Sure-fire ways for Hayley to succeed in the USA

[milewalker]

Hello Dave and all,

Thanks for the interesting discussion.....I think that my impressions of Hayley and the US have been negatively skewed because of a couple of almost intuitive impressions I formed about the way that the introduction of Pure went here - and what followed.

Somewhere Dave (I think it was you) stated that she spent too much time away from the UK in between releases - and I think you have a point there. This being said, most of that time was spent courting the US, and it just didnt work at the time. My fear is that she ended up hurting her UK sales with nothing from the US to offset them.

The reaction of the US to Pure had to be a bitter disappointment - and keeps on hurting her now in my opinion. If memory serves me correctly, 300,000 units were shipped, and dont think more than about 20 or 25 percent ever sold. This is quite likely why it became much harder to find Odyssey and Celtic Treasure in the US. The two chains most likely to have been burnt by Pure were Walmart and Target. Because local managers have the final responsibility for their stores bottom line, it doesnt surprise me at all in retrospect that many of these stores would simply not stock it. She would always be a favorite at Borders and Barnes and Noble of course - and could quite possibly turn up in some odd places as a Mother's day promotion - like gift shops who might only have an inventory of a dozen CD's.

Just one observation. I assume that those of you who have been around for a while know that Hayley made an appearance on QVC (the Cable Value Channel) to try to sell Pure. What I suspect you are not aware of is just how much that appearance reeked of desparation. Let me put it this way. Hayley was on for about 20 minutes - right after they spent an hour hawking cheap jewelry. My heart went out to her then - and I have never been able to shake the impression that moment aroused - that the ship was seriously off course.

Not only that but the acoustics were as bad as they could possibly be for a singer - particularly a singer of her skill, where a nuanced phrase is very important. The result was the most unimpressive performance I have ever seen her give. I should know better than to write these things while I am supposed to be working


Dave - I understand that a large fall in the UK sales from the level of Pure was to be expected. However, I dont think that anyone anticipated that it would be of that magnitude. The normal shortfall might be as much as one-third. The marketing was certainly intense for Pure, but it also saturated the market to the extent that it made her a household name. I have a hard time accepting a drop of more than 50 percent for that reason. Yes - they are still at a level where she might be able to survive - But a marketing campaign like that was clearly designed to make her a mega star - remember when they were comparing her to Celine Dion? In my opinion it really didnt work that well in the UK either. The market is softer there - the fact that she cant move a quarter million records per UK release given her market placement and her talent is a major problem in my opinion as well.

Why are they not simply cycling 30 second ads thorough the peak hours of CNN and the Weather Channel (I heard that she did show up on the WC once - but I am an avid watcher and I havent seen her. That is her demographic - and there are generally several million people watching at a time. I am guessing that the short answer is that they cant afford it.

I need to repeat that I am not trying to focus on the UK vs US issue. If she was selling 250,000 a release in the UK I wouldnt be here boring you about this. I would be boring you with something completely different

Jon - who wishes to apologize for being so critical at times.

[roger]

Hi socalboy,

Thank you for furnishing us with so much food for thought. This could generate a lot of interest, especially following your second instalment.

socalboy said:

The classical cross-over market in the U.S. is dominated by a lounge act (ll Divo) and an American (Josh Groban).

I don't doubt that is true but, without wishing to appear sexist, surely their fans are predominantly female? Doesn't that mean there is room in the market for Hayley? Il Divo and Josh Groban are surely competing with one another but how many other female crossover singers would currently be in direct competition to Hayley in the US market?

socalboy said:

And that’s why our stores don’t know where to put Hayley, Il Divo or even Josh Groban. Go to three stores and you’ll see them in three different sections

I promise you that is very much how it is in England.

socalboy said:

These people are not yearning for an essentially untrained teenage ingénue from New Zealand to take their collective breath away.

Perhaps not, but that is largely because they don't know that such a person exists. (?)


