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Post by Eric on Mar 28, 2007 0:34:49 GMT
If I may but briefly add, Hayley's best asset is her character, her personality, and her refusal to compromise! "Ms. Westenra" may be a difficult name to pronounce, but say it properly enough times via programs, radio, etc., it will definitely stick (even with some of us "hillbillies").  I say, you go Hayley! If dense America doesn't listen (foolish not to), then there are more deserving listeners out there. That is all I'm going to say, I promise!  Regards, Eric |
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Post by socalboy on Mar 28, 2007 0:35:59 GMT
Thank you for weighing in Eric. And thank you for putting aside two hours to read my post. i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif I appreciate what you have to say, as I'm sure will others. It's important to hear from young people who are actually on the ground listening and buying. At the end of the day, all the rest is mere speculation. |
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Post by milewalker on Mar 28, 2007 2:15:25 GMT
One thing that I will say, (and then return the floor (for now  ) is that the more I hear and see of Hayley and Celtic Woman the more intrigued I become. It does tie directly to this thread - because Hayley's presentation has improved in a dozen subtle ways. I dont know if it was being in the group which did it, or the fact that she is simply growing up and the group has provided her with a vehicle to showcase that. Perhaps it is a bit of both. The Celtic Woman venture has forced Hayley into trying all kinds of different things. Trading off with Meav in particular has forced her into trying to find a way to interject some of what Meav might try to do for a specific song - to contemplate a different way to present a song than the way which might have been more natural to her. I havent seen the concert live without Meav - but I have heard several comments to the effect that Hayley has managed to bring some "Meavness" to songs like "At the Ceili" - which is a song I strongly doubt it would have even occurred to her to try a year ago. Perhaps most importantly, it put her into a competive environment with other extraordinary performers. Where I come from, there are few more effective ways to actually get better at what you do. SocialBoy - I am not saying that CW is the ideal venue for her to spread the word - however if you are right about the nature of the American markets, I do think it is a better vehicle than she has been able to come up with to this point. At the very least it is something which overlaps Hayley's natural territory to some degree and is also demonstrably popular with American audiences. I am not sure I would take a dozen or so crazed fans with too much on their hands on You Tube as far as you do, but you have certainly opened up an interesting line of speculation. Eric - I must differ with you. Hayley's best asset is her voice. If she couldnt sing like that, very few people would ever know what a nice person she is. Jon I. |
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Post by socalboy on Mar 28, 2007 17:27:48 GMT
Jon: Thank you for the response. As I told another poster in a PM, I fear that the length of my post has made it a difficult read and is muting the response. Either that, or people are so astonished that this much nonsense could be crammed into one post that they’re speechless. So again, I really do appreciate you taking the time to read it. I hope you are right regarding Hayley’s participation with Celtic Woman. I keep going back and forth as to how this may help her here. I don’t think it can hurt. Celtic Woman is how I discovered Hayley, after all. In any event, I look forward to seeing them for myself on May 5 at the Greek Theatre. As to this comment: I am not sure I would take a dozen or so crazed fans with too much on their hands on You Tube as far as you do, but you have certainly opened up an interesting line of speculation. No doubt there is a leap of faith involved whenever one tries to nail down a target audience. However, I think you may be underestimating the YouTube crowd, and I know you’re understating the sampling number represented in the comments. These may be early adopters, but I hardly see them as collectively “crazed.” My read from their comments is that they are emotionally invested. To some degree these are probably the same people that bought the first MP3 players and abandoned brick and mortar stores the moment they could download their music. These folks represent the way nearly all music will be bought and sold in the very near future. I think the record companies sell them short at their peril. |
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Post by roger on Mar 28, 2007 17:39:11 GMT
There is no problem with the length of your post, socalboy. I found your comments (and those that preceeded and followed it) fascinating. This is developing into a very interesting topic which, for the time being, might be best left to those of you have a good understanding of the US market. I am quite sure the discussion is being followed around the world though and, in time, I'm sure a few of us will dive in.
Roger
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Post by milewalker on Mar 28, 2007 18:39:02 GMT
SocialBoy - I didnt mean crazed in a negative sense really - after all I am crazy about Hayley myself - as I suspect you are as well. I intended that to be tongue in cheek. It was however, the sample size which did and does concern me. However, I was seriously not trying to reject it out of hand either. I too am impressed with the nature of the comments there. You are also, I think, correct in your assessment of the future of music. Speaking of emotional investment - I spent several years being a Hayley fan without it - but within the past few months something about her has changed that. It is in fact the reason I decided to finally join this board. But that is another story for another time. My good friend Simon over at JustCharlotte (I understand he had a minor role here as well ) once said of me that my handle should have been Miletalker - because if you give me an inch I will talk a mile  Your posts are not long winded to me. In fact they are real page turners. Jon |
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Post by Stephany on Mar 28, 2007 19:13:33 GMT
Socalboy, you shouldn't worry about the length of your post because on the contrary, I personally read it with extreme interest.
As Roger said, I do not have a good understanding of the US market so I somehow avoided to enter the discussion. Yet, I can't help following it with fascinated interest since I know we can relate most of what you all said to the French market as well.
The main difference is that Celtic Woman is totally unknown in France so Hayley's decision to join the group won't help her in any way to break our local market. I think Milewalker clearly made a point by saying that the CW venture has forced Hayley into trying all kinds of different things. I'm not sure a song like "Dulaman" would have been included in her repertoire but Hayley now seems extremely thrilled to sing it so it was definitely very intelligent to join the group.
Now, if she wants to break the market as a solo artist, it's clearly another story because if you see the other CW girls, they may be successful as a team; but it's not the case on their own.
