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Post by nicola on Sept 10, 2010 21:41:21 GMT
Hey Kim,
Yeah, I did. Much better choice. Not that I am a huge fan of Andrew Lloyd Webber's 'Pie Jesu' (I was once, but like Time To Say Goodbye...), but it's so much more suitable for Jackie's voice. She needs slow expressive pieces.
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Post by Libby on Sept 11, 2010 4:57:34 GMT
Yes, she does.
Someone else was commenting on how she's forcing her voice. That she's training it too much, and they're worried she'll get nodules. Do you think that's true. And I'm confused. If she's not going to sing opera, why is she on the show?
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Post by nicola on Sept 11, 2010 5:37:16 GMT
Yes, she does. Someone else was commenting on how she's forcing her voice. That she's training it too much, and they're worried she'll get nodules. Do you think that's true. And I'm confused. If she's not going to sing opera, why is she on the show? If you want to become an opera singer, AGT is not the avenue. There's no reason for any aspiring opera singer to go on there. Jackie is hoping for a recording career in classical crossover. And all kinds of people are saying all kinds of things about her voice. I wouldn't really just pick and choose which to listen to. She has a vocal coach that I trust to know what they are doing - they know her voice best and know how to nurture it. Lisa told me that this is all her vocal coach is doing - just taking care of her voice. |
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Post by milewalker on Sept 11, 2010 5:38:21 GMT
Hi Libby,
I guess I wasnt clear above. The whole mass appeal thing that Jackie is tapping into lies in the fascination for the "big voice/little body" that a lot of people have. Listen to the comments by Sharon Osbourne after the first performance. In the short term at least, Jackie is just trying to win.
Any piece of music she can do which exploits that effect tends to help her in a competition like this - provided of course that she can perform it adequately. Even in the case of a song like Time to Say Goodbye, there is more than one way to perform it, and Jackie chose the more operatic style, as opposed to the version we all have heard from Hayley. If she performed on AGT like she sang Memory, or on her softer version of OMBC, she almost certainly wouldnt get as far in the competition.
Nicola - I spent several years studying music and voice, resulting in what we call a minor in the American education system. I know a dozens voice coaches (or did 30 years ago anyway). I dont know any of them who would have sanctioned the way Jackie is singing on that show. Her other videos are another matter entirely, of course.
For the record, I hope I'm wrong.
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Post by mihizawi on Sept 11, 2010 11:46:17 GMT
Nicola and Steve, Nicola, there are discusions ad nauseam about Hayley, the direction of her career, and the dynamics which support it buried on this forum. I was one of the most active (and certainly most irritating  )participants at the time I would strongly suggest you actually go and read them before you decide to call me naive. I am fully aware the of industry changes with regard to the dynamics between artists and the record companies. I would suggest that a successful career is one which produces enough objective achievements which can be talked about and shared by people on websites like this. One reason why things like total album sales or chart placement have been useful in the past is simply because such traditional measures of success fit this criterion. We can argue about what the sales of Charlotte Church vs Sarah Brightman might mean, but the numbers themselves are indisputable. One of the first things we heard about Jackie Evancho was the success of her AGT performance videos on the internet. That too is something which can be counted. However, another possibly more important mark of a successful career is simply the size of the profile of the artist. Call it media imprint. Traditionally album sales may be directly beneficial only the to the record company, but they also generate profile, which results indirectly in touring and more touring which in turn produces more profile. There is a simple reason why my participation in discussions on this site varies dramatically. Months come and go without a single discussion topic coming up where I am placed to make a contribution. The primary reason for this is that Hayley really has no profile in the US at all. So, call be naive, but my main criteria of success is that a career be big enough to produce a measurable profile over here - or perhaps the career should be big enough over there to produce a profile big enough that they even attempt to tour widely here. What are the odds that any of the artists we discussed above will ever play Powell Symphony Hall in St Louis? Hayley has appeared as a solo act one time within 500 miles of me in her entire career. The dynamics are such that even an American act can only sustain a major tour with major corporate backing. The decline of the importance of CD sales and record company power only makes that kind of support more important. Without corporate backing, most international acts get about as far as a couple of appearance in New York or Los Angeles. Unfortunately, while Yulia may be able to support herself (and that is certainly a good thing) careers of that size wont appear more than once or twice in a lifetime. That makes any participation of Jon the fan in her career nearly impossible. Steve - your possibilities are not mutually exclusive. Such side possibilities arise from a high profile as well dont they? So does the possibility that she might actually be able to pull off a reasonably substantial career without major corporate backing. I am not saying that will happen merely that it is a possibility. Do you often combine german and french words into phrases for English sentances?  Jon Hi Jon, I hope you don't mind me saying that from what you write, I have the feeling of it being an american-centred vision. A career can be very successful without having to be based on the states, Hayley had the chance to base her career on the States, but she seemed to prefer London as her base... Her international career also seems to be far from being USA dependent, he has been focusing lately on Asian countries such as Japan, Taiwan, etc, and she seems to be very succesful there. The fact she isn't known in the USA, doesn't mean she doesn't have an international appeal. I am not saying that you, as a fan, shouldn't wish that she visits your country, that's a very legitimate wish. Michal |
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Post by martindn on Sept 11, 2010 22:08:40 GMT
My fear is that Jackie has the sort of appeal that will sell well, especially in America. America seems to love child stars, especially if they are American. So Simon Cowell can see that there id huge potential for Jackie whilst she is young. The danger is that she will burn out, that when she gets older she will be forgotten. Cowell won't worry about that, he will have made his pile, but I fear for what it might do to Jackie.
