Dame Kiri puts Hayley out in the cold - NZ Herald

[milewalker]

stevemacdonald said:

gerrit said:

... I have quoted Roger's message because I have an observation to make about the very same paragraph he has quoted from Steve's message.

I think that the observation that Kiri's distaste for popera is shared by ALL opera singers is a generalisation and as such not true. ...

Well, at least all the ones that I know.

I think the best-known opera stars are more publicly tolerant of popera, but who knows what they really think? I've inferred from a few revealing moments that they, indeed, have little, if any, respect for popera as a genre all by itself.

The late, great Pavarotti is a perfect example. He gladly shared the spotlight with rock stars and pop divas who were true to their musical genres during his post-prime years. However, he tellingly snubbed both Russell Watson and Charlotte Church at Hyde Park back in 2000 (?).

Domingo has sung with many a pop star too, but he has never once gone to bat for popera singers in terms of ringing endorsements the way he routinely does for his opera colleagues. His approval of popera remains suspect to me, even if he, too, in his later career deigns to perform with Jenkins.

Jose Carerras, interestingly, sang with Kiri Te Kanawa on the big West Side Story album of 1984. I don't see him giving Hayley's subsequent effort any boost, perhaps because many critics seem to like her and Grigolo's take on it better?

The point is, opera singers are a proud (and loud) bunch who close ranks when it serves their professional cred -- which is during their most productive years -- and occasionally give faint praise to popera stars when the opportunity serves them.

There may be an exception or two to my generalization, but years of reading opera boards have led me to think otherwise.

Hi Steve and all,

While I think you make a very valid point here, I can only personally base my opinion of this on the basis of what I read. It is pretty clear that Lesley Garrett and Bryn Terfel have both given more than their publicshare of warm support to the efforts of people like Hayley.

Unfortunately, your larger point is probably correct. I was a Charlotte Church fan before I heard Hayley - and I've seen this movie before... This is one of the reasons I get a rash whenever I hear the media referring to Hayley as an "opera singer".

Dave - I would agree with you that the public confusion over the term shouldnt mean anything - but in reality it does. One problem I think is that opera does require a huge investment in time and training to do it "well" - and it probably does hurt to see someone who didnt "pay their dues" in the same fashion go on and not only sell more records, but increasingly get more and more of the media spotlight once relegated to opera.

Having said this, I still must confess that with no more than two or three exceptions, operatic sopranos take me back about 40 years - to the sound of my mother screaming at me when I did something wrong. I keep looking around trying to figure out what I broke.....

This round will end shortly (presumably). Just be forewarned that the battle goes on......

Jon

[fusilier23]

In the end most singers do what serves their purpose at the time. Pavarotti did several charity albums that featured greats from other genres such as Sting, but let's also not forget that he used "popera" tenor Andrea Bocelli as his opening act for at least two years whe Bocelli was just starting out. There is no proof he snubbed Charlotte Church, that's just something she said in one of her rebellious, trash-the-angel interviews three or four years after the fact. Given that Pavarotti's not around to defend himself any more and that CC had an agenda when she made that statement, I think we have to take it with a grain of salt.

Domingo did a Christmas album alongside Natalie Cole (I think) and another alongside queen-of-popera Sara Brightman, plus another one that featured Charlotte Church, but only on two tracks, because by that time her voice was almost shot. He also fostered policeman-turned-popera-tenor Daniel Rodriguez. Jose Carreras in fact sang with Hayley in one of the events Bryn Terfel put together.

The truly snooty, opera-is-the-only-art-worth-calling-art folks are few and far between. Let it also be noted that neither Dame Kiri nor alleged CC-snubber Pavarotti are known for their intelligence, nor their characters, especially the latter, who walked out on his wife of many years to take up with a secretary less than half his age and had children with her in his 60s. Now he's gone down for the dirt nap and his daughter will have to grow up without a father.

Hayley's ability and character speak for themselves, and the ability of most other crossover folks speaks for itself as well. I have no respect for those who rely on "gimmicks" like swimsuited Vanessa-Mae, but Hayley needs no gimmick. She walks the path she has chosen, and a lot of fans choose to walk with her. If it isn't the path Kiri chooses now, so what? Kiri is a hypocrite who used pop and standards when it suited her, then pretends that didn't happen. She has no standing to criticize the next generation and needs to step down before she shrivels up and dies like the wicked witch of the Southern Hemisphere.

[stuartj]

Most Opera people hate popera or crossover.

José Carreras is an exception who has sung with Hayley and been very kind and supportive towards her.

Bocelli is hated by the opera world and has never done opera.

Lesely Garret has become popera and has been disowned and rubbished by the opera community. They say she was never much good.

Terfel has sung with and been kind to Hayley and other popera figures. It's been said that he risks losing the respect of the classical music world because of this.

Jenkins is hated by them.

Natasha Marsh is going to be difficult for the Purists -- she was a highly acclaimed opera star who has jumped ship.

