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Post by natalie on Feb 13, 2009 21:01:59 GMT
Mods sorry I do not know where else to put it
This is from empire lady over on Jonathan's OS
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Post by stevemacdonald on Feb 13, 2009 21:49:31 GMT
The mind is the best camera of all. I'm no photographer, but I find that when I attend a concert the visual images I experience directly will far surpass anything captured on film or pixels. Even the best pics I've seen of Hayley are less than adequate to convey her true presence.
May I suggest that for situations where cameras are frowned upon one invest in a good memory stick for the mind. Heh.
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Dave
Administrator
HWI Admin
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Post by Dave on Feb 13, 2009 22:15:01 GMT
Mods sorry I do not know where else to put it This is from empire lady over on Jonathan's OS Hi Natalie, That is absolutely correct, although they may have the right to refuse entry to the premises if you refuse a bag search on entry. The only thing the concert hall staff can do legally once you are inside is ask you to leave the premises if you refuse their request to stop taking photographs. Staff have no power to require the deletion of any photographs taken and they certainly cannot require you to format the card or erase everything on it. But they can ask you to leave the concert, so if they give you a choice of one or the other, you have to decide what to do. They are entitled (I think) to refuse permission for you to take a camera into the concert hall, so if they are doing bag searches and find one, they may ask you to deposit the camera in an office for the duration of the concert. This happened to people with large "professional looking" cameras (including me), at the iTunes Koko concert in London last year. I have no idea what the legal position is if the camera is stolen whilst in their possession! For the above reasons, if I suspect that there may be any problems at a concert, I leave it until near the end before taking any photos as by then, they are unlikely to bother ejecting me if I refuse a request to delete photos... or if they do throw me out, I won't miss much of the concert. I've made Kay's post from Jonathan's forum into a quote (in your post above) but if you can post a link to it, that would be helpful, thanks. Cheers, Dave |
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Post by natalie on Feb 14, 2009 8:58:47 GMT
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Post by Karsten on Feb 14, 2009 14:44:24 GMT
Hi Natalie, Thanks to you and to empire lady fort the hint. Taking photographs seems to be an ever revolving topic. First of all, it’s obviously that people go to concerts to enjoy the music. On the other hand a few photos could be a good ‘memory stick’ to refresh someone’s memory. If I set aside copyright reasons which are probably not as crucial, what would be the problem taking a few photos IF you neither disturb the artist(s) nor the auditorium. Having in mind Oxford there was the announcement, that no FLASH photography would be permitted. But the result was that just after Jonathan’s appearance at the very beginning of the concert there were at least five flashes from the auditorium behind me – that was more than 30 feet from the stage. That’s firstly the opposite of no disturbance of the artist and secondly completely senseless if I probably guess correctly that no external flash devices were used. Therefore I can understand that the staff being responsible for an undisturbed event was a bit upset. BTW and frankly speaking I’ve no idea how Hayley (and Jonathan) deals with the flashes (after the concert or on the red carpet). On the other hand – if you can’t use flash and want to take sharp pictures of a person in motion (and e.g. Hayley is in motion anytime) on a more or less dark stage, you need a ‘professional looking’ camera with a reliable AF (even without AF assistance lamp) and a good sensor up to ISO 3200 or 6400. To my mind therefore it is the wrong way to sort out the ‘big’ cameras and to permit the small ones. The latter simply don’t do the job – but of course I’ve to confess that I’m a bit biased.  Cheers, Karsten |
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Post by martindn on Feb 14, 2009 23:42:05 GMT
Hi Natalie,
Yes, I have wondered about the legal position myself.
I can understand the point about flash, and would never use it myself during a performance. At many venues, you are to far away from the stage for flash to be of use anyway. But it can still distract the performers.
At the NIA before Cristmas I was at a Katherine Jenkins concert, and there were cameras flashing all over the place. I didn't take mine and regretted it when I saw that. But I still would not have used flash!
To take sharp photos in most indoor concerts without flash requires a good quality camera, an SLR or high end compact. They lnew this at iTunes Koko, and as Dave knows since he was with me there, I walked straight in carrying a small compact and a mobile whone camera, and Dave had his camera confiscated.
The cameras that I had were next to useless anyway, since it was very dark in that place. But I did get one or two photos that are posted on the relevant thread. They aren't great, but are better than nothing.
It would be interesting to know if I would have got my present Panasonic FZ28 in - a compact camera that has a high sensitivity setting allowing photos to be taken in near darkness. It can also take high quality videos. But since it doesn not have a removable lens, it might not have qualified as "professional".
Tat being said, another member who followed me in did manage to smuggle in a camcorder.
