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Post by jimg on Jul 22, 2008 21:01:14 GMT
Hi all, Grant, Mark, Martin and George, Thanks for the reports and photos, I managed a few photos of the house and grounds.
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Post by jimg on Jul 22, 2008 21:05:58 GMT
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Post by martindn on Jul 22, 2008 21:10:39 GMT
3. One of the dances from Khachturians ballet Gayeneh. I can never remember which is which. *Guessing* Might it have been the Sabre Dance, Martin? That is probably the best know from Gayeneh. Roger Hi Roger, No, it wasn't that one, I would have been able to put a name to it if it had been, and I don't think it was the Dance of the Maidens either, although that is the name that came to mind when I heard it. Martin
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Post by jimg on Jul 22, 2008 21:25:19 GMT
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Post by jimg on Jul 22, 2008 21:32:26 GMT
Here are two grab shots of Hayley right at the end. Setting up for Sonny. Acknowledging the applause just before leaving the stage for the final time.
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Post by david on Jul 22, 2008 21:38:52 GMT
Hi all, Many thanks Martin, Grant, Mark, and Jim for all the reports and photos posted here, I'm glad that you and everyone else there had such an enjoyable concert! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif It certainly looks like a great setting for Hayley to be performing in. I'm very glad the misunderstanding was sorted out in the end and you got to meet Hayley, for which she deserves full credit! Cheers David
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Post by Andy on Jul 22, 2008 22:16:52 GMT
Hi all Just read through all your posts, it's been great to catch up on events at Kilworth. Sounds as if Hayley was on top form again, just as she was at Gawsworth on Sunday. Glad everyone had a lovely evening. It sounds like quite an 'eventful' time afterwards! The only thing I would add is that Hayley stops to chat to fans of her own free will, just as she did with us on Sunday. When she arrived at Gawsworth, she obviously recognised fairly familiar faces and was quite willing to approach and chat to us (OK it helped having Bethany with us!). Then after the concert, we hung around to give her a wave, but she asked that the car be stopped and got out, which was a lovely surprise and gesture. She's probably so used to people waiting for her, I should think she would be slightly disappointed if there was no-one to greet her! She's just such a nice person. Anyway, roll on the next concert! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif
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Post by timj on Jul 22, 2008 23:01:47 GMT
Thanks for the reports, (all's well that ends well!). Thanks for the pix Jim.................TimJ
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Post by graemek on Jul 22, 2008 23:18:14 GMT
Hi Everyone & thanks for all the pics & reports. I would just like to reinforce Hayley's "amazingness". This concert proves it once again in every respect. How does she do it? Graeme
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Post by grant on Jul 22, 2008 23:26:25 GMT
Hello Martin, Andrew and everyone.
Martin, you are quite correct about the white paper, it was the set list. I actually copied it in the interval so as not to distract Hayley by writing songs down as they were announced.
Your photo's are great, particularly the one with the renegades!
Thanks also for identifying some of the Raven's pieces. From the set list they were down as performing two pieces to open the second half, which obviously had breaks resulting in us thinking they had finished! I think we got the message towards the end, hence no clapping.
Andrew, Hayley told us that the Ravens couldn't do all the dates for ROD, so I presume they will be Hayley's main support with an alternative for the dates they can't do. She didn't expand on that so they may still be looking for alternatives.
Best wishes Grant
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Post by grant on Jul 22, 2008 23:43:44 GMT
Hi Graeme and everyone
I think this incident just proves the point that Hayley does love to meet her fans after a concert and, I'm sure, expects some of us to be waiting for her afterwards, particularly when she has seen that we occupy most of the front row.
I can't belive I'm saying this, but it seems quite possible that ending a concert with a "Hi Guys!" for a few fans is as special for Hayley as it is for us.
Andy suggested that she might even be a little disappointed should there be no one waiting for her and I can quite believe that also to be true.
She is certainly more aware of her fans than anyone else I know and long may she remain so!
Best wishes Grant
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Post by englishstgeorge on Jul 23, 2008 0:22:11 GMT
Hi everyone, I don't mean to start dragging stuff up, especially as i have just started posting here, but as a serving Police Officer, I thought it may be beneficial for me to clarify some of the legal points that i have seen mentioned in the thread... I have tried a little humour, but i come across in typeface as being sarcastic, I don't mean to be, so i apologise in advance if any of it reads that way, in my defence, it is 1am! If this scenario takes place on Private property, then the owner of said property is perfectly within their rights to lay down rules and enforce them. However, they must ask you to leave and if you refuse to do so, they, or people acting as their agents may use reasonable force with which to do so. Reasonable force is hard to describe legally, what constitutes reasonable? Human Rights lawyers are using the word minimum instead of reasonable. Reasonable force may simply be saying, "If you do not leave immediately, i shall have to escort you out" If the person then leaves, you have used reasonable force. What constitutes reasonable is really shaky legally and a lot of people have landed themselves in trouble by being a bit "over eager" so to speak. Almost any use of violence would be seen by a court as unreasonable, as would be the use of any kind of weapon. If this takes place in a public place, such as on the pavement outside the theatre, then he has no right to ask you to move anywhere. Only a Police Officer can ask you to move, if you are causing an obstruction. It is a criminal offence to obstruct free passage along a highway, which includes Footpaths, Cycle Paths and Roads. Even this depends on the reasonableness of your behaviour, if there are 60 of you blocking the path at 3 o'clock on a Saturday afternoon in Oxford Street, the Saturday before Christmas, then i will ask you to move. If there are ten of you stood outside a Theatre at 11 o'clock at night and the street is almost empty, I won't say anything (well, maybe Hello, Good evening!) To the best of my knowledge, there is no law preventing anyone looking at vehicles. Providing they are acting lawfully, yes, that is correct. I think using 7/7 and 9/11 comparisons are a little over the top, given the context. Anti terrorism legislation has been passed in the UK to deal with terrorism threats and should not be misused by