Dave
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HWI Admin
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Post by Dave on Sept 17, 2010 11:38:47 GMT
OK, so as Joe said, we need to stick to discussing Jackie Evancho in this thread now, and not to continue debating the other matter. Opinions are polarised and it's unlikely that further debate on it will change anyone's mind in the short term.
Any further posts in this thread about "the other matter" will be looked at closely and may be removed.
Dave
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Post by mihizawi on Sept 17, 2010 18:01:11 GMT
Dave, you must have posted your previous post mentioning the Hot Topics feature right in the time I was writing mine, so I want to appologise for repeating your advice. If I knew I had nothing useful to add, I would surely not enter the discussion, as I am aware it is better for this thread and the whole forum to stay on topic. Said this, as I promised, back to Jackie! I will move back to the Jackie topic, I want to express my opinion, but I have some work to do (first week back in the university, very exciting, but already lots of work), so, I'll do that later. Michal Hi Michael, As an avid fan of Hayley from the U S I have to take exception with your post. I have traveled to the U K six times to see her in person at a considerable cost to me. Having said that I find it a bit disingenuous to fault people from recognizing a amazing talent like Jackie. Hopefully it's not because she's from the U S. Michael, Jackie is a phenom as recognized by the industry. Thus I find it somewhat strange that you need time to form an opinion that the rest of the world has already embraced as a genuine phenomena Well, Larry, I think you misunderstood me, of course, I have an opinion on Jackie, an excellent one indeed, as you may check from my previous post in this thread. What I meant is that I had work to do for the university in that moment, and so I didn't have the time to write down my thoughts and comments on Jackie's last two appearances on AGT... On this thread, I also pointed out the saturation of US musical market and how tough it is to keep alive on that market, but in no way I did ever say USA lacked talented people that deserve international recognition. Indeed, there are many American classical musicians at the very highest elite of Classical music, many of them have my admiration Oh, and to fan1, I think many people here would love a Hayley & Jackie duet, and I feel we won't have to wait too long for that. Well, now about the performances: Ave Maria is indeed a hard song, but Jackie did it just amazingly great, loved it so much (but, of course, not even near as much as Hayley's recording from River of Dreams, which is the most beautiful recording I've heard of that song). Most of the few negative critics on that performance focus on the lack of power in her lower notes. I think it is true that she doesn't have that much power, but I also think at least in one point, she lowered the volume deliberately (aka, gone piano), and that would have sounded just great if the backing music also was lowered... So, I think the point where you can barely hear Jackie, actually isn't Jackie's fault, but a musical direction fault. The duet with Sarah Brightman: Jackie was just awesome, she sung her part even better than she did on the semifinals. I have never been a big fan of Sarah Brightman, I have respect and admiration for her for being a pioneer on the genre and setting the standards, and she certainly used to sing very, very well, however her voice and the way she sings have rarely amazed me (probably the only song where she wowed me was Amigos Para Siempre, and of course, it was with my favorite male singer, Josep Carreras). Having said that, on this performance, Sarah surely didn't sound as magnificent as she used to, but was raher fine (disliked the vibratto too). Jackie was definately better than her idol this time, at least to me. Oh, and, yes, having seen all the finalists, Jackie definately deserved to win, but it is amazing how well she handled not winning: keeping the smile and almost immediately jumping to congratulate the winner... That really impressed me: hard to believe seeing a 10 year old girl handling so much preassure in such a mature and kind-hearted way. Finally, I think she deserved to win, but her main objective on the show is accomplished: America (and the world) knows her and this will launch her career (and also helped Nicola to spread the Classical Crossover awareness through america), I hope it lasts long and she can keep enjoying her singing passion for very long... I will certainly be very interested in what she will do next. Michal |
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Joe
Administrator
Supporting Hayley since 2003!
Posts: 6,715 
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Post by Joe on Sept 17, 2010 21:14:07 GMT
Hi all,
I gave a little hint for next Thursday...Jackie Evancho is scheduled to appear on the Tonight Show!