I await your further views with interest.

Roger

[socalboy]

Jon:

Very interesting thoughts. I agree with everything you said except this:

milewalker said:

Why are they not simply cycling 30 second ads thorough the peak hours of CNN and the Weather Channel (I heard that she did show up on the WC once - but I am an avid watcher and I havent seen her. That is her demographic - and there are generally several million people watching at a time. I am guessing that the short answer is that they cant afford it.

I don't believe that's her demo in the States. Or at least I don't believe it should be her target demo. I think focusing on this group in the U.S. has already failed her and will continue to do so. More on that in my next post.

I agree with you completely on the home shopping network issue.

[toronado]

roger said:

I don't doubt that is true but, without wishing to appear sexist, surely their fans are predominantly female? Doesn't that mean there is room in the market for Hayley? Il Divo and Josh Groban are surely competing with one another but how many other female crossover singers would currently be in direct competition to Hayley in the US market?

I think the classical/classicalx demo in the states is almost entirely female regardless the sex of the artist. That might be why the good looking gentlemen like Il Divo, and Russel Watson seem to have more success here than Hayley.

Another thing in the column for Il Divo is simple, Simon Cowell. Simon has considerable power in the musical market here. My mother knows absolutely nothing about classical music of any kind, but she knows Il Divo because of Simon Cowell.

Edit: Out of curiosity, how many people turn up when Hayley does a solo show in the UK? What size venues does she usually appear in?

[socalboy]

roger said:

Hi socalboy,

Thank you for furnishing us with so much food for thought. This could generate a lot of interest, especially following your second instalment.

socalboy said:

The classical cross-over market in the U.S. is dominated by a lounge act (ll Divo) and an American (Josh Groban).

I don't doubt that is true but, without wishing to appear sexist, surely their fans are predominantly female? Doesn't that mean there is room in the market for Hayley? Il Divo and Josh Groban are surely competing with one another but how many other female crossover singers would currently be in direct competition to Hayley in the US market?



I promise you that is very much how it is in England.

socalboy said:

These people are not yearning for an essentially untrained teenage ingénue from New Zealand to take their collective breath away.

Perhaps not, but that is largely because they don't know that such a person exists. (?)


I await your further views with interest.

Roger

Hi Roger:

Let me respond briefly in order. Again, I think some of what I have to say in my part II post will also be relevant to your comments.

1. My thoughts on who comprises Hayley's (potential) audience in the States may differ from yours. I agree that Groban and Il Divo's sales are female driven. Hayley's may be too, but for different reasons. In fact, I believe females drive large segments of the record buying business here. Rap and heavy metal are two exceptions. You are of course right about the lack of female cross-over artists here. I think it's for a reason. It's just not a growth market and female singers are being directed into adult contemporary or other categories where a critical mass of buyers still exists.

2. I guess record store mismanagement has gone global.

3. I hope my statement about Hayley as an untrained ingénue doesn't come across too harshly. This is certainly not my view, but I have more than enough experience with opera buffs and symphony folks to know how many of them think. And I just don't believe they want to let Hayley (or anyone else who isn't stout and classically-trained from birth) into their club, no matter how good she is. Sad, I know.

[roger]

Hi toronado and socalboy,

Thank you very much for your recent additions to this thread. Already, I think you have given many of us a clearer understanding of the challenges that lie ahead if Hayley is to break into the US market.

Roger

[milewalker]

socalboy said:

Jon:

Very interesting thoughts. I agree with everything you said except this:

milewalker said:

Why are they not simply cycling 30 second ads thorough the peak hours of CNN and the Weather Channel (I heard that she did show up on the WC once - but I am an avid watcher and I havent seen her. That is her demographic - and there are generally several million people watching at a time. I am guessing that the short answer is that they cant afford it.

I don't believe that's her demo in the States. Or at least I don't believe it should be her target demo. I think focusing on this group in the U.S. has already failed her and will continue to do so. More on that in my next post.

