They want a sexy image - and although Hayley is eminently capable of providing one, I don't think that is the way she likes to see herself. This is a wonderful exhibition of the photograper's art for sure. But it isn't the Hayley I know. Martin D" Looking at my J M Barrie comment in a different light Hayley is one who "looks for the best in life" and tries/desires to follow those ideals but she is also a pragmatist. Look back over the years this site has been following/supporting her and you will find many comments such as, 'hard-headed, 'her feet on the ground', 'knows how to put her foot down if she must'. Look at that quote from her autobiography The World at her Feet, that incident at the decision time for the Pure tracks. She had her way. I'll wager that until now she has had her way in NOT being sexualised. Now, she is a mature, business-experienced young woman, not a girl. Now, she is ready. She may not like it but she is realistic to know the business argument is valid. So she agrees but in her own way and under her control. She will have examined Harper's past portfolio, making up and dressing as she did she knew what the result would be. I think she is behind the whole thing and very much in control. Hayley is a beautiful, talented young woman with dreams and aspirations and who would appear to have benefited from the attachment of a regular guy. She is also a girl whose head is firmly screwed to her shoulders and feet firmly nailed to the ground. She may well not like it but she knows what she wants from her talent and knows she has to compromise to achieve what she wants. I think she is very much in control. In that we owe it to her to respect and support her wishes. Peter S. |
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Post by martindn on Sept 11, 2011 13:13:56 GMT
Hi Peter, Martin and all,
Yes, I agree.She is doing what needs to be done to achieve her dream, and I fully support her in that.
And as you say, I'm sure she knows what she is doing. And whatever the images say, underneath she is still Hayley, the girl with the fabulous voice who loves singing.
My point was not that Hayley has grown up, or that these days as is obvious, she is more comfortable with her sexuality. To me, Hayley shines like the sun - she has no place slinking around in the darkness. In some of those, I half expected to see a cigarette in her mouth. She also I thought, was wearing rather more makup than she needs. So that's what I meant when I said the image is a false one.
The photography, however, is brilliant.
And if it helps her career, I'm all in favour.
Martin D
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Post by grant on Sept 11, 2011 14:48:48 GMT
I disagree. The Hayley I know would not have agreed to the photo shoot unless she was entirely happy with the idea. Furthermore, an artist and management always have final veto on photographs taken.
Bandana and Decca are working desperately hard to raise Hayley's profile in this very competitive market and a photo shoot such as this one and the recent Rome Paradiso shoot are just one thread of this objective.
It is long overdue that Hayley's perceived image of busking in Christchurch at the age of twelve and her subsequent "Pure" success days are put to rest.
Best wishes
Martin I'm with you 100% Martin. As to photo shoots, I would go one further and suggest that Hayley would know before hand what to expect and, if she was at all usure, would ask "Why?" - an unsatisfactory answer would soon elicit a rejection. I honestly don't think Hayley's priciples have changed other than she is now a woman and perhaps keen herself to loose the "Little girl busking in Christchurch" image. We know also that Hayley enjoys photo shoots - she has said so in her tweets - and why not? Afterall she gets to wear fabulous clothes; have her hair and makeup done for her and be pampered all day! As for the photo's themselves, yes, they are a wonderful exhibition of the photograher's art - that's the whole point and, no doubt, why Rob was chosen for this particular set. The whole objective of which was to create a new image for 'grown up' Hayley. Perhaps we don't want to think of her as grown up but we must. Best wishes Grant |
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Post by grant on Sept 11, 2011 15:21:22 GMT
To me, Hayley shines like the sun - she has no place slinking around in the darkness. In some of those, I half expected to see a cigarette in her mouth. She also I thought, was wearing rather more makup than she needs. So that's what I meant when I said the image is a false one. I think you're missing the point Martin; I see where you're coming from but these images are aimed at people who don't yet know Hayley OR who don't yet find her interesting. I would put money on the monochrome images having the most impact because people will remember that first impression of squalour, which is why I believe Hayley is positioned far right. That particular image defies all the rules of photography but it works brilliantly because you don't see her at first and have to look round the photo to find her. Put a cigarette in her mouth and the image changes a millionfold; subtlety is the name of the game here. As for Hayley's make up - it is, in my opinion, spot on for the image being created. Sorry! being an image anorak!  Best wishes Grant |
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Post by stevemacdonald on Sept 11, 2011 19:23:10 GMT
One possibility hasn't been given its due yet: that this is the real Hayley we're finally getting to see and Rob Harper has officially unmasked her!
