Sure-fire ways for Hayley to succeed in the USA

[milewalker]

Roger,

If I looked at the numbers at Amazon.com for Hayley's performance I might easily reach the same conclusion. However, the reason the Amazon numbers are out of line is that the options to purchase her records from America are much more limited, which in turn raises the percentage of her sales from that one site - right along with the general activity and commentary. Your site is a news dispenser, but I suspect that it works much the same way in principle. There are hundreds of news articles about her from elsewhere in the world for every one that we would ever see.

So, is it possible? I suppose it is. But I doubt it. Until I see evidence to the contrary I must assume that the reason she doesnt tour solo here is because there arent enough fans to support it..

Jon

[mariannek]

socalboy said:

milewalker said:

As a little exercise, listen to the Scarborough Fair track on Celtic Treasure (which was I think recorded some time back) and the way she performs the song live now. It could be me of course because both artist and fan are subject to growth and change. For me, the emotive power of Hayley singing that song has gone up exponentially.

Heard the same thing as I noted in my review of Celtic Treasure. But I was not aware that the album track was recorded first. If so, your explanation makes sense

milewalker said:

But the sea change in my impression of Hayley actually happened about half way through the first time I heard Summer Fly. It was partly my astonishment at just how good that song was and partly my astonishment that it was Hayley who was delivering it. I am pleased that the song did get a warm response here - but I have a hunch that it represented a bigger departure of form from Hayley than even many of the people on this board are crediting.

We are swimming together here. Sometimes I compare Hayley to a brilliant, young athlete who, as good as she is, appears still to be holding a little something in reserve. And when she finally unleashes the full breadth of her talent she will rule the world. When you hear SummerFly you begin to think this girl can do anything. I’m convinced we haven’t yet seen everything she can do. It’s a scary thought.

Hi,
For what it's worth coming from me...my prediction quite some time has been that Hayley will be named the * Voice of the Century * !!!
( and I am not alone here !!)
I keep telling myself she is only 19 going 20 and she has achieved such great acclaim already !!!
Just reading this forum day by day we are made aware of her impact as a singer and performer around the world !!!
I think she is still only being discovered, and as more and more people come across her amazing voice and person they are blown away every time...right ??
By the time she reaches 25 she will have been a STAR for 10 years and will take peoples breath away into a long future career !!!
Well, I better leave it here....
Love, Marianne

[Eric]

Hey guys,

I hesitate (temporarily anyway) to add my comments to this thread again. But, I'll post briefly:

1. No one in my area knows of Hayley Westenra. (I know...I'm slacking! Gotta shout it from the rooftops! ) =) Few have even heard of Celtic Woman. The younger folks here do not regard PBS very highly. I remember seeing somewhere in a previous post that PBS is seen as "stodgy." I would say this is an accurate view of the American perception of PBS. To become popular, she will definitely need other avenues.

2. It doesn't seem like there is an awful lot of excitement among her recording company (Universal, maybe?) about her voice. Are they doing all they can to promote her throughout the US? - I apologize in advance if this seems accusatory. It just seems like they are more reactive than proactive. If she succeeds, we will further promote her.... I could be wrong, though.

3. Americans are slow to accept change. Keep at it, Hayley. Keep your personality just the way it is. Do not change to make it popular in America (too many stars have already done that). If for the greater good, we all need someone who will NOT do that! But your personality and voice will win the hearts and ears of many Americans sooner or later! Stay persistent. You will undoubtedly break into the CD racks of many a young man, as well. (Prolly in the back to hide from visiting friends and escape jesting). i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif Just kidding, by the way. However, I am confident that others will fall in love with you and your voice as Mr. Untouchable has himself.

4. I would recommend that Hayley come back to the States with as much marketing publicity that her staff and ever growing support group can muster. This time, she needs to do solo concerts to set herself apart from another member of the CW group. Have her talk to her fans. Both parties would love and benefit from this. Heavily market the fact that "International Artist - Hayley Westenra is visiting America!" Get your seats today! (If this happens, I want to be front row, center stage!!!). Anyway, boys and girls...I sincerely believe that the stage is set for Hayley to take over America (at least sections of it). And she is currently doing everything the way she should.

Persistence and maybe a little coaxing of both Universal and Stateside support groups to help her out will go a long way!!

I apologize for a lengthy response from an inexperienced fan...I will keep my posts short in the future. I hope.


Once again, Best Wishes, Hayley
And Staff, (What a support group, HWI!!) Thrilled to be a member of the forum that promotes Hayley's best interests!!

-Eric (previously known as "Mr. Untouchable")

[milewalker]

Just a quick comment regarding your point number 2 Eric....