anyone in Authority to deal with non terrorism situations. Hayley's staff are precisely that, staff. Whilst i have no doubt that if she was accompanied by professional security staff, they may have advised her against the course of action she took, it is still her decision as to who she wants to speak to and when. The U.S. Constitution is irrelevant in the UK. Use of unreasonable force would likely lead to the Security Guard's arrest. If he was carrying a nightstick he would be arrested for Possession of a Offensive Weapon in a Public Place which carries a maximum 4 years in prison. A firearm could lead to a maximum 7 year sentence. Legally, they are quite entitled to stand outside a hotel entrance, provided it is a Public Place. And as her Manager, you would bar her fans from events? The fact that Hayley was prepared to stop would to me suggest that she knows her own mind and the course of action you suggest would not have been welcomed by her. Harassment is a Criminal Offence, but if she was feeling harassed, surely she would have driven past, had the gates closed and called the Police. The first bit is OK in the UK, give a warning, then eject, using reasonable force (see above). However, you have no right in the UK to damage or confiscate camera equipment, nor do you have the power to look at, or delete photographs from a camera. This action would lead to the persons arrest for Assault and /or Criminal Damage. I wouldn't need to sue, i would have the pleasure of watching you being cuffed and carted off. i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gifGood, Obstruction of the Highway, Breach of the Peace and the Public Order Act all spring to mind! I doubt it, unless she has stalkers etc. that don't get discussed in Public. If there was any suggestion of a threat, i would imagine she would have a Personal Protection Officer with her, either Civilian or Police. As a Police Officer, behaving like that, I wouldn't last 5 minutes in the job. If i have to resort to threats of force with a weapon, because someone told me i had no credibility, I don't deserve to wear my uniform. I can just imagine it in court, "Yes your Honour, I battered him into a Coma with my Baton, after he was already rolling in agony on the floor following a good dose of Pepper Spray. It was a disgrace your Honour, he said i wasn't credible! It's just a pity my gun jammed." Probably just as well we aren't armed! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gifAgreed! The UK now has rules in place covering the licensing of security staff. There are as ever, loopholes, but the following site is quite interesting... www.the-sia.org.uk/homeOn the subject of Photography in general, the photographing of someone in a Public Place is Lawful. The key point is whether the place is one in which a person can expect a reasonable level of privacy. Taking a picture of someone walking down a Public Footpath is OK, whereas using a Telephoto Lens to photograph someone sitting in their living room is not. You are free to take pictures of anyone in a public place and use the Photographs as you wish, this includes selling them for a commercial gain. Mark
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Post by xcv462 on Jul 23, 2008 4:13:22 GMT
Great posts and pictures,I'm glad you all had a great time.
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Post by fusilier23 on Jul 23, 2008 4:41:53 GMT
As an American lawyer I need to point some things up of my own:
Mark and I appear to be on the same page at first, private property is private property, and the owner can boot you off if you don't follow his rules. Reasonable force varies from one area of the country to another as a practical matter. The cities allow almost no use of force, but Florida, for example, has what's called a Castle Law, meaning property owners can use deadly force on their own property.
Yes, technically no one is supposed to order you around on the public street except the police, but private security do it all the time, and especially where entrances to buildings are concerned. They can order you not to block an entrance or exit, and if you don't in all likelihood they will take action and you will not get your autograph anyway. If they don't arrest you themselves they will detain you and call the police who will arrest you.
No one ever said looking at vehicles was illegal. Stalking is, though, and following a celebrity from a place of performance to where they are staying could be interpreted as such. The courts will usually side with the celebs, as this type of conduct is something they want to deter, and also the celebs tend to have better lawyers.
Obviously the US Constitution means nothing in the UK, which hasn't even got a written constitution, what I was saying is that in the US, the protections afforded by our Constitution do not apply on private property, which is why, say, protesters can gather on Main Street, but not in a mall, which is private property. Your right of assembly means nothing in the US in a private theater. Security Guards in the US are in fact allowed to carry nightsticks and weapons if licensed, and many do, in fact many are retired police officers who retain their rights to carry and use weapons. The actual licensing procedures vary state to state, of course.
It's also a fact that in court, it's essentially the arrestee's word against the officer's and guess who the courts usually believe? Right. The same holds true with security.
I would be very surprised if a police officer or security guard who "educated" a citizen by telling him to get moving or he would regret it while tapping his weapon got so much as a reprimand. I discipline police officers for a living, in fact, and I can tell you a civilian complaint against an officer who did that wouldn't even get past the command level. Unless you actually lay hands on someone, it's nowhere near terminable.
Obviously there's a difference in the camera issue here. I can tell you that in the US you can be ordered to erase memory and before the prevalent use of digital cameras it was common for security types to tear the film out of cameras. The courts sided with the venues, usually. Breaking cameras was a bit extreme, though it would be fun to see a dismayed fan as you smashed his $500.00 digital camera to pieces, but the police here wouldn't care one whit if you complained to them, matters like homicides and shootings kinda take precedence. As for someone who got thumped on by the police or security, he better hope he has a a gaggle of witnesses of good character who will vouch for him, or his case is going nowhere. Otherwise, the officers will back each other up, and he's dead in the water.
The rules about photography are essentially the same here, as Celtic Woman found out much to their chagrin when they were not able to stop "street" photography (though they are VERY strict about any in-venue photography).
I could give more, but it's getting late.
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Joe
Administrator
Supporting Hayley since 2003!
Posts: 6,693
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Post by Joe on Jul 23, 2008 5:31:30 GMT
OK. I think everything has been covered quite well. Thanks for expressing your views.
Let's move on.
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