I agree with you completely on the home shopping network issue.

SocialBoy - actually we are likely in more agreement on that issue than you may think. However, when I made that comment I was thinking in terms of what could be done to help Hayley now - in her current presentation. You are correct that the Charlotte Church phenomenon simply isnt going to happen again. This being said, hardly anyone I know (I live in St Louis) even knows she exists - which means that such muted effect as it might have doesnt happen. You cant sell a CD under any circumstances to anyone if they dont know you are there.

Jon

[stevemacdonald]

socalboy said:

... In fact, success here is often meteoric, catapulted by a single event or strategic timing. That’s where marketing can be critical. ...

Exactly, socal.

This feels like an appropriate time to reiterate that Hayley needs an appearance on one of the BIG THREE star-making shows if she's to break big. Until she's been seen on Oprah, Leno or Letterman she won't take off. It's as simple as that.

Back in '04 she was on Good Morning America, but a spectacular lapse in judgement kept her GMA impact to a minimum: Instead of singing her exotic Pokarekare Ana which would have wowed anyone listening she went with the most done-to-death workhorse imaginable, Amazing Grace. Yes, it was lovely and it did drive sales a bit, but the one song that would have truly set her apart was, incredibly, not done. (It's important to remember that Charlotte Church had sung Amazing Grace many times on American TV, most famously for the President at the Ford's Theatre, and on the Larry King Show immediately after 9-11.)

I maintain that a sure-fire way for Hayley to succeed in the USA is to sing the right song on the right show. This hasn't happened yet and until it does, we are all just looking down the rabbit hole and nothing will make complete sense.

[milewalker]

Steve,

Just a quibble. While appearing on a show like what you call the "big three" is often the vehicle which brings an artist to the masses, there is usually something of note happening at the time which is the reason the artist is on such a show in the first place. There is no doubt that such an appearance would help Hayley, but this does not answer the question of what she must do to get there.

Jon

[stevemacdonald]

Jon, to get on Oprah's radar Hayley would have to be recommended by someone Oprah knows. I'm sure she and Hayley have a few people in common by now.

To get booked on the other shows usually requires more pre-existing momentum, such as an album on its way to the top. However, that's not a bad thing for Hayley since she is a force to be reckoned within the classical/crossover world with millions of albums already sold. Both Leno and Letterman have featured successful classical performers who don't necessarily have a hot Billboard Top 200 presence or a lot of media hype. The fact that she's sung for the Queen and the Prez, and is the fastest-selling classical singer in the UK is credentials enough, I would think.

If I were managing Hayley stateside I'd work on getting her Summer Fly out to all the radio stations by summer and I'd have a slick video of same playing on YouTube to help start the buzz.

[socalboy]

stevemacdonald said:

If I were managing Hayley stateside I'd work on getting her Summer Fly out to all the radio stations by summer and I'd have a slick video of same playing on YouTube to help start the buzz.

Count me on board with that one.

[milewalker]

stevemacdonald said:

Jon, to get on Oprah's radar Hayley would have to be recommended by someone Oprah knows. I'm sure she and Hayley have a few people in common by now.

To get booked on the other shows usually requires more pre-existing momentum, such as an album on its way to the top. However, that's not a bad thing for Hayley since she is a force to be reckoned within the classical/crossover world with millions of albums already sold. Both Leno and Letterman have featured successful classical performers who don't necessarily have a hot Billboard Top 200 presence or a lot of media hype. The fact that she's sung for the Queen and the Prez, and is the fastest-selling classical singer in the UK is credentials enough, I would think.

If I were managing Hayley stateside I'd work on getting her Summer Fly out to all the radio stations by summer and I'd have a slick video of same playing on YouTube to help start the buzz.

