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Post by postscript on Dec 3, 2010 16:10:49 GMT
Hi Dennis, Peter and All. I have just played the Jackie DVD which is nothing more than the Youtube clips but in doing so I came across the duet with Brightman. I have just done a quick search on Sarah in this thread and don't think I am repeating what has already been said, namely that part of the "America's Got Talent" Jackie had the opportunity to sing with her hero and that hero turns out to be Sarah Brightman in whom both I and my American friend have an interest--she's our home town girl! I remember Sarah singing at 14 doing an Old Time Music Hall number in the local town hall. As for the lipstick, it may be slightly heavy but I have the sense that it was done purely to counter the deadening effect of the lights so, no I don't think it is excessive, it is necessary for an overall balance of the face under what were not stage lights but arc lights without gels. I think the staging was bad. In the www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qecULT01iE&feature=related 'Got Talent' Brightman piece they had Jackie on a small pedestal. In the Rockefeller Centre they could easily have put Katherine on a lower step, that would have solved the problem. Extraordinarily short-sighted of someone not to see that at the time. Peter S. |
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Post by postscript on Dec 3, 2010 17:55:49 GMT
Hi all.
The comparison I would like to make is between Jackie and Faryl. They are both mezzos and they both have a lovely rounded tone. At the moment Jackie's emotive response is due to her youth but give her a few years of maturity and a larger body she will use that emotive expression not based on a physical need to express herself but as an inevitable expression of the deep emotive feeling she has for the song.
I think this is a girl who is going to feel her singing as deeply as Hayley expresses herself in her renditions. I wonder if Jackie is thinking of any dance lessons. One feels she wants to dance as she sings, the whole of her body seems in tune with voice.
Peter S.
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Post by Libby on Dec 3, 2010 19:59:32 GMT
I think this is a girl who is going to feel her singing as deeply as Hayley expresses herself in her renditions. I wonder if Jackie is thinking of any dance lessons. One feels she wants to dance as she sings, the whole of her body seems in tune with voice. That's why I've thought she would be good on broadway. She always looks a little dramatic in her movements while she sings. If she were in a play, then she could sing and be as dramatic as she wanted. She would be good at it. I think broadway would be better for her than opera, at least right now. I imagine there would be more child roles in a play than in an opera. |
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Post by martindn on Dec 3, 2010 20:08:10 GMT
That is the point of course. We are comparing a 10 year old girl with an adult woman. Of course Jackie hasn't had as much time to work on her technique. But one thing I can say for sure is that unlike Hayley, Jackie does not have perfect pitch. Compare this with Hayley's version, recorded when Hayley was 15. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg0hNMQXijoMartin D |
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Post by flyingalbert on Dec 3, 2010 22:03:08 GMT
That is the point of course. We are comparing a 10 year old girl with an adult woman. Of course Jackie hasn't had as much time to work on her technique. But one thing I can say for sure is that unlike Hayley, Jackie does not have perfect pitch. Compare this with Hayley's version, recorded when Hayley was 15. www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg0hNMQXijoMartin D Martin, you're right. Jackie does not have perfect pitch and will not until she pass puberty. Her parents were told 1 and 1/2 year ago NOT to have extensive training. Her mom posted in a forum. Therefore, Jackie the 10 years old is just using most of her natural ability and having fun of her life. Maybe we have not seen what Jackie Evancho is capable of after extensive training. No one know since she is 10 years old. For a 10 years old, the youngest top 10 debut unseat Michael Jackson is a huge accomplishment and she will also be the youngest to hit platinum at 10 by the end of Christmas. I am sure she will have many platinum records before she even start of her extensive training when she reach puberty. |
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Post by martindn on Dec 4, 2010 0:46:24 GMT
Hi Albert,
Welcome to the forum.
Yes, you are right, her singing can only improve. But perfect or absolute pitch does not develop with time. In fact the opposite happens, many young children have it and lose it as they get older. Hayley had it at the age of six, and didn't lose it.
