Surely Steve, every girl feels pretty when she's in love and found her man? Especially when she knows her man loves her just as much!
And 'pretty me', is that not the whole girl, spiritual as well as physical?
Peter S.
Peter,
Interesting that you used "girl" and her "man" -- not exactly an equal relationship when put in those terms. Could this be an unconscious acknowledgment that females' obsession with looks is one of the factors retarding equality between the sexes? Ah, but I drift off-topic, sorry.
Therein you raise the perennial problem that is always getting me into trouble. We, as a collective whole, communicate on this web, we don't 'simply post' and the natural development of conversations is that they drift off-topic through the simple art of conversing. Ideas spark other ideas. Threads and compartmentalisation are artificial constructs that seem increasingly to get int the way of the natural development of the friendships that are blossoming on this site.
However, one has to accept that the nature of this site is itself an artificial construct and has to have rules and order to work in a meaningful manner. A Moderator might argue that if you want to 'go off-topic', create a separate thread--but then you have the problem of a natural conversation spreading over several threads and you simply get totally disjointed.
They might say 'go PM', but then others who may be interested in the development but not necessarily wishing to add their six-pennyworth, miss out on that developing rapport in which they may not actively participate but feel the glow of friendship from that discourse--rather as we are all affected by the simple presence of Hayley, not just being enraptured over her singing.
So, have I gone off-topic? No! I have picked up on your
seeming off-topic diversion to develop the context!
In the use of 'girl/man' I am being conversationally casual in my definitions. If you notice across my posts, you will note that I am frequently slipshod in my writing. Going back to my school days I rarely got less than 9 our of 10 for my spelling (or general English for that matter). Spelling and grammar came easily to me, possibly because I was interested in acting at a very early stage and therefore instinctively appreciated the play of words and their constructs.
Having spent my life in printing/publishing and associated side-lines, you would therefore think my command of English very good. It isn't. It is exceedingly idiosyncratic. The reason for this is that I have worked in many different environments, each having their own 'house' style. 'House' style is a list of rules which determine whether they prefer 'ise' to 'ize' in spelling, quotation marks inside or outside punctuation--I reject both alternatives, preferring the rule 'according to intended sense within context', which is the most difficult rule to sub-edit for consistency, etc. This is why I have a very considerable respect for Moderators. Done properly, their job is very difficult and I believe it is done very well on this Board to a good standard which helps make the board what it is--despite the fact I am often floundering in that grey area of 'debatable determination'! So, have I gone off topic? No! I am merely providing the supporting background to my response to your direct question: the 'girl/man' aspect of my response to your viewpoint on the song in
West Side Story 'I feel pretty'.
Yes, I have crossed idioms, representing the problems of 'reviving' a past classic. Traditionalists were originally appalled when 'modern-dress' Shakespeare came on the scene but Shakespeare works well in either vein: historical accuracy or 'modern' interpretation of language. Different aspects can be brought out in each interpretation but neither can bring out all that is within the text.
Carousel is a closer comparative. The 'politically correct' do not like that line 'Is it possible to be hit by someone very hard and not to feel it at all?' Sixty years on we have a different view of male/female relationships but I do not think this undermines the real meaning behind that line which is the expression of deep forgiving, very meaningful, pro-active love that is all-consuming in the value of love itself. That sort of love is not a submissive 'I give up my personality to you, treat me like a dog' sort of love the politically correct interpret it as meaning. I think that line has far greater depth of meaning, if taken in the context of the characters involved and the immediate history to which it refers. Too few people analyse the depth of Shakespeare's text in
The Taming of the Shrew, another play causing the 'politically correct' to get over-excited.
In
West Side Story we actually have Shakespeare's
Romeo and Juliet in modern dress but fifty years on it has itself become period drama! Social attitudes have changed and transplanting fifty-years-old constructs into the 21st century inevitably causes a mix of idiom and metaphor.
In the casual way I used 'girl/man' I was intending to cover a collective whole of meaning--while also being arguably slipshod in my use of language. 'I feel pretty' could just as easily be sung by a mature woman who is finding love for the first time rather late in life; or a widow re-awakening from mourning and the single life, as much as by a young girl, excited at gaining her first kiss. In the context of 'man' there is an idiomatic understanding of 'man' as in any girl's male partner as in 'He's just my man', although I cannot at this stage recall which show that song comes in but I suspect it's a Roger's show but not necessarily a Hammerstein text, possibly Hart? I also accept that in tat context the female is the older 'girl' or a woman
per se.In that context one could (and I believe it has been done) use 'guy'. In
Carousel I think the word used was 'fella'.
So, in short, Steve, what you highlight seems to be:
- an arguably slipshod use of language by me,
- a mix of metaphor and idiom which highlights by chance that there are difficulties in presenting fifty-year old shows 'just as' first presented,
- the degree to which such shows need to be adapted for the new age,
- the mixture of periods, changes of life-style and attitudes and a fluid, ever-changing language can cause confusion, so one should refrain from being overly pedantic.
On that last point, let me close with a quotation from my brother-in-law's late father, one Ivan Beuttler who always wrote under the name of 'Butler' because no one could spell 'Beuttler' when only heard. A repertory actor who moved into theatre management--he managed Watford's Palace Theatre for many years--theatre and film critic to many national papers and the editor of several anthologies on film criticism. One of his perennial sayings was: 'I am aware that English is a living language and therefore must change but just because it is living does not seem to me a sufficient reason to now kill it'!
Regarding your comment on preoccupation with looks--why is that presumed to be the preserve of the female? I have known many vain men. Arguably I am one of them! I have been trying to replace that avatar of mine with something that indicates my natural disposition better, so thank you, Grant, Steve or Stuart, dependent upon whose photo I finally use--a decision based entirely upon my looks, not meaning to criticise by omission the others' photographic quality!
I am one of those upon whom nature bestowed a somewhat hang-dog expression, rather like those Bassett hounds that always look so dolefully miserable. The fact I naturally look dour by default does not necessarily express what I am feeling. So my interest in replacing my avatar--as soon as I can remind myself how to do it, and have the time to do it--with a face that is smiling is simply that I am rarely caught smiling. Is that vanity, or simple acceptance of the realism that I am singularly non-photogenic?
In any case isn't concern for one's looks
- a courtesy to the rest of society which has to look at us,
- an indication of a sense of self-worth,
- an expression of hope that someone might notice us for ourselves and make us feel a part of society?
Peter S.
EDIT: Oh, so that's where it went. I obviously posted without realising or intending I had, hence the second one. Bear with me Mods while I sort my mess out, please PS.