Once again Steve, I agree with this as far as it goes. The only problem is that it begs yet another question. Why didnt such appearances occur in 2004 when she was supposed to be here to do exactly that sort of thing? While everything you say is still true, all of this was truer then than it is now. In fact, I am pretty sure we were actually told at one point that an appearance on Letterman was pending - but it never happened.

Jon

[stevemacdonald]

milewalker said:

stevemacdonald said:

J... In fact, I am pretty sure we were actually told at one point that an appearance on Letterman was pending - but it never happened.

If only. And there was also "The O.C." -- a popular show that would have significantly lifted her visibility. Who knows what became of those? If Letterman was really offered to her I have no doubt she would have jumped at the chance. Not to do so would have been the biggest mistake of her (or anyone's) career.

[socalboy]

PART II: The Dark Waltz Phenomenon and Beyond


Part I was easy. Anyone can be a critic. Now I have to put myself on the line. So have at it.

Here are five somewhat related thoughts. They all revolve around the notion that to succeed with American record buyers, Hayley needs something that identifies and distinguishes her in the U.S. marketplace. She needs a “handle.” I think she already has one.

1. YouTube and Dark Waltz

Say what you will about YouTube, it is as important for what it tells us as for what it actually is. And what it tells us is that Hayley Westenra is already a hit in America, except most Americans don’t know it yet. If you haven’t already, do yourself a favor and watch the Phantom of the Opera video set to Hayley’s Dark Waltz, produced by an amateur moviemaker. Then read the comments. Start at the beginning. You can only reach one conclusion: Everyone wants to know who that singer is. This is a key fact. Hayley has already made a fundamental emotional connection.

A quick detour into current musical research, because it is relevant. A number of research organizations have recently set their sights on measuring the emotional connection between artists and listeners, and how that connection relates to sales. What they have found is that women are driving huge increases in digital music sales. And unlike men, one of the things women want to know is something about an artist’s “core values.” They don’t consciously seek this information, they are intuitive about it. They want a comfort level. They want a reason to like what they like. That is how they form an emotional connection. With the exception of rap, and to a lesser degree heavy metal, record labels are beginning to understand that for any new artist it is essential that they connect with females. This is changing the industry.

The good news for Hayley is that through Dark Waltz she has already demonstrated her ability to connect with the consciousness of American women (and some blokes too). The reaction to Dark Waltz is not typical of YouTube videos in general. And the research I’ve seen about YouTube indicates that currently most viewers, and especially those who leave comments, are Americans and Canadians.

So why did it take some guy in his basement to make this video? Imagine if Universal had produced and released this. We would have the additional advantage of a dazzling Hayley singing on camera. The video would still be on YouTube, but only after airing in its initial broadcast window. And it would be a sensation. Women would talk about it. “Have you seen it?” “I can’t believe her voice.” “She is so pretty.” I know this to be true because my two teenage sons have a helpful circle of male and female friends, and I’ve been doing my own research .

Hayley’s Dark Waltz hits a nerve, and it is precisely the nerve that record labels covet. Dark Waltz connects emotionally with young girls and women. In the States, this is Hayley’s core audience. At least initially. This is the audience that will drive record sales. Of course there will be males and seniors, but most of them will follow.

Hayley’s Dark Waltz connects with this target audience because:

1. Dark Waltz (and Phantom) is about drama and raw emotion – this is where many girls and young women live. This is not meant to be sexist. Men inhabit these same places but are reluctant to let it show. They will follow.

2. Hayley sings to their souls – to their diaries, their loves lost and found, their emotional vulnerability. She sings the score to their romantic lives. That’s why they want to know the name behind that enchanting, haunting voice. They want to know who she is. It’s the Dark Waltz Phenomenon. And it’s been out there for months.

3. Hayley is suited perfectly to this kind of music. There is an unmistakable plaintive quality to her voice and she uses it to great affect at times, as she does on several tracks in Treasure. She induces nostalgia and melancholy like nobody’s business. No one is better at this.

