Jillian
Global Moderator
Posts: 3,050
|
Post by Jillian on Nov 3, 2009 22:50:55 GMT
But the crucial element is to get the exposure. The music alone can't speak for itself if people have never heard it.
Occassionally one can get a 'windfall' -- a bit like what happened with the World Games in Taiwan. However, in the UK it's probable that to forge a more prominent position in the public conscience, Hayley needs to start slowly building a media presence. Appearances at Poppy Appeal launches / Festival of Rememberance all contribute to this. The occassional picture in the newspaper or a couple of column inches can make a difference.
One thing I struggle with is the apparent perception that incorporating image into the marketing of an artist is somehow 'fake'. I, for one, take artists as a whole. Part of the reason I like Hayley so much is not just her beautiful voice, but the fact that she's a really sweet, nice person. I admire many of the things she does and it really is part of the whole package. For me, it isn't just sound streaming out of speakers.
|
|
|
|
Post by BenCMitchell on Nov 3, 2009 23:19:43 GMT
One thing I struggle with is the apparent perception that incorporating image into the marketing of an artist is somehow 'fake'. I, for one, take artists as a whole. Part of the reason I like Hayley so much is not just her beautiful voice, but the fact that she's a really sweet, nice person. I admire many of the things she does and it really is part of the whole package. For me, it isn't just sound streaming out of speakers. Hi Jillian What I, and others as well, meant by the image discussion was that some artists use their image over their singing 'skills' to sell records. Cheryl Cole and other acts in the charts are prime examples of this. Obviously image has an important role, but it shouldn't take priority. Cheers, Ben |
|
|
|
Post by grant on Nov 3, 2009 23:26:18 GMT
Hi Jillian, Martin, Ben and everyone
This thread comes to life from time to time and I read the debates with interest but I wonder, knowing how little spare time Hayley has now, how she can spread herself even further. Bigger venues is one possibility I suppose, but then you loose the 'personal' touch that Hayley seems to enjoy so much.
I think it was Jillian who said that Hayley doesn't go in for making appearances for appearance sake - only going down that road when it really matters and I think that is very true, I also think that her record company understand that and have probably accepted Hayley for what she is and wants to be - true to herself.
Hayley seems very content with both her life and her career at the moment; she is looking ahead at what she feels the future holds - more song writing; maybe some acting.
I'm no expert but I have a feeling she has a very clear picture of where she is going; where she wants to be. Maybe we should just let her get on with it.
Best wishes
Grant
|
|
|
|
Post by martindn on Nov 3, 2009 23:29:33 GMT
Hi Jillian,
Having met Hayley, I think eight times now, I am well aware of what a lovely person she is. But in the end, the thing that is different about her, the thing that makes her stand out from the many other lovely people, is her wonderful musical talent. That is something that is very rare, perhaps unique.
Trying to pour her into a mould that could be occupied by hundreds or thouands of others is to sell her short. Yes, she is a lovely prson, yes she is beautiful, but so are many others. But very few can sing like Hayley, perhaps nobody can, and that is the thing above all that makes her so special and so precious. She also, I think, has a significant songwriting talent.
We are very used to beautiful ladies who use singing s a way to market themselves, where the real product is not really music at all. In Hayley's case the product is music, she simply is not interested in being anything else. Prancing around half naked would be anathema to her, she wouldn't be comfortable with it and it isn't what she is selling.
Yes, like you I admire Hayley for her whole approach to life, for her caring nature, for her willingness to help others. But she is in the end a musician. And a musician's musician. Music is the thing she excels at. The other things are great for sure, but not unique. Her music is unique. If she lets go of that, and persues other things instead, it diminishes her IMO.
Martin
|
|
|
|
Post by BenCMitchell on Nov 3, 2009 23:38:43 GMT
Hi Jillian, Yes, she is a lovely prson, yes she is beautiful, but so are many others. But very few can sing like Hayley, perhaps nobody can, and that is the thing above all that makes her so special and so precious. She also, I think, has a significant songwriting talent. Hi Martin I'm quite puzzled by you saying that no-one else can sing like Hayley. Do you mean in the style that she sings, or her skills as a singer? There are obviously other singers that have amazing talent. I agree with you completely beforehand that Hayley is an amazing musician, but are you saying that she is 'the best singer in the world'?? Cheers, Ben |
|
|
|
Post by martindn on Nov 4, 2009 0:10:06 GMT
Hi Ben,
What I am saying is that Hayley is unique. She does things her own way. That is something very special. She is not interchangeabe with anyone else.
