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Post by Paddy on Dec 22, 2015 18:30:39 GMT
Destiny, the latest album from Celtic Woman, released in October, 2015. Features new member, Éabha McMahon. Well worth listening - especially tracks 6 and 15. Destiny Preview
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Post by John H on Dec 22, 2015 22:47:59 GMT
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Post by Richard on Dec 23, 2015 8:06:33 GMT
The cover picture on the album is beautiful:  That would look fantastic on a 12" vinyl LP!  Richard  |
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Post by Simba on Dec 23, 2015 9:48:16 GMT
Yes I'm excited too! They'd released a music video for one of the new songs (not sure if it's in Destiny)
Great song, great vibes! Mairead Carlin, such an amazing talent! She's established her spot bold and clear now, I mean Lisa lambe, susan all of them, great talents among the relatively recent ones. Lisa lambe was infact more talented than some of the original lineup. To me she was one of the best, so I really miss her. She added a unique flavor to it, and Meav can never be replaced. Loved it the best when it was Meav, Susan and Lisa for 2013 Home for Christmas. And I'm becoming a new fan of Ms. Carlin.
Unfortunately though I personally think Eabha has to be the not-so-great vocalist the group has ever had...Great vocal timbre and texture, but very inferior to the rest, technically, but this is just my opinion on everything she's done with the group that I know of so far. I'd love it if someone can surprise me with a particularly good performance from her. EDIT: Some of her performances with ANUNA that I listened to were also mediocre. I'm slightly upset because the group has always had particularly exceptional vocalists always...Oh well, will Lisa Lambe return?
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Post by Paddy on Dec 23, 2015 9:49:23 GMT
The cover picture on the album is beautiful: That would look fantastic on a 12" vinyl LP! Richard Yes, Richard, ... Fairyland.CD/DVD available January 15th. Éabha in New York, March 2015: youtu.be/YO06PFOPvuw |
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Post by Paddy on Dec 23, 2015 9:57:55 GMT
Yes I'm excited too! They'd released a music video for one of the new songs (not sure if it's in Destiny) www.youtube.com/watch?v=mabaKE-xNUo Great song, great vibes! Mairead Carlin, such an amazing talent! She's established her spot bold and clear now, I mean Lisa lambe, susan all of them, great talents among the relatively recent ones. Lisa lambe was infact more talented than some of the original lineup. To me she was one of the best, so I really miss her. She added a unique flavor to it, and Meav can never be replaced. Loved it the best when it was Meav, Susan and Lisa for 2013 Home for Christmas. And I'm becoming a new fan of Ms. Carlin. Unfortunately though I personally think Eabha has to be the not-so-great vocalist the group has ever had...Great vocal timbre and texture, but very inferior to the rest, technically, but this is just my opinion on everything she's done with the group that I know of so far. I'd love it if someone can surprise me with a particularly good performance from her. EDIT: Some of her performances with ANUNA that I listened to were also mediocre. I'm slightly upset because the group has always had particularly exceptional vocalists always...Oh well, will Lisa Lambe return? Tí r na nÓg is on the Destiny CD. Also Méav. Very much disagree with your views of Éabha's talents. Perhaps it's her alto voice that's not to your liking. |
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Post by Simba on Dec 23, 2015 10:52:34 GMT
I guess you didn't read what I said too well, I love her voice, not denying that. A voice like that should add great depth to a vocal ensemble. And she sure adds something when they sing as a group. But putting aside personal and subjective preferences aside, her vocal technique and talent as a totally objective, yet relative factor, is inferior to the others in the group. No doubt she is talented, and better than many contemporary pop vocalists. Just doesn't fit the standard Celtic woman vocalists have set in the past and recent times. She sounds like someone you'd call half-trained, but even though it's not true, it sounds like an un-warmed up voice. But mostly it's the lack of a proper vibrato that puts me off, on multiple listens, a very feeble vibrato pops in here and there, very inconsistent though. www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aXWu3JuPNQ This song from Anuna really brings out her unique tone amazingly, her voice shines. Surprisingly clear and crisp ornamented notes, but no resonating vibrato, which is foundation of good singing. Especially in a song like this. Makes her sound amateurish that way, don't get me wrong, if she wasn't in Celtic woman I wouldn't be so critical, even though she needs to develop a natural vibrato soon with the help of a vocal coach maybe...., but it's just that the rest of them have always been impeccable. |
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Post by martindn on Dec 23, 2015 11:21:36 GMT
Personally I've never been a fan of excessive vibrato. In fact I consider it a device to disguise a screechy voice. It takes a good voice to dispense with it, and I think Eabha has that.