Here is Hayley singing with Terfel and Carreras, watch the incident at the end where Carreras playfully flicks Hayley's hair. He has invited her to sing with him on occasions and she has sung at his leukemia functions. Carrearas is too big a man to get involved in these disputes. It's a pity Dame Kiri wasn't the same.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERaCIZUa3lY

[stuartj]

Well, one opera singer thinks Kiri should apoloqize:

www.dailypost.co.nz/localnews/storydisplay.cfm?storyid=3764963

Brennan: Dame Kiri should apologise

27.02.2008 By ABIGAIL CASPARI

A Rotorua opera singer is calling for Dame Kiri Te Kanawa to publicly apologise to Hayley Westenra and other "popera" stars for calling them fake singers.

Rotorua soprano Timua Brennan has come out in support of Westenra and Rotorua popera star Elizabeth Marvelly, saying they have every right to be offended and Dame Kiri should apologise to them.

"I actually feel she has put her foot in it because you cannot fake talent. I was very disappointed in her reaction to the girls and the music genre that they have chosen ... They have never claimed that they are classically trained as opera singers.

They simply love their music," says Ms Brennan, who has been singing opera for almost a decade.

Dame Kiri slammed Westenra during an interview where she said popera stars are all fake singers.

"People call them up-and-coming, but they never last.

"They are the new fakes for the new generation coming through, but they can only perform with a microphone and they've basically never had any form of formal training.

"I've had a 40-year career, but these people, two or three years and they're gone," Dame Kiri had said.

Ms Brennan believed Dame Kiri had underestimated the public's affection for popera.

"She has done more harm to herself because the New Zealand public really do love Hayley and Elizabeth. They have sell out concerts."

Ms Brennan coached Marvelly when she recorded two Maori songs Tarakiihi and Hewawata for her album and said Marvelly and Westenra were not fake.

Ms Brennan said Dame Kiri had forgotten how she struggled as a young artist when she was singing cabaret.

She said Westenra had been performing for several years and while Marvelly was just starting out on the international stage, both were not "fly by (night) wonders".

Marvelly had earlier said she was not offended by Dame Kiri's comments but was surprised and did not agree with them.

[stevemacdonald]

fusilier23 said:

... There is no proof he snubbed Charlotte Church, that's just something she said in one of her rebellious, trash-the-angel interviews three or four years after the fact. Given that Pavarotti's not around to defend himself any more and that CC had an agenda when she made that statement, I think we have to take it with a grain of salt. ...

I direct your attention to news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/1439314.stm in which you'll read that Watson was snubbed, more or less. Charlotte was, too, but Watson felt it the more. This article is probably the most dignified media treatment of what happened. I've read other accounts that use the "snub" word much more freely.

Incidentally, I don't recall Lucy ever commenting supportively or otherwise on Hayley Westenra. He certainly could have, given his long friendship and working relationship with Decca honcho Costa Pilavachi who was among Hayley's strongest supporters.

[Paddy]

Well done to Hayley for keeping her cool and rising above it all!


De em-Te Kan always makes most noise!


Paddy

[Jeff]

Of course, KtK only came to worldwide prominence through friends in high places, namely Prince Charles when he asked her to sing at his first wedding. What an omen for a glittering career that turned out to be ! At least one woman did well out of the farce and it wasn't poor Diana !!

[postscript]

Yes, I saw the two microphones, Joyce but assumed they were for recording purposes. I think we have to be careful and ensure we have good cause when shooting down Kiri, not just looking to backstab her at every opportunity. Cool, calm raison d'etre must be our response mechanism. However, those two microphones look very much like the ones used by Hayley, Terfel and Carreras in their open air concert.


Peter S.

[dutchjoyce]

Hi Peter,
Just read the article again, from the NZ Herald, and I have to say, that it never was or is my intention to shoot someone down.
Is it not very IRONIC, when someone says: "They are all fake singers, they sing with a microphone", that that same person, was singing with two microphones, even when the microphones were used for a recording.
Greetz JOYCE.

[Bill]

DISGUSTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My 1 Te Kanawa CD has been despatched to Oxfam.

Most unhappily,
Bill

[Paddy]

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Cheers to the little kiwi who just loves to sing!

[chungchungxavier]

Hi guys ! :> :>

I remembered reading about the experience of Nana Mouskouri being dissed by her classical vocol professor in her early years in Greece becasue she used to sing jazz music to earn some pocket money .

And now this incident involving Dame Kiri happens and I am just so saddened by that.

I have come to realize that over the years, or even after SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many years, the atitude of the classical purist people has not change , not one bit .

I re-read Kiri's words again and again and I was like "WHY ?"

Why said that ?
Why did that ?
Why trashed popera like that ?

Classical music is supposed to represent something sublime , sacred , graceful and beautiful in the world of humankind.

To me , intolerance and discrimination are in NO EVENTS , sublime , sacred or beautiful or anything as such .

Didn't people in the Western World believe that "there should be intolance of intolance"

[postscript]

phbrennan said:

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Cheers to the little kiwi who just loves to sing!

Well done, Paddy. Intriguingly clever indeed.
Peter S.

[James]

Apologies to those of you who are getting bored with this thread, but here's a small column from today's Daily Mail with Katherine Jenkins' response to Kiri's comments:

[Bill]

Graceless and does discredit to herself...unlike our Hayley.

Regards
Bill