I'm sure there are other artists about whom you could say the same thing. And with such individual artists, you either like them or you don't.
For me, I cannot think of any singer I would rather listen to than Hayley. If that makes her the best in the world, so be it.
Martin
|
|
|
|
Post by Libby on Nov 4, 2009 7:05:56 GMT
I agree with you completely beforehand that Hayley is an amazing musician, but are you saying that she is 'the best singer in the world'?? Well, duh, who else would it be?  i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gifAnd Hayley has been to 2 movie premieres that I know of, one this year, and another last year. I think one's good enough for each year. Just seeing a photo in the paper doesn't necessarily make you go out and buy their album, though, even if they look pretty. Plus, she's on TV for the CBA most years. And now, of course, for the Poppy appeal stuff. That, I'm sure, will show people what a caring person she is (for those who don't know her that well). |
|
|
|
Post by Sandy Wilderness Girl on Nov 4, 2009 8:25:53 GMT
Hey I haven’t really read this thread much hey...but like I think Hayley should try to conquer Oz again hey..  .now that she is slowly getting known here if she was to do a NZ and Australian tour hey but do some appearances on shows like Rove...the footy show...and actually sing a song on these I really believe she would get known here hey.....wow if she could get a guest appearance in Neighbours or Home and away hey...like Andre Rieu did and got like huge publicity hey...  ...and like im not just saying that because I want Hayley to come here......welllll yes i am but don’t I sound convincing hey,,  ,,C’Mon Hayley come to Oz....PLEASE..... i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif. Sandyxxx |
|
Jillian
Global Moderator
Posts: 3,050
|
Post by Jillian on Nov 4, 2009 8:48:13 GMT
Hey I haven’t really read this thread much hey...but like I think Hayley should try to conquer Oz again hey.. .now that she is slowly getting known here if she was to do a NZ and Australian tour hey but do some appearances on shows like Rove...the footy show...and actually sing a song on these I really believe she would get known here hey.....wow if she could get a guest appearance in Neighbours or Home and away hey...like Andre Rieu did and got like huge publicity hey... ...and like im not just saying that because I want Hayley to come here......welllll yes i am but don’t I sound convincing hey,, ,,C’Mon Hayley come to Oz....PLEASE..... i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif. Sandyxxx Ha, ha -- that's not as self-interested as it sounds, Sandy. Apparently Neighbours and Home and Away are popular in the UK too -- so 2 birds would be killed with the one stone! Ah, we can dream, hey? i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif |
|
|
|
Post by BenCMitchell on Nov 4, 2009 8:55:27 GMT
Hey I haven’t really read this thread much hey...but like I think Hayley should try to conquer Oz again hey.. .now that she is slowly getting known here if she was to do a NZ and Australian tour hey but do some appearances on shows like Rove...the footy show...and actually sing a song on these I really believe she would get known here hey.....wow if she could get a guest appearance in Neighbours or Home and away hey...like Andre Rieu did and got like huge publicity hey... ...and like im not just saying that because I want Hayley to come here......welllll yes i am but don’t I sound convincing hey,, ,,C’Mon Hayley come to Oz....PLEASE..... i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif. Sandyxxx Ha, ha -- that's not as self-interested as it sounds, Sandy. Apparently Neighbours and Home and Away are popular in the UK too -- so 2 birds would be killed with the one stone! Ah, we can dream, hey? i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif It would be a brilliant introduction to acting, which Hayley has expressed an interest in trying sometime! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gifCheers, Ben |
|
Jillian
Global Moderator
Posts: 3,050
|
Post by Jillian on Nov 4, 2009 9:07:02 GMT
Hi Ben, They act on Neighbours??? I just thought they stood there being dramatic and frowned a lot! :rollin LOL Don't mind me! But, yes, a good place to start because you can't really go wrong on Neighbours. Though the kind of story line they'd give her is what would have me worried. The basis would be the stereo-typical mysterious girl moves to Ramsay Street, gets job working in local cafe, someone overhears her singing whilst sweeping the floors at the end of a shift and then she goes on to become a star. But of course something dramatic would need to be thrown in as well -- Neighbours seem really keen on babies being randomly kidnapped, so maybe her character would need to have one of those... ANYWAY, as a member of forum support, I ought to hang my head in shame for taking this off on a wild tangent!  So to conclude, a bit of light acting on a TV soap would be a good place to start before Hayley tackles something like playing Christine in Phantom. i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif |
|
|
|
Post by Elliot Kane on Nov 4, 2009 21:14:50 GMT