Martin D
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Post by Simba on Dec 23, 2015 11:47:08 GMT
No one was talking about excessive vibrato Martin, does any of the other Celtic woman members have excessive vibrato? Not at all, does Hayley have excessive Vibrato? Maybe in recent times for songs like May it be where she's always sung it more 'legato'ish, yes. But besides that to have a natural vibrato is healthy and a sign of good singing and control. There's a reason why even instruments have vibrato, flutes, violins, all of them. Eabha unfortunately has little to no vibrato at all, and when it does come it's feeble and inconsistent. From a trusted source " It is unusual for a singer not to have any natural vibrato in the voice and may indicate bad singing habits, incorrect breathing or posture problems." I really don't wish to debate on this topic, because it's not a matter of argument at all, it's a fact, nothing to agree or not disagree on, other than talent itself being a relative thing. I can however understand how the lack of vibrato can go unnoticed by most people and may not come across as an unusual thing, because the voice still is amazing, and she's hitting all the notes. Though I can only truly establish this when Eabha improves her technique someday and there's a solid recording to compare her own vocals objectively and show how much difference it made. But it's because my ears have been tuned to hear these things more than the average, I lead a humble band in my college and when new vocalists join, sometimes the vibrato is non-existant, so we work with them every day, with vocal exercises that help you develop a natural vibrato, ofcourse that's the healthy way of singing. We're far from being as successful/professional as Celtic Woman, so all the basics are naturally expected of the group's vocalists. It is a sad thing though, new members will always be compared as they have the pressure of living up to the quality that the previous/other members had/have....I'll leave it at that, let the ones who can enjoy her singing do  |
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Post by Paddy on Dec 23, 2015 12:38:24 GMT
I guess you didn't read what I said too well, I love her voice, not denying that. A voice like that should add great depth to a vocal ensemble. And she sure adds something when they sing as a group. But putting aside personal and subjective preferences aside, her vocal technique and talent as a totally objective, yet relative factor, is inferior to the others in the group. No doubt she is talented, and better than many contemporary pop vocalists. Just doesn't fit the standard Celtic woman vocalists have set in the past and recent times. She sounds like someone you'd call half-trained, but even though it's not true, it sounds like an un-warmed up voice. But mostly it's the lack of a proper vibrato that puts me off, on multiple listens, a very feeble vibrato pops in here and there, very inconsistent though. www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aXWu3JuPNQ This song from Anuna really brings out her unique tone amazingly, her voice shines. Surprisingly clear and crisp ornamented notes, but no resonating vibrato, which is foundation of good singing. Especially in a song like this. Makes her sound amateurish that way, don't get me wrong, if she wasn't in Celtic woman I wouldn't be so critical, even though she needs to develop a natural vibrato soon with the help of a vocal coach maybe...., but it's just that the rest of them have always been impeccable. No problems reading - well trained and experienced in that field. Views on art and artistry are mostly subjective. As a well known Latin maxim suggests, one sees what one looks for. Attempts at objectivity, in a particular artistic field, might be more convincing, if terms borrowed from elsewhere were avoided. |
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Post by Simba on Dec 23, 2015 17:35:27 GMT
While what you said maybe true about art in general, there are certain circles within which these work, at-least in a specific genre. There are specific ways in which things are done. Now most people would hate it if someone was singing 'off-key' or off notes. You'd put your foot down to say, obviously she's singing wrongly because she's out of tune! But someone else who's not conditioned to the way we're hearing might or in a different case, tone deaf, would tell you, that's still music to his ears, based on the rules he sets. (even if it's unpleasant to the ears, biologically speaking) Surprisingly all of this is in the subjective realm too. But might be difficult to agree with because of what is regarded as an accepted standard by many. See where I'm coming from? The fact that, her vibrato is non-existent has got nothing to do with what I 'like' or 'dislike' rather what is regarded as good and healthy singing. Now what is good and healthy singing? Singing that keeps you're vocal chords in great shape in the longer run. The likes of Christina Aguilera has almost deteriorated their voices, due to improper singing technique. But still regarded as one of the greatest voices by many. (Sad) Hmm, when ideas are purely only yours and your imagination, chances are it's more subjective and personal than we think it is. Referring relevant sources to back you up, has always been a great method of objective reasoning. Oh well, on the bright side, The deep alto voice is definitely gonna add rich harmonies to their group songs and add considerable depth to those accapellas. So I guess I'm looking forward to all that Celtic woman on the whole, in all these 10 years have never failed to astound me with their amazing music. Ups and downs here and there, but nevertheless consistent throughout. |