Record companies can and do do cynical things. Like signing up a promising artist, then burying them, since they might be seen as competition for an already established artist on their books. So they get to make records, they just don't get any promotion, nobody knows about them and of course however good they might be, they don't sell. But the artist is contracted, and kept out of the hands of other record companies who might use the artist to hurt sales of the established artist.
I don't think that will happen to Jackie though. She IS being promoted and will be exploited. But for short term gain I think. If she is wise she will move away from Simon Cowell, if she can, but it may already be too late. Jackie's voice is remarkable for a 10 year old. When she is 20 or 30, even if she manages to avoid damaging her voice, she will be just another singer, and no longer have the child singer appeal. Things could get a lot harder. It might be better for her in the long term if she took things a great deal more slowly.
Martin D
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Post by milewalker on Sept 12, 2010 2:09:06 GMT
Michal, I suppose that being American, my "vision", might tend to be somewhat America-centric. However, I think you misread what I was saying (or I mis-wrote it). None of the criteria I set require an American base. Most of them do require an American presence There is a difference. Martin D. One of the things I tried to suggest above is that the general type -young female crossover singers - seem to have a relatively short shelf life of stardom in the best of cases. This is not to say that they do not continue to have functioning careers. Given Jackie;s age, she is probably noticeably better month to month. I cannot imagine a scenario where she isn't a whole lot better at 15 than she is now, provided of course that the doesn't damage her voice in the interim. I think it is possible - maybe even likely - that she can make enough out of this in five years to support a lesser career the rest of her life if that is what she wishes to do. In this case, I hope I'm right |
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Post by stevemacdonald on Sept 12, 2010 3:58:27 GMT
...I think it is possible - maybe even likely - that she can make enough out of this in five years to support a lesser career the rest of her life if that is what she wishes to do. ... Or maybe an alternative career in movies or TV, **SPAM? PLEASE REPORT la Judy Garland and Miley Cyrus? Don't bet against it. Jackie is just what Disney has been hiring for over 50 years: smart, talented and telegenic kids who first get exposure and popularity via talent shows (like Britney and Christina did as 10-year-olds). My money is on Jackie becoming a double- or triple-threat presence across the board over the next five years. Singing and recording will be a big deal, but so will the other stuff. Her style of singing may change dramatically to suit her success. At the very least, she's probably going to be more of a mezzo in time, so maybe that will affect her overall choices. I see her eventually sounding like Celine Dion, but without the Quebec accent. |
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Post by Libby on Sept 12, 2010 4:33:41 GMT
No, no, no, Jackie is not Disney material, unless perhaps she sings for a leading princess cartoon role, or something. You know, like Hayley did Mulan II (although Jackie would probably get something bigger than that).
Okay, I understand that Jackie's doing opera to wow people as much as possible. However, I think her more "natural" singing voice is good enough for people to have voted for her.
And if she's not going to pursue opera as her musical career, won't viewers of AGT be disappointed? Hopefully not really, but that's why I'm wondering about her doing opera on the show if that's not what she ultimately wants to do. Won't Simon Cowell want her to do it at least for the first album he produces for her?