If there is a better female singer in the world than Hayley, I have yet to hear her. Frankly, I am not sure it would be possible for anyone to be better and still be human. But be that as it may, the audience IS out there. The recent ascendency of young Faryl proves that. Her first album sold amazingly and I have no doubt that her second will do the same. The fact is that most people do not actively seek out new music, and almost never outside of their normal comfort zone. So all the people who would love Hayley if only they ever heard her are out there - they just need finding. Classical Crossover runs into two major problems, as near as I can tell, for all of its artists. Firstly, it is a niche genre and thus poorly reported. Even Katherine Jenkins would likely not get in the papers as much as she does were she not a strikingly beautiful woman. The second problem is that much of entertainment is (And always has been - look at the music halls) about theatre: visual as well as aural entertainment. Classical Crossover artists on the whole sing exceptionally well, but they do not perform. As such, while they will appeal to musical purists, their appeal to a crowd who is looking for spectacle as much as music will be limited. Such artists as do provide spectacle with the music tend to be well received, as evidenced by Escala, Celtic Woman, etc. Give the audience an experience as much as a concert and they will appreciate you more. That's where the 'untalented' Pop people score and score big. Their talent may not really be singing and it's certainly almost never musicianship, but they provide spectacle. Circuses have always been popular |
|
|
|
Post by larryhauck on Nov 4, 2009 21:30:25 GMT
Hi Elliot
I think you have hit the nail on the head with your evaluation of what brings popularity to an entertainer. Audiences want to be razzle dazzled with showmanship and lavish surroundings. Celine Dion in Las Vegas would be a good example of your thesis. Her show was staged beautifully.
Audiences pay dearly to see entertainers and they want the whole package; not just someone singing regardless how great the singer may be.
Larry
|
|
|
|
Post by Elliot Kane on Nov 4, 2009 22:50:13 GMT
I think so, Larry. Historically speaking, the idea that singing or musicianship without drama can stand on its own as entertainment has been the exception, rather than the rule, I think. Opera is basically a play set to music, as are the works of Noel Coward, Ivor Novello, George Gershwin, Oscar Hammerstein, Jerome Kern, Gilbert & Sullivan... You get the idea The period in which radio was king is an anomaly, really. The old music halls of the 1800s were all about show, though they had some terrific tunes as well. While there have likely always been fans of 'pure' music, without the flash, they have likely always been a minority. Even today, the most popular touring musical acts (Whatever one may think of their individual or collective talent) are those who wow their audience with spectacle. |
|
|
|
Post by martindn on Nov 4, 2009 23:00:00 GMT
Well, Larry and Elliott, I'm sure you have a point. Maybe I am just a bit wierd in that I am not impressed by showmanship unless there is something worth showing.
I am impressed by fine musicianship, whether great singing or instrumental virtuosity.When a fine musician shows off what they can do, now that sort of showmanship I enjoy! The other sort is something that the artists are trying to hide behind it seems. What have they got to hide except lack of sufficinet talent?
I also like innovation, which you might think is not an attribute of most classical crossover. But I think that Hayley actually is an innovator, even if she sometimes seems to be a bit afraid of it (Talk to Me, for example, is unlike anything else I've ever heard).
She is innovative in that she will have a go at anything. And unlike most CC artists, she writes some of her own songs. The purity of her voice and precision of her control means she can do things few other singers can. There are some wonderful vocal effects on Winter Magic for example.
I like Hayley's songwriting too. I think we now know what a typical Hayley song is like, full of beautiful images and spirituality, and expressing a hugely positive outlook on life. This is most apparent in her Japanese Songs, so to most people in the west songs like "All with You", a beautifully written song in my opinion, will come as a surprise. They won't know that she has spent some time developing her lyric writing skills, and is now an accomplished lyricist at least.
So I'm wierd. I would rather experience a Hayley performance than any amount of circuses. You get to know and love her stage mannerisms, the "tightrope walk", the "penguin dance" and the others (see, I've even given them names, but not meant to be derogatory, I love them and they add to the enjoyment of the performance).
Martin
|
|
.now that she is slowly getting known here if she was to do a NZ and Australian tour hey but do some appearances on shows like Rove...the footy show...and actually sing a song on these I really believe she would get known here hey.....wow if she could get a guest appearance in Neighbours or Home and away hey...like Andre Rieu did and got like huge publicity hey... 
...and like im not just saying that because I want Hayley to come here......welllll yes i am but don’t I sound convincing hey,, 