Hayley can be the romantic voice of a generation. She’s a balladeer, a modern torch singer. She’s every girl’s muse. Ironic, I know, for someone who says she’s never had a boyfriend. But all of us on this forum know the potency of that voice. When it strikes a romantic chord it can be devastating, not least of all for women. And, of course, men are susceptible too. If I were to ever hear Hayley sing Dark Waltz live I have no doubt I would be an emotional wreck. This tough guy will admit it.

It must be said that as the specific vehicle to re-launch Hayley in the U.S., the Dark Waltz ship may well have sailed. But at the very least it should tell the executives at Universal that spending some money to promote Hayley is not a big gamble. They should be able to read the new media tea leaves and understand the depth of response to Hayley’s voice.

Still, we have to look forward. And forward may mean:

2. Genre Adjustment

Hayley doesn’t need to change, but her musical focus does. Nothing radical here - simply rethinking the pecking order of musical genres for which she’s already shown an affinity. It doesn’t mean changing her name to Dr. Hay, or The Artist Formerly Known as HW. But she’s not going to make it in the States on the back of Danny Boy and Ave Maria, as much as we may love her renditions.

I believe Hayley has at least two options, and she may be able to exploit both of them. The first, as discussed above, is as romantic balladeer. In addition to Dark Waltz, a song list might include Who Painted the Moon Black, and perhaps Across the Universe of Time from Pure. From Odyssey, Never Saw Blue is absolutely perfect. From Treasure I would add The Water is Wide. There are certainly more. Everyone has their favorites. It’s amazing how many hits Hayley might have had here if hit-making had been selected as a marketing tool.

There is also a clear opportunity for Hayley as a popular/country cross-over artist. She has already proven herself masterful at this. On her Live From New Zealand DVD she performs Down to the River with what is akin to a Maori barbershop quartet. The sound is sensational. I think it’s one of Roger’s favorites. Mine too. The song has gospel elements, but it demonstrates how well Hayley adapts to a familiar American format.

SummerFly has perhaps even broader appeal. Though its an Irish folk song, it’s edgy country sound will go down easily with young Americans. It was good to read in Alena’s review that Hayley’s performance of SummerFly at the Ulysses in New York was a crowd pleaser. The audience loved this song. Many of us are not surprised.


3. Get the Girl an Anthem

A related but vital issue of its own. After all is said and done, hit development is still the most reliable and efficient method for creating album demand. Josh Groban was certainly on the radar already, but when he released You Raise Me Up, the song did just that for his career. It became his anthem. He is now so identified with it that most of his fans think he wrote it.

Hayley needs an anthem of her own. And I’m not talking about Pokarekare Ana. I’m invoking the one anthem per region rule. We need a Hayley anthem North American style. There are songwriters out there who could be enlisted. But that’s expensive and risky. Hayley’s been so good with her song selection that I’m betting she could find something relatively undiscovered. As an example, My Heart Belongs to You from the U.S. version of Odyssey has a kind of Celine Dion gushiness. And Hayley really belts it out. This is one of the few times where Hayley seems to abandon her natural reserve to unleash the shackles and truly let loose. That’s what an anthem is all about. Let the search begin.


4. People Magazine’s 50 Most Beautiful People

This may seem a trifle, but believe me it’s not. This is a widely circulated special issue of People Magazine, and though it’s really quite innocent, it leaves a mark. And no bikinis required. Hayley belongs on this list because she is so obviously beautiful, inside and out. Her Kiwiness helps her here because People does try to make this international. Also, the fact that she’s less known could be a plus, as the magazine likes to showcase several stars on the rise along with the usual suspects. The publicists at Universal should be working feverishly for this one. It can be done and it could help put Hayley on the map. She may be a Kiwi, but Hayley looks the way American girls want to look (and of course like American guys want their girls to look). Again, I know this from sampling my own kids and their friends. They tell me she is “hot” without being threatening. She is pretty and thin. Get her in this issue.