Martin
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Post by roger on Feb 15, 2009 0:14:33 GMT
A post was made last year by englishstgeorge which included a very helpful paragraph about this very topic. Englishstgeorge is a service police officer. This is what he said concerning the rights of security staff at concert venues: If you wish to read it in context, it is on the Kilworth thread here. Because the post is so long, I have highlighted the relevant part in red. Scroll down until you see it! Please be aware that the event which was being discussed at the time is in the UK. The law may be different in other countries. Roger |
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Post by Libby on Feb 15, 2009 5:38:46 GMT
The mind is the best camera of all. I'm no photographer, but I find that when I attend a concert the visual images I experience directly will far surpass anything captured on film or pixels. I am the same way when I go to concerts and shows. I don't take pictures; it's much easier to enjoy the show without feeling pressured with getting special shots. It is nice to have pictures from it, but I remember the experience the most. I leave the picture-taking to my sister, usually. However, I do love to see Hayley's concert pictures, because I don't get to see her there myself. Whenever there's a Hayley concert, coming here to see the photos is always at the top of my list of things I need to do on the computer!  |
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Post by drew on Feb 15, 2009 11:11:35 GMT
That being said, another member who followed me in did manage to smuggle in a camcorder. Martin, I didn't realise that you knew you were being followed! |
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Post by postscript on Feb 15, 2009 15:30:05 GMT
I understand your sentiment, Libby but in your post you hit on the contradiction. I too completely lose myself in the performance but as you said there are so many here who appreciate the efforts of our 'staff' phographers.
Their efforts help to spread the word. Although there are many here who can write a few thousand words to complement each photograph!
Peter S.
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Post by martindn on Feb 15, 2009 17:23:44 GMT
Hi Drew,
Yes, but then you disappeared, and I wondered where you had gone!
Steve and Libby,
My own memory works differently. The sounds linger in my memory for ever, especially the glorious sound of a Hayley live performance. But I don't remember pictures so well, especially not in detail.
I agree it is always tempting to simply sit and enjoy the music, but I also know that if I can get a few photos or a video they will act as a reminder and enable me to share my enjoyment of the performance with others who didn't have the privilege to be there. I feel that since I enjoy so many reports and pictures here, I should do my bit when I can to repay the kindness of those who creaye them and make them available.
For example I am already excited about our "Sunday Night at the London Palladium", even though I'm not going, because I know some who are will share their experience with the rest of us.
Martin
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Post by stevemacdonald on Feb 15, 2009 17:31:07 GMT
I understand your sentiment, Libby but in your post you hit on the contradiction. I too completely lose myself in the performance but as you said there are so many here who appreciate the efforts of our 'staff' phographers. Their efforts help to spread the word. Although there are many here who can write a few thousand words to complement each photograph! Peter S. But even though their efforts help others connect with Hayley, too many images might dull some people's willingness to get out and attend her gigs. Sorta like the parallel issue about illegal downloads disinclining people to buy her songs. I love a good concert review with accompanying photos as much as the next guy, especially when HWI members do the writing and snapping. However, they might be doing too good a job because I've vicariously attended dozens upon dozens of shows by this point. An actual gig for me would be lacking in surprise, suspense or sustained focus, especially if I felt it were now "my turn" to do the reporting. As a matter of fact, I find Grant's reviews so thoroughly informative and entertaining that if I never see another Hayley concert I have the next best thing and it doesn't cost me a nickel. |
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Post by martindn on Feb 15, 2009 17:44:59 GMT
Hi Steve,
Point taken, but I can honestly save that I have never been dissuaded from attending a concert because I knew there would be a review, or been persuaded not to buy any of her albums by the existence of illegal download sites.
However good the review, photo or video, being there is better. Something magical happens at Hayley's concerts, and although the reports help you to imagine what it must have been like, there is no substitute for actually being there.
I'm still trying to get over that fabulous video of Amigos Para Siempre from Reading. BTW, does that song add another to the list of languages Hayleyhas sung in (Spanish).
Martin
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Post by tracytcb on Feb 17, 2009 9:16:54 GMT
I think this will always be an ongoing issue.
The problem is that at a lot of places you get power-happy jobsworth security people. The things I've seen some of them do just because someone took a picture!
I myself had a lecture from one last year and was told I could be arrested! Do they think the police will waste their time arresting a young girl for taking pictures of singers on stage? I don't think so!
And there is no way they would get me to erase my memory card either. Perhaps if I put the card down my bra they wouldn't be so keen to retrieve it! Ha ha!
I saw one guard actually climb over audience members at a G4 gig (while G4 were perfoming on the stage) to tell someone in the middle of a row to not take pics. A little later G4 themselves told us it was okay to take pics.
That sort of thing creates resentment and makes a bad atmosphere. It's not nice.
At the Valentines tour they say no FLASH photography, so photography without a flash I would have thought to be acceptable? nes pas?
I took some pics at the Palladium and will post them when I get home tonight.
Tracy xxxx
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dilog
New Member 
Posts: 41
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Post by dilog on Feb 17, 2009 12:10:28 GMT
I think you will find that at a concert the copyright of any pictures or video or audio recording belong to the artist - so if you are asked not to take photos or videos you are infringing copyright legislation.
This apparently was added to some programmes
Di
I enlarged the text in the quote.
Richard
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