I have always felt that Hayley was camera-fatigued from all the thousands of pics that have gone up on HWI and elsewhere. She knew she was being snapped endlessly in concert and offstage, constantly on someone's camera display. Yes, she could give delightful (and caption-worthy) poses at glamourous events and her sincere smile always lit up the scene, but still, it was just her public self at work.
Mr. Harper must have created a different mindset for her going in. You can almost hear him coaching and coaxing each micro-expression...."Now a little more somber...that's it...okay, and a tad aloof...great...now a touch of anguish...well done... etc." That's how the best ones get the job done. They direct in the most nuanced ways. Their objective is to disabuse the subject of any pre-existing image consciousness and allow the natural person underneath to show through and pose accordingly. This session delivered the real Hayley Westenra and for that we should all be alarmed or grateful, depending on how much it shatters any illusions.
Was this cynical marketing's finest hour? Hardly. This was a necessary corrective to the constraining purity of before. I can't imagine Hayley ever going back to the bubbly poses that inform this site's photo library. They don't fit her anymore.
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Post by martindn on Sept 11, 2011 20:16:54 GMT
Nah Steve, she looks mean in some of those photos. There isn't a mean bone in her body.
Mr Harper has manufactured an image, very skilfully I must say. And yes, you can say that her little girl image was equally manufactured, and I wouldn't disagree. Neither is the real person.
The real person is overjoyed that she was chosen to sing The World in Union, overjoyed at the success of Paradiso. The mean and moody one would think they had a right to that success.
The real Hayley cares about people, that image is of someone aloof and disinterested. The real Hayley makes time for her fans, that one would treat them and everyone else with contempt.
The real person is kind and gererous, not mean and moody. She might be expressing her sexuality more, no problem with that, but she hasn'r suddenly turned into a self-obsessed celebrity like so many others. I just don't buy it.
Martin D
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Post by grant on Sept 11, 2011 23:12:36 GMT
Nah Steve, she looks mean in some of those photos. There isn't a mean bone in her body. I don't see "mean" in any of those images (which are created by the way NOT manufactured) Serious and streetwise maybe and one down right cheeky one BUT they're not the Hayley we see before and after a concert (and I don't think they ever will be) which is where I disagree with Steve. Anyway, the fact that these images are generating so much argument and discussion means that they will do in the media what they're intended to do - get people noticing HayleyBest wishes Grant |
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Post by comet on Sept 11, 2011 23:30:02 GMT
If I wear a Devil's outfit to a fancy dress party and someone takes a few pictures of me making evil faces - That proves I am the devil - Right ? They are just a handful of trivial pictures - neither evidence or proof of one thing or another. very few of us ever truly reveal ourselves to another human being, much less to a photographer who intends to publish the photos worldwide, It is just a little dressing up and a little acting, a little bit of fun, any more is just speculation and conjecture. But then again, maybe I am..................... |
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Post by Paddy on Sept 12, 2011 0:57:23 GMT
If I wear a Devil's outfit to a fancy dress party and someone takes a few pictures of me making evil faces - That proves I am the devil - Right ? They are just a handful of trivial pictures - neither evidence or proof of one thing or another. very few of us ever truly reveal ourselves to another human being, much less to a photographer who intends to publish the photos worldwide, It is just a little dressing up and a little acting, a little bit of fun, any more is just speculation and conjecture. But then again, maybe I am..................... At last! Some common sense ...... What's so different about Hayley in these images? The (fashionable?) heavy eye make up maybe? But haven't I sometimes seen that already - even in the 'bubbly' amateur photos? The medium is not the entire 'message' surely - just what one photographer sees in his subject at a particular moment in time? Perhaps viewers too tend to see in artistic images what they want to see in them or what they themselves bring to them? The 'speculation and conjecture' and 'argument' regarding Hayley's personal and developmental Psychology perhaps say much more about the writers themselves and their conceptions and misconceptions than about Hayley herself as a person? So, enjoy the images for what they are ... lose the 'Hayley definitions' ... and let Hayley be Hayley. And, Comet, if you're the Devil, I must be the 'Devil's Advocate'! Paddy |
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Post by stevemacdonald on Sept 12, 2011 1:15:34 GMT
...The 'speculation and conjecture' and 'argument' regarding Hayley's personal and developmental Psychology perhaps say much more about the writers themselves and their conceptions and misconceptions than about Hayley herself as a person? ... Probably so, Paddy! But let's agree that this particular photo shoot is a game changer for everyone. Never before has her image been shifted so expertly. It's as if at long last they realised they needed an artist equal to Hayley to render her properly. Rob Harper is clearly in a league of his own and did the job right. As a result, all of our "conceptions and misconceptions" have been stirred anew. Well, maybe not yours, but certainly lots of us. |
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