Of course, pitch control can improve with training, and I'm sure Jackie will do so. And I think that avoiding too much training too soon is wise. Jackie has fantastic potential, and the biggest fear I have for her is that it will not be realised becuase to too much pressure, or commercial exploitation, too soon. She needs to have her childhood, and needs to be guided, but allowed to develop naturally. To do otherwise risks destroying her voice.
There are so many pitfalls, yet I feel she is in good hands despite Mr Cowell's influence.
Martin D
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Post by stevemacdonald on Dec 4, 2010 0:55:10 GMT
... I feel she is in good hands despite Mr Cowell's influence. ... I could be wrong, but lately it seems Jackie is under the wing of David Foster. If anyone is eminently qualified to oversee her musical development it's him. |
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Post by flyingalbert on Dec 4, 2010 1:45:49 GMT
Hi Albert, Welcome to the forum. Yes, you are right, her singing can only improve. But perfect or absolute pitch does not develop with time. In fact the opposite happens, many young children have it and lose it as they get older. Hayley had it at the age of six, and didn't lose it. Of course, pitch control can improve with training, and I'm sure Jackie will do so. And I think that avoiding too much training too soon is wise. Jackie has fantastic potential, and the biggest fear I have for her is that it will not be realised becuase to too much pressure, or commercial exploitation, too soon. She needs to have her childhood, and needs to be guided, but allowed to develop naturally. To do otherwise risks destroying her voice. There are so many pitfalls, yet I feel she is in good hands despite Mr Cowell's influence. Martin D Hi Martin, Read this article: www.greenwichcitizen.com/news/article/Composer-Tim-Janis-introduces-a-9-year-old-299726.phpShe was 9 before she was famous and already brought many to tears. Those are regular audience and not CC audience. Therefore, most are "UNTRAINED EARS". At that time, she was hardly at the current level, but still Jackie had emotional power. That is what Jackie Evancho is. She does not have to be perfect as long as she can drive the emotion and brought the happiness within audiences. Sing perfect beautiful is one thing, drive up the emotion is another thing. What is the different from Maria Callas and Jackie Evancho's "O Mio Babbino caro", it is the emotion. TRAINED EARS like your or some opera people maybe look for imperfection and may not feel the emotion. Do you know any 9 years old can brought people to tear include grown up without even close to singing perfect. Can that we trained? Probably not. She just born with such ability at a very young age at 9 even before she was famous. |
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Post by tracy on Dec 4, 2010 1:51:19 GMT
Hi Albert.
Welcome to the forum as well, you any relation to the famous British pilot "Flying Albert"
Just going off your avatar name.
much love Tracy.
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Post by Dennis S. on Dec 4, 2010 4:35:25 GMT
The comparison I would like to make is between Jackie and Faryl. They are both mezzos and they both have a lovely rounded tone. I still don't understand why Jackie is reclassified as a mezzo-soprano instead of a soprano. Some of the high notes that she can hit seems to be well above a typical mezzo-soprano range. Plus she struggled with her lower registers, which to me indicates that her natural range is that of a soprano. |
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Post by Libby on Dec 4, 2010 5:53:53 GMT
Yes, she sounded more like a soprano in Pie Jesu, which is probably partly why I enjoyed it more than anything else she sang. Even in Silent Night it would've sounded nicer if she hadn't sung as if she was yawning the whole time. Hayley used to have a bit of a "yawn" in her voice, particularly in lower notes, and in certain vowel sounds, but she has outgrown that. Maybe Jackie will too.