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Post by Paddy on Dec 23, 2015 19:26:09 GMT
While what you said maybe true about art in general, there are certain circles within which these work, at-least in a specific genre. There are specific ways in which things are done .... Surprisingly all of this is in the subjective realm too. But might be difficult to agree with because of what is regarded as an accepted standard by many. See where I'm coming from? .... when ideas are purely only yours and your imagination, chances are it's more subjective and personal than we think it is. Referring relevant sources to back you up, has always been a great method of objective reasoning. Oh well, on the bright side, The deep alto voice is definitely gonna add rich harmonies to their group songs and add considerable depth to those a capellas. So I guess I'm looking forward to all that Celtic woman on the whole, in all these 10 years have never failed to astound me with their amazing music. Ups and downs here and there, but nevertheless consistent throughout. Of course I see where you're coming from. However, I disagree strongly with your application of 'accepted artistic standards' to Éabha's singing. However talented, of course Éabha is not perfect. As regards the artistic theory stuff: In my view, 'accepted standards' in art are no more than that, subjective consensus, developed and 'accepted' by some or by many. As such, they ought not to be seen as definitive but should be applied broadly in practice. The practice of art and artistry by artists themselves broadens and develops and redefines 'accepted standards' and not vice versa. Hence, broad spectrum critiques of art and artists seem more convincing to me. I prefer to critique on the basis that 'There are so many colours in the rainbow.' and aim 'to see every one', to quote a well known song. |
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Post by Simba on Dec 23, 2015 19:53:42 GMT
Ofcourse, none of the other Celtic woman members are perfect either. Perfection itself is very questionable. But to give an outrageously extreme analogy and in by no means comparing Eabha, let's say someone of the talent of 'miley cyrus' joins Celtic woman, we reaaally wouldn't be talking about art and rainbows there would we? Even if you're argument here would be as relevant there as well. Miley Cyrus in Celtic Woman, dreadful right? It's all about relative scales. Assuming values of 0 for miley, and 100 for Celtic woman, Eabha, falls somewhere around 70. This doesn't have any theoretical value by any means haha, but it's just easier for people to commonly agree with more drastic and obvious differences. But then again, the lack of a vibrato was very obvious the moment she started singing her part, might not be the case with others. So I'd have to agree with you broadly that one does see what one looks for.
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Post by martindn on Dec 24, 2015 11:44:30 GMT
In the end, enjoyment of any art is subjective as Paddy says, and music is no different. Hayley doesn't use excessive vibrato; at times KJ does for my taste. But when she was younger Hayley too often used almost no vibrato. That was the Hayley who made me sit up and take notice. So is vibrato essential to your enjoyment of music? I think that is the question to ask. And for me I think it isn't. But too much vibrato can be distracting. In enjoy Eabha's singing just as it is, and I suspect more vibrato would wreck that particular performance. I'm not convinced it would be an improvement.
Martin D
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Post by Paddy on Dec 24, 2015 13:00:49 GMT
Of course, none of the other Celtic woman members are perfect either. Perfection itself is very questionable. ....... But then again, the lack of a vibrato was very obvious the moment she started singing her part, might not be the case with others. So I'd have to agree with you broadly that one does see what one looks for. As Martin suggests, neither vibrato nor lack of it (if that's possible) is necessarily best. Either may be appropriate in expressing effectively whatever 'qualities' an artist sees in a song. If vibrato becomes blatantly obvious in singing, it seems little more than artificial and superfluous ornament tacked on to the singing. At its best, vibrato is no more than the effective use of the natural timbres of the human voice, varied appropriately to express effectively the qualities an artist perceives in the music. Lack of vibrato in the natural human voice is quite rare, unless deliberately contrived, and it is likely much more difficult to sing without vibrato than with it. It seems contradictory to me to admire the timbre of Éabha's voice (as you seem to), if it completely lacks natural vibrato. Must have a closer listen sometime to a good recording to see if I can find the missing vibrato. I wonder ... which sounds better, 'Meerry Chrriisstmmass' or 'Merry Christmas'? Perhaps without the silly, off-putting vibrato? |
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