The way you stated that is essentially the way it is, and unfortunately the way it is likely to stay. Hayley was given a marketing budget - and she still has two more albums to do. These things can be, and often are adjusted to fit changing circumstances, but the bottom line is that Universal is not really in it to promote Hayley, except as an avenue to make more money for Universal. It is the way that recording contracts are set up. It has even happened before that artists end their contracts owing the record company money. For this reason I find the idea of a big conventional marketing blitz in the US to be rather unlikely. As always, I could be wrong.

Jon

[Richard]

Hello everybody!

I hope somebody from Decca is reading this, after all the effort our members are putting into it. Personally I know very little about marketing in the USA, so I was finding this thread hard going. However, reading through it again I'm becoming more interested, so I've edited this post considerably.

I fully agree that Hayley should stay as she is, and not change her style or personality drastically for the sake of greater fame. I'm sure she doesn't want to change either!

Best Wishes,

Richard

[roger]

milewalker said:

It has even happened before that artists end their contracts owing the record company money.

Jon

Exactly, Jon.

All promotion has to be paid for ultimately by Hayley. Her record company therefore have to find a balance between promoting her enough to do the job, but not so much that it fails to pay for itself in the form of additional sales of concert tickets, CDs, etc. That balance, even for Universal-Decca, must be extremely difficult to determine constantly.

Roger

[milewalker]

Hi Richard and Roger -

Roger - to reinterate a point I tried to make above (sorry for the repitition, but I am always afraid that little nuances get lost when a thread is this complex) - I am personally not convinced that her current level of success is enough to secure her future. I am focusing on the US simply because i think it is the only growth market still available to her I could be wrong at any point in this argument however.

Richard - I have one problem with being too resistant to change. Fan bases are subject to attrition over time no matter what the artist does.
Show me a group that has been around 40 years, and I will show you a group which is still functioning with a much smaller base than they once had. The critical factor for longevity in my opinion is therefore based on the peak size of the fan base. If I once had 10,000,000 fans and have declined 90 percent over the years, I still have 1 million. In my opinion, the more fans Hayley accrues in the next two years, the greater the chance she will still be around in 20.

I would consider myself a moderate on the subject of change. I am not saying that Hayley should change anymore than the minimum she needs to
fulfill whatever her definition of success is. I think the decision of how much change is good (if any) should be made by her. I also think she is wise enough to make a reasonable decision if and when the time comes.

Jon

[roger]

Hi Jon,

Basically, you are advocating change in a small and gradual way. I wouldn't disagree with that, but I wouldn't call it "change". I would call that adapting, experimenting, branching out a little. But Hayley has always done that ('Wuthering Heights' and 'Summer Fly' to name but two obvious examples). Meanwhile, she is known and loved for singing a mixture of classical, Celtic, songs from the shows, and a little pop. That sounds pretty eclectic to me and I doubt if there is much more she could do to branch out short of losing her current identity.

Were she to experiment more, there is a danger that many of her existing fan base would begin to ask another question: When will she make her mind up about what she wants to sing?

I believe she has the balance exactly right. That is, it is right for her, but that may only be true in the UK, NZ and a few other countries. It may not be right for the US. Hopefully she will not resort to having a vastly different repertoire for the two sides of the Atlantic.

Roger

[socalboy]

milewalker said:

Just a quick comment regarding your point number 2 Eric....

The way you stated that is essentially the way it is, and unfortunately the way it is likely to stay. Hayley was given a marketing budget - and she still has two more albums to do. These things can be, and often are adjusted to fit changing circumstances, but the bottom line is that Universal is not really in it to promote Hayley, except as an avenue to make more money for Universal. It is the way that recording contracts are set up. It has even happened before that artists end their contracts owing the record company money. For this reason I find the idea of a big conventional marketing blitz in the US to be rather unlikely. As always, I could be wrong.

Jon

This is always the fortune-telling act that all marketers face: How much do we spend before it’s good money chasing bad? Or in this case, good money chasing the wrong customers.

As you noted, Hayley’s got two more albums to release under this contract. I am reminded of Einstein’s definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. Until Hayley’s connection with her core American audience is clearly identified, it’s all crazy by Einstein’s reckoning. There’s a two-album window in front of us. Will anything change?

I am in no way suggesting that the plan I outlined is the only way to go. There must be dozens of great ideas out there. But what I did was concentrate on a cost efficient strategy: Repositioning, along with free publicity and fairly inexpensive promotion. No major media buys and no elaborate advertising campaigns. Even the peer-to-peer promotion could be done without an ancillary advertising effort. The only substantial cost would be music video production. I have no idea whether that’s in the budget.