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Post by milewalker on Dec 4, 2010 6:18:10 GMT
The comparison I would like to make is between Jackie and Faryl. They are both mezzos and they both have a lovely rounded tone. I still don't understand why Jackie is reclassified as a mezzo-soprano instead of a soprano. Some of the high notes that she can hit seems to be well above a typical mezzo-soprano range. Plus she struggled with her lower registers, which to me indicates that her natural range is that of a soprano. Generally speaking a mezzo should be able to go up to around an A5. A soprano would reasonalbly be expected to hit C6. Jackie tops out in her performances around Aflat5. It is quite likely she can sing higher than this but at present she doesnt. The lower notes are not in her current public repertoire, but are easily found in the material she has on YouTube before she was on AGT. Some of that stuff is really low for a soprano of any type - I would have to get a keyboard out to be sure, but somewhere around G3 seems likely Where she struggles is the transition between registers |
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Post by milewalker on Dec 4, 2010 6:22:58 GMT
Hi Albert, Welcome to the forum. Yes, you are right, her singing can only improve. But perfect or absolute pitch does not develop with time. In fact the opposite happens, many young children have it and lose it as they get older. Hayley had it at the age of six, and didn't lose it. Of course, pitch control can improve with training, and I'm sure Jackie will do so. And I think that avoiding too much training too soon is wise. Jackie has fantastic potential, and the biggest fear I have for her is that it will not be realised becuase to too much pressure, or commercial exploitation, too soon. She needs to have her childhood, and needs to be guided, but allowed to develop naturally. To do otherwise risks destroying her voice. There are so many pitfalls, yet I feel she is in good hands despite Mr Cowell's influence. Martin D Perfect pitch is innate. Absolute pitch can develop with time and training. In fact to the extent that she can sing acapella and immediately correct an off note on the next note suggests she already has absolute pitch - just not perfect control of her instrument yet |
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Post by mihizawi on Dec 4, 2010 11:12:12 GMT
I still don't understand why Jackie is reclassified as a mezzo-soprano instead of a soprano. Some of the high notes that she can hit seems to be well above a typical mezzo-soprano range. Plus she struggled with her lower registers, which to me indicates that her natural range is that of a soprano. Generally speaking a mezzo should be able to go up to around an A5. A soprano would reasonalbly be expected to hit C6. Jackie tops out in her performances around Aflat5. It is quite likely she can sing higher than this but at present she doesnt. The lower notes are not in her current public repertoire, but are easily found in the material she has on YouTube before she was on AGT. Some of that stuff is really low for a soprano of any type - I would have to get a keyboard out to be sure, but somewhere around G3 seems likely Where she struggles is the transition between registers The notes you mentioned are the references in opera, not for sopranos in general. Actually, if C6 would be a requirement for being a soprano, there wouldn't be that many sopranos. A usual range for a non-opera soprano (for example for a choral soprano) goes from around C4 to A5, but Hayley can sing down to F3 and still be considered clearly a soprano. As I think Cattlin explained once, sopranos and mezzos can have the same range and the difference would be the most confortable range. Even in her recent AGT performances, we could notice lack of power in the lower notes, so I am pretty sure she is clearly a natural soprano (with all the doubts about the correctness of trying to classify a child's voice within categories meant for adult singers). If she keeps working on her lower register, and "forgets" her higher one, she may end up as a mezzo, but she has not the typical sound of a mezzo. I would also add to that the timbre the voice has: Faryl's or Katherine's voice, even without vibratto, is quite different to that of Jackie's. Michal |
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Post by martindn on Dec 5, 2010 0:18:17 GMT
Hi Albert, Welcome to the forum. Yes, you are right, her singing can only improve. But perfect or absolute pitch does not develop with time. In fact the opposite happens, many young children have it and lose it as they get older. Hayley had it at the age of six, and didn't lose it. Of course, pitch control can improve with training, and I'm sure Jackie will do so. And I think that avoiding too much training too soon is wise. Jackie has fantastic potential, and the biggest fear I have for her is that it will not be realised becuase to too much pressure, or commercial exploitation, too soon. She needs to have her childhood, and needs to be guided, but allowed to develop naturally. To do otherwise risks destroying her voice. There are so many pitfalls, yet I feel she is in good hands despite Mr Cowell's influence. Martin D Perfect pitch is innate. Absolute pitch can develop with time and training. In fact to the extent that she can sing acapella and immediately correct an off note on the next note suggests she already has absolute pitch - just not perfect control of her instrument yet Yes, that is true. It's terminology, I have always assumed perfect pitch to be the same thing as absolute pitch. ie the ability to sing any given not correctly without reference, as Hayley often demonstrates. That is something you have to be born with. Pitch perfect, on the other hand, means simply being able to sing perfectly in tune. That can be learned. Martin D |
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