5. Stream Her and (File)Share Her

We can rail all we want against file swapping and free music sharing, but I say if you can’t beat em, join em. Select a track from Hayley’s next album and promote it on file-sharing sites including YouTube. Each free download could contain a 10-second promotion - an ad if you will - that links or directs viewers to one of Hayley’s sites or to her MySpace page, where they can find additional samples of Hayley tracks.

The campaign should be multimedia, with complementary spots on radio and billboards driving traffic to the sites. But first and foremost, embrace the new media, and create an innovative peer-to-peer promotion. Let Hayley be out there where her audience lives. Let them hear the voice and see the face of music’s future. Young people love stuff for free, but they won’t hesitate to seek out more and pay for it when they like it. This is Hayley’s audience. They are young, enthusiastic, and ever on the prowl for something new and good. Let’s give it to them.

***

So, in sum, what do we have? We have Hayley the romantic balladeer expanding and refocusing her musical repertoire as she connects with her core female audience. We’ve given her a signature song, put her beautiful face in a national publication, and turned to the new media to complete the connection.

Is some of this distasteful and at odds with what we know and love about Hayley? I, for one, don’t believe so - it’s not as if she’d be selling her soul. But perhaps the compromises are a bit too much to ask. If that’s the case, then so be it. Hayley will be no less wonderful if she maintains her current level of popularity here. She may be a little less rich and a little less famous, but fame is fleeting and wealth ultimately unsatisfying.

The more compelling reason for Hayley to make it here is because we need her. This nation needs to hear her music. And I mean “need” in the most literal sense. I know personally the benefits of Hayley’s voice, and I truly believe that this huge country could use a rather strong dose of Hayley right about now. All of this gloom needs an antidote. Hayley would be good for us. And that, more than anything, is why she should try.

[Eric]

Hey guys,

I'm fairly new here, fairly young, and fairly uneducated in creating success in the music industry; however, if I could put my two cents in (US Currency, btw), I will move on and listen and learn.

As an American, I see how we have developed several fad fascinations with "pop" stars and how we like music that we don't have to re-train our ears to listen to....you know, that hip-hop swing with a get up and dance style. Ms. Hayley's voice is sensational! I have only recently learned of her existence (via, of course, Myspace and YouTube). And that resulted from doing my own searches to find classical artists.

Hayley is not yet an American household name but very much could be!! I see no reason why she shouldn't be in a very short amount of time! (Her songs do require the American-music-trained ear a little bit of time to adjust. But once it does, one can really appreciate the clarity and tonal quality of her voice). But I do believe there is a market here for her. Celtic Woman is, in my humble opinion, a wonderful thing for her career at the moment. Somebody's right on track with her career plans!

As far as her song selections for her newest CD, I enjoy listening to them all. My favorites right now include the traditional American songs (at least popular in America), Danny Boy and Shenandoah. Her wide variety of songs may help her establish some sort of unique niche in America...I don't know. Someone with more experience can answer that one. But I've found more of a connection with those songs, although they all have grown on me tremendously in the week since I bought the CD.

To comment on socalboy's remarks, I do love the songs "Across the Universe of Time" and "The Water is Wide." I don't know if it's because they are a different style or what. She has an awesome voice! And the thing that hooked me was her ability to reach out and grab those notes and "emotionally connect" with the song.

As far as People's magazine goes, I'd vote for her. She does seem to possess a lovely personality to complement her beauty and voice. She has everything in the world going for her right now including a wonderful support staff (HWI and others). My guess is, she has remained "single" of her own wise choosing.

Well, I don't know if I helped clear things up on the American side or not (just one simple country boy here talking up a storm). But I do hope she continues her successful career with more stops in America (with or without Celtic Woman). In my opinion, she's already on a collision course with success! (And this, coming from a pessimist). =)

Best wishes, Hayley
And regards to HWI and "support",

Eric D.
(Sorry for the lengthy reply)