Joe
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Post by Jeff on Sept 18, 2010 10:57:10 GMT
I don't have a problem with our American members getting excited about Jackie Evancho. After all, she's a young lady worth getting excited about ! It's always great to see a new star breaking through. Remember how us Brits got excited about Faryl Smith a few years ago ? I seem to remember it was me who started a thread on her ! Interesting that both Faryl and Jackie failed to win but it never hurt Faryl and it won't hurt Jackie either. Good luck to her. I look forward to a guest appearance at a Hayley concert !! (We have to be tolerant. I don't like cats but I wouldn't complain about the photography thread!)
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Post by martindn on Sept 18, 2010 19:41:45 GMT
This is a young lady with a great future if she wants it, looks after her voice and doesn't try to do too much too soon. Like everyone else here I am excited by what I have seen and heard, and am looking forward to what she could be in 10 or 20 years time. I don' want to see her over expoited and burnt out now. That is the one fear I have.
Martin D
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Post by milewalker on Sept 18, 2010 21:47:12 GMT
Hi guys,
Martin D, your post suggests one possible debate. Actually, this might merit its own thread, but for the moment I will put it here.
It seems to me that there are two very logical approaches the Evancho's could take from this point forward. First, they could negotiate the best deal they can get now, and run with it. This would probably make them a lot of money very quickly. Alternatively, they could wait as long as Jackie allows, and then try to make a career out of it. It seems to me that both theories have strengths and weaknesses.
Hayley isn't a perfect case for this issue because the fact that she came from New Zealand effectively gave her a third option - gradual development and exposure in the public eye.
On the other hand, and argument could be made they the Evanchos have actually been following this to some degree because of all of the You Tube videos they released. Jackie was well known to several hundred thousand people. There were also all the local performances she was doing. Did you know the population of the Pittsburgh metro area is over half that of New Zealand?
Anyway, Charlotte took one route and Hayley took the other, and Jackie could possibly do something similar if not identical. The result is that Charlotte made a whole lot of money early and managed it fairly well despite her press clipping, and reserves enough voice to sell 200,000 or so copies of whatever she decides to release in the future. Hayley has probably preserved more voice - but may never catch Charlotte in total sales. I will leave earnings out of it, because I think Hayley likes to tour and Charlotte doesn't,
So, what should Jackie do? Or am I missing options?
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Post by nicola on Sept 18, 2010 22:09:50 GMT
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Post by milewalker on Sept 19, 2010 0:00:15 GMT
Great article Nicola,
I posted a reponse on your page. I dont know if it went through or not.
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Post by larryhauck on Sept 19, 2010 0:57:36 GMT
Hi guys, Martin D, your post suggests one possible debate. Actually, this might merit its own thread, but for the moment I will put it here. It seems to me that there are two very logical approaches the Evancho's could take from this point forward. First, they could negotiate the best deal they can get now, and run with it. This would probably make them a lot of money very quickly. Alternatively, they could wait as long as Jackie allows, and then try to make a career out of it. It seems to me that both theories have strengths and weaknesses. Hayley isn't a perfect case for this issue because the fact that she came from New Zealand effectively gave her a third option - gradual development and exposure in the public eye. On the other hand, and argument could be made they the Evanchos have actually been following this to some degree because of all of the You Tube videos they released. Jackie was well known to several hundred thousand people. There were also all the local performances she was doing. Did you know the population of the Pittsburgh metro area is over half that of New Zealand? Anyway, Charlotte took one route and Hayley took the other, and Jackie could possibly do something similar if not identical. The result is that Charlotte made a whole lot of money early and managed it fairly well despite her press clipping, and reserves enough voice to sell 200,000 or so copies of whatever she decides to release in the future. Hayley has probably preserved more voice - but may never catch Charlotte in total sales. I will leave earnings out of it, because I think Hayley likes to tour and Charlotte doesn't, So, what should Jackie do? Or am I missing options? You pose an interesting question. To take the money and run is a very tempting option. On the other hand a chance to become a lasting figure in the entertainment world is also worth a shot. My personal opinion is to follow Hayley's path. She has paced herself so as to let her career develop by paying her dues as she seems to be doing. I don't think her career is waning so i think she may have chosen the right path. Being in the U S Jackie has had an advantage of being exposed to a much larger audience than Hayley. Thus the temptation to go for the fast buck is much more attainable than it was with Hayley. It will be difficult for Jackie's folks to resist the money. However the American public is much more fickle than the Europeans are and child stars are discarded like gum wrappers. Quite a conundrum for Jackie's folks. I may be wrong but I think the path that Hayley is following will propel her to a lasting career. Larry |
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Post by mihizawi on Sept 19, 2010 1:14:08 GMT
I also would prefer a longer and established career for Jackie... She seems to enjoy singing so much that I tend to think she wants to sing for as long as she can. Also, Sarah Brighman's words about wanting Jackiie to keep her voice may have an effect on her in that direction.