I’m convinced something has to change. But again, only if it’s important enough to Hayley. I would pay to hear her whistle. But I’m already on board.

Roger:

I’m not sure what to make of the statistics you shared with us regarding the number of U.S. visitors to this site. I would love to believe that it represents a silent underground of fans who will one day surprise us. However, like my fellow yanks, real world reconnaissance tells me otherwise.

Introducing Hayley to new listeners here is easy because so many simply have never heard of her. One explanation may be what I hinted at in an earlier post. The depth of response to Hayley is not typical. When people finally do discover her they want to know more. And as Jon pointed out, information about her from mainstream American media is virtually non-existent. For Hayley seekers, this site is the Mother Lode.

[roger]

socalboy said:

For Hayley seekers, this site is the Mother Lode.

Thank you, but anyone who is not aware of Hayley's existance won't go looking for HWI. Hopefully, some will discover it (and therefore her) by accident whilst browsing elsewhere but that is not likely to happen in large numbers.

Roger

[milewalker]

Roger,

Change is change I think the difference you are talking about might be better stated as evolution rather then revolution. If you dont mind evolutionary changes I dont think there is likely to be a problem.

What is a "current identity" though? At 51, I am a lot like the person I was when I was 19, but also a lot different. I am pretty sure that the perception of personality by others has changed somewhat because my life experiences have changed.

I will tell you a little story about myself. I was something of a professional student for a while. I got an early start because I was considered "gifted" (which means that I was better at taking tests than other people) - so I was allowed to take college courses during my second year of American high school. I was also able to test out of a number of courses once I attended college. I ended up with 4 degrees at age 22 - and then my father had a stroke, and I suddenly needed a functioning income because I had to support my mother and sister for a few years. Because fields like History and Psychology were my passion but not really immediately lucrative, I anaylized my school records, and realized I could cobble togther another degree in Accounting in just one more semester - which did provide a reasonable starting salary. I have done that ever since. - though the other studies have certainly helped out from time to time.

See the point?

Jon

[socalboy]

roger said:

socalboy said:

For Hayley seekers, this site is the Mother Lode.

Thank you, but anyone who is not aware of Hayley's existance won't go looking for HWI. Hopefully, some will discover it (and therefore her) by accident whilst browsing elsewhere but that is not likely to happen in large numbers.


Roger

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm saying that Americans who discover Hayley and her music prior to knowing about HWI will seek out more information about her, and with a simple Google search they will find HWI and all it has to offer.

[Eric]

Case in point!!

[stevemacdonald]

One clever way around the dilemma of Hayley changing her music is to create two entirely different regional albums each time out. Let her continue to give the Brits the stylings they prefer and let the Americans discover her edgier, poppier, perhaps more countrified and commercial sound. She clearly has the range within her for this but is hemmed-in by expectation. I know she would have far more latitude for experimentation in her future US-region releases because there's not that much to lose and everything to gain.

My hope is that an uber-producer like David Foster (under whose wing Josh and Celine's careers soared) will have a vehicle for Hayley that totally wows the world, perhaps a showstopper that truly gives her a chance to show what she can do. In my opinion she hasn't come close to finding that special song yet, but when she does, look out!

[socalboy]

On this whole issue of “change,” it’s important to clarify something. The change I’m talking about is not internal – it has nothing to do with who Hayley is. Hayley can’t change her essential nature. It’s impossible, and thank God for that.

In fact, one of the things I said earlier was, “Hayley doesn’t need to change, but her musical focus does.”

All of the songs I listed as examples of a potential repositioning in the U.S. were songs Hayley has already selected and recorded. She’s already shown an affection for this kind of music. It’s not so much a change in repertoire, it’s a reshuffling. I’m simply saying dim the spotlight in one area and turn it up in another.

This is an elemental part of marketing: You identify those attributes most likely to appeal to your audience, and you highlight and communicate them. The sticking point, it seems, is that the American audience is different from the rest of the world. This is not an easy country for someone of Hayley’s temperament. It’s the toughest place in the world to be heard above the noise.

Recall what Eric said: He loves Hayley but his young peers have no use whatsoever for PBS. And without PBS, Hayley’s visibility in the States would be down to nil. You can start to see the problem.

Unlike many of the posters here, I haven’t even met Hayley, and yet I care about her more than I fully understand. I’ve succumbed along with Jon and Eric and Steve, and I’m still betting that she can charm a nation. The main reason for my participation in this thread is because it really ticks me off that more Americans don’t know about her. What a loss. Shouldn’t we try to do something about it?