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Post by socalboy on Mar 28, 2007 19:15:53 GMT
Speaking of emotional investment - I spent several years being a Hayley fan without it - but within the past few months something about her has changed that. It is in fact the reason I decided to finally join this board. But that is another story for another time. Jon Jon: I hope you will tell that story sooner rather than later. I really want to hear it. I have always loved music, but until Hayley it was only emotional on a superficial level. I don't try to explain her capacity to affect me, because I can't. She is simply the most remarkable artist I have ever encountered. |
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Post by milewalker on Mar 28, 2007 20:37:57 GMT
Hi Stephany,
Thanks for your comments.
I am not saying that Hayley's solo career is directly impacted by CW. There has however been less resistance to her presence there than I thought there would be which does maximize whatever small benefit the exposure is giving her.
I am intrigued by the indirect effects though because I think that the skills she has now developed will translate pretty well into her future solo efforts. As I said above, I am not sure if she learned them from performing with CW or if CW is just the medium from which they became more evident (and the same more mature effect is also present on a lot of Celtic Treasure as well.
As a little exercise, listen to the Scarborough Fair track on Celtic Treasure (which was I think recorded some time back) and the way she performs the song live now. It could be me of course because both artist and fan are subject to growth and change. For me, the emotive power of Hayley singing that song has gone up exponentially.
But the sea change in my impression of Hayley actually happened about half way through the first time I heard Summer Fly. It was partly my astonishment at just how good that song was and partly my astonishment that it was Hayley who was delivering it. I am pleased that the song did get a warm response here - but I have a hunch that it represented a bigger departure of form from Hayley than even many of the people on this board are crediting.
I find - against my better judgement - that I care. I care about Hayley, I care about her career (well I always did that to some extent) and I care about how the change in her is ultamately perceived. There is, I think ,a great deal of truth, SocialBoy, in your assessment of Hayley's possible potential as a romantic balladeer. You said it yourself - there is a vulnerability there now which has massive potential appeal for American audiences, and I dont think it is contrived. You saw it immediately. I probably saw it at about the same time - but I have been around since dirt.
Two years ago, she was a pretty teenager hitting pretty notes......now, at least occasionally, she can turn my heart into quivering goo. Unlike you, I have had this reaction to singers before, though rarely, and not for a long time.
Jon
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Post by Stephany on Mar 28, 2007 21:09:34 GMT
Very interesting thoughts, Jon.
Hayley has grown up and her ability to transfer emotional feelings to her songs is clearly amazing. Her maturity has a lot to do with that and I'm sure it will get even better as she gets older.
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Post by socalboy on Mar 28, 2007 21:27:26 GMT
As a little exercise, listen to the Scarborough Fair track on Celtic Treasure (which was I think recorded some time back) and the way she performs the song live now. It could be me of course because both artist and fan are subject to growth and change. For me, the emotive power of Hayley singing that song has gone up exponentially. Heard the same thing as I noted in my review of Celtic Treasure. But I was not aware that the album track was recorded first. If so, your explanation makes sense But the sea change in my impression of Hayley actually happened about half way through the first time I heard Summer Fly. It was partly my astonishment at just how good that song was and partly my astonishment that it was Hayley who was delivering it. I am pleased that the song did get a warm response here - but I have a hunch that it represented a bigger departure of form from Hayley than even many of the people on this board are crediting. We are swimming together here. Sometimes I compare Hayley to a brilliant, young athlete who, as good as she is, appears still to be holding a little something in reserve. And when she finally unleashes the full breadth of her talent she will rule the world. When you hear SummerFly you begin to think this girl can do anything. I’m convinced we haven’t yet seen everything she can do. It’s a scary thought. |
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Post by roger on Mar 28, 2007 21:31:21 GMT
Hi socalboy,
Just for the record, Hayley's recording of 'Scarborough Fair' first appeared on the UK Special Edition of Odyssey about 18 months ago.
Roger
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Post by socalboy on Mar 28, 2007 21:39:34 GMT
Thanks Roger.
So Jon's observation makes sense, and this information lends support to his theory that the CW tour may be accelerating Hayley's growth as a performer.
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Post by roger on Mar 28, 2007 22:23:16 GMT
If I might interject here, I think everyone is agreed that Hayley's career hasn't taken off in the US as much as it has in the UK, parts of Europe, the Far East, Australia and New Zealand. However, the HWI stats (site and forum) suggest that it is the other way round!
For as long as I have been analysing the stats (2 years or more), a very high proportion of our total visitors have been from the US, second only to those from the UK. My feeling is that this is a far higher proportion than one might expect based on each country's population.
I accept that the number of people visiting our site is a tiny proportion of the population (of any country) as a whole, but is it possible that Hayley is better known in the US than earlier posts in this thread would indicate?
Roger
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Post by toronado on Mar 29, 2007 0:18:02 GMT
I suppose it's possible she's more widely known than I thought. I live in a fairly cultural community that even includes many expatriate and tourist Britons, and I haven't met that many people that have heard of Hayley, but who can say for sure, i'm really only going on my own anecdotal evidence. I'd love to be able to see how many tickets Hayley sells here when/if she does solo shows and compare it with the UK shows.
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I say, you go Hayley! If dense America doesn't listen (foolish not to), then there are more deserving listeners out there. That is all I'm going to say, I promise! 
) is that the more I hear and see of Hayley and Celtic Woman the more intrigued I become. It does tie directly to this thread - because Hayley's presentation has improved in a dozen subtle ways. I dont know if it was being in the group which did it, or the fact that she is simply growing up and the group has provided her with a vehicle to showcase that. Perhaps it is a bit of both.
Your posts are not long winded to me. In fact they are real page turners. 