Well, on Hayley vs Charlotte comparisons... I am not so sure that Hayley can't end up catching her on overall sales... In the wikipedia, they say ChCh had sold 11 million albums by 2007... I think I remember something like Hayley had sold 4 millions only of Pure and only in the UK by that date (correct me if I am wrong). 2 years after its release, River of Dreams keeps poping rather frequently in the Classical Charts... And, if Hayley has a very long career in front of her, as I imagine, who knows when she will get the chance to make another commercial boom.
Michal
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Post by larryhauck on Sept 19, 2010 1:46:31 GMT
Hi Michal,
After I read my response to your post I realized that I had misinterpret what you meant. Sorry about that.I promise to read more carefully in the future.
Best Wishes
Larry
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Post by milewalker on Sept 19, 2010 5:59:47 GMT
The problem is (help Dave! ;  ) ithat the classical charts dont really add up to that many sales. If my math is correct. Hayley would have to spend about 30 years at her current pace to match Charlotte even if CC sold no more records |
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Post by nicola on Sept 19, 2010 6:41:48 GMT
No, Pure sold 2 million albums worldwide. Hayley has sold 4 millions album worldwide overall. There are points in the year where you only need to sell a couple of hundred albums to top the classical chart. It really doesn't mean anything in terms of sales if Hayley enters the top 40 every now and again. Jon: If you are not a member of my site, comments are moderated, that's why it didn't appear. I have now approved one of your comments. |
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Post by milewalker on Sept 19, 2010 8:39:22 GMT
I also would prefer a longer and established career for Jackie... She seems to enjoy singing so much that I tend to think she wants to sing for as long as she can. Also, Sarah Brightman's words about wanting Jackiie to keep her voice may have an effect on her in that direction. Well, on Hayley vs Charlotte comparisons... I am not so sure that Hayley can't end up catching her on overall sales... In the wikipedia, they say ChCh had sold 11 million albums by 2007... I think I remember something like Hayley had sold 4 millions only of Pure and only in the UK by that date (correct me if I am wrong). 2 years after its release, River of Dreams keeps poping rather frequently in the Classical Charts... And, if Hayley has a very long career in front of her, as I imagine, who knows when she will get the chance to make another commercial boom. Michal Just to put my thinking into writing, Hayley is selling at most 200,000 a year - in fact, Dave can correct me but her current pace is likely somewhat less than that. If the number I have are correct, which show Charlotte at 11 million and Hayley somewhere close to 5, it will take about 30 years for Hayley to catch Charlotte. Voice of an Angel sold close to 3 million in the US alone, and that in conjuction with Dream a Dream about 5 million. Since her second album also sold around a million, that makes 6 million sales in the US alone by the time she was 15. Jackie is American, so it doesnt take a genious to see that her ceiling is somewhere in that range assumijng the right recording deal If, as I suspect the "shelf life" of any classically influenced artist is 5 years at most, why not go for it? |
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Post by mihizawi on Sept 19, 2010 9:35:38 GMT
"5 years of shelf life"? Huh, you are comparing Jackie to the "child stars"... But let's look higher: Sarah Brightman, Andrea Bocelli and other really big names of the genre... Their careers survived much longer than 5 years from the initial commercial boom. And Hayley is not just a "Child star" anymore, she may not have the media exposure and commercial success of those, but I think she can be considered one of those "big names" in the genre: Jackie mentions her as one of her references, and as far as I have read, she doesn't mention Charlotte. I don't think, like you, that Hayley is a fading star, I think she has a solid career now: singing in the closing ceremony of the world expo isn't something that small, for example. And a solid career of such a talented artist can easily have a second and even third commercial boom... Jackie seems to love singing and music enough to want this kind of long career.
Michal
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) ithat the classical charts dont really add up to that many sales. If my math is correct. Hayley would have to spend about 30 years at her current pace to match Charlotte even if CC sold no more records