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Post by milewalker on Sept 12, 2010 6:03:50 GMT
Hi Libby I think that Jackie will be expected to sing the same songs on the upcoming tour as on the show. Having said this, only one song she sang was technically "opera". The other songs had more to do with the way she delevered them than the music itself. She might be able to phase back a little - in fact she may have already been doing this with "Pie Jesu" After the show, I really dont think that the people who will be following her will make distinctions that precisely. The fewer people who realize that "Pie Jesu" is not opera, the better off she will be. I think the upcoming album is too far out to even speculate about. For one thing her voice could change dramatically in three months, as it has been for the past year or so. Where her voice is at that point will likely affect the content of the album. I agree btw that Jackie might have a higher ceiling than Disney - it might have been better Steve if you had left Miley out of the picture However, the word "Hollywood" came out of Jackies mouth the first full interview she did. |
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Post by mihizawi on Sept 12, 2010 10:25:02 GMT
Hi Jon and Libby,
First, I understood, Jon, what you meant. However, I was only pointing out that, to measure the success of an international singing career focusing only in the presence or profile the artist has in only one country is rather inaccurate, even if it's the USA.
I would even go further, (correct me if I am wrong) saying that the USA may be the biggest market in many aspects, but it also suffers saturation: there's very few places for newbies in the market, and those are out of reach without an important and expensive media exposure. Also, I have the feeling that keeping a profile and noticeable presence in the US market requires sacrificinng artistic freedom, even more than in other markets. As to that last point, Jackie and her parents seem to have lots of strength and determination on choosing her path, I wonder if they will be able to keep that for long.
And, yes, Libby, I was about to say the same thing Jon did: Jackie's only true opera aria was O Mio Babbino Caro. You should already know that one thing is singing operatically in a certain degree (as many Classical Crossover singers do) and another very different thing is to sing Opera reaching its technical standards (I said, I imagined Jackie reaching those very early if wanted, but at this time she is certainly not singing Opera pieces nor has reached the Opera standards). Of course, there's a very big amount of people that can't tell the difference, but Jackie is well aware of it.
And, on Jackie being a movie star, well, as I said, she has the charm, stage/screen pressence and some acting qualities that would certainly make her a great actress. But for now, it seems clear her passion is singing, who knows if she would really enjoy being an actress. Time will say.
Michal
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Post by stevemacdonald on Sept 12, 2010 19:23:24 GMT
... And, on Jackie being a movie star, well, as I said, she has the charm, stage/screen pressence and some acting qualities that would certainly make her a great actress. But for now, it seems clear her passion is singing, who knows if she would really enjoy being an actress. Time will say. ... Hi Michal and all, If only it were that simple. Once anyone achieves recognition and popularity they become a commodity worth promoting. Jackie's growing fame will make her someone Hollywood will go out of its way to capture. It doesn't mean she'll be a movie star, but it could lead to small roles that lead to bigger roles that lead to her own TV series or major parts in musicals. The talent development industry drools over truly talented young kids. There is an excellent reason Justin Bieber and Miley Cyrus became superstars: they came along at the right time to exploit/be-exploited-by the hungry entertainment system. I sense it smells gold in Jackie because she utterly wows the heck out of people -- maybe not the uber-connoisseurs, but certainly the everyday carnival-goers like the judges on AGT who represent everyday taste. Hollywood is cynical and has enough dough to tempt anyone, especially the idealistic and innocent, into becoming part of the team. I cannot see them passing by this golden opportunity to make Jackie into a megastar whether that is what she envisions for herself or not. Of course, those of you who bristle in horror at that possibility will downplay its likelihood. Commodities are made to be obsolete, but in rare cases they can be successfully re-invented. If Jackie gets the proper training in theatrical work, her chances of evolving with the times will be greater when the "phenomenon" stage of her career has run its course. |
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Post by Libby on Sept 12, 2010 20:32:28 GMT
Yes, I know those songs weren't opera, I'm just going by the way she was singing it, and what people think of it. I don't know. Never mind. We'll worry about it when the time comes, I guess.
I was just "bristling in horror" at the thought of putting her in silly Disney shows like Hannah Montana. She's too good for that, I should think.
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Joe
Administrator
Supporting Hayley since 2003!
Posts: 6,715 
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Post by Joe on Sept 13, 2010 2:51:26 GMT
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Post by 1fan on Sept 14, 2010 4:01:02 GMT
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)participants at the time I would strongly suggest you actually go and read them before you decide to call me naive. I am fully aware the of industry changes with regard to the dynamics between artists and the record companies.
