Paradiso - technical aspects

[comet]

Jun 9, 2011 23:38:39 GMT kijjik said:

Don't usually post, but, as a past offender, I should say something here. I first heard Hayley on YT and fell in love with her voice in her live performances. When I listen to her recordings, however, I hear something that originally sounded to me like it might be autotune. I was upset because Hayley does not NEED autotune (autotune is not always used for pitch correction). Her albums continue to have a muted vocal sound to them that is not in the live performances and I find very annoying. I want to hear Hayley's real voice, but as of now, I can only hear it on YT live performances. I guess Hayley is pleased with this studio sound, but I am certainly not.

I am real curious about how you detect if autotune has been used.

Is it something you can hear ?

Can it be used at a live concert ?

Or is it something you can see when the file is opened in a music processing programme ?

I have heard Hayley singing without a microphone at a sound check and Hayley needs autotune about as much as the Arabs need sand.

[martindn]

I do take the point about her albums not doing her voice justice though. I have always said she sounds much better live, but I had always assumed it was the failings of the recording process that was the cause, not any deliberate "correction".

Martin D

[Dave]

Hi everyone,

Autotune, I moved the posts about it from the main Paradiso thread.

Well that NZ blog post first linked to by Martin D didn't even mention it, it was started in a comment afterwards by someone called bobberesford.com.

But there is bound to be some on Paradiso, they (producers) all use it or melodyne etc. (except perhaps on certain true classical/operatic CDs) to help produce the "sound" they want. This doesn't mean it's needed for pitch correction which in Hayley's case it isn't - but it can do lots more than just correct pitch. It ranges from saving an expensive re-take for example, if a note or two comes out wrong, to changing the overall vocal sound if necessary. And as I said near the start of this thread. I think they've used it (and other sound processing) less on Paradiso than on some other Hayley CDs and almost any pop CD you could name.

Comet, yes you can hear it, especially if it's overdone - especially if it's applied in one go to an entire track. And it can be used in live performances too although that has its dangers (if you sing a semitone out, that's where it will stay!). Hayley doesn't need it either live or on CD in my opinion and it would be a waste of money for her to even consider using it 'live', though of course I can't speak for all TV producers; some pop singers are rumoured to need it 'live' though, otherwise they'd have to to mime!

Cheers, Dave

[Simba]

I guess so, In La Califfa, the place where she says, "Propreita" is sounded really synthetic...however in live, she pronounced it very clearly, and then bits in Would he even know me now..are abruptly loud. But never in my life have I heard her go off-pitch/key/tune except for this one performance ...www.youtube.com/watch?v=adCU9tXmgsI I felt really sad, but she did the rest was okay, first off tune note is at 1:36 'tis seven long "years" And then comes the major clear one, at 1:52 secs, 'Tis seven long years since last "I"...And at other places where these similar notes come, however it's only this performance her all other Shenandoah live performances were amazing. Why only it had to happen in the US....I hope not many noticed

[susieverity]

Hi,
I totally agree that there is production on even classical cd's, but what I hate is when people suggest that Hayley 'needs' it or 'relies' on it or that she wouldn't be famous or a good singer without it, which is simply not true! When I think of autotune I think of pop singers who never sing live and then on their album it sounds like a fake sound and not a real human voice and i don't think hayley should be put into that category. I think paradiso is so good becasue it has less of the effects but to an extent I think this is also true of HSJS 1 and 2 which not many people outside of Japan got to hear which is a shame becasue they are so good. Simba- it is true that she was slightly out of tune in that performance, but that happens live to even the best singers!

[Simba]

Ofcourse I know nobody's perfect, I was just saying hayley is almost perfect as I haven't heard her gone off key at all (yes I'm a die hard fan who never leaves one video/performance unseen/heard) except for that performance, just mentioned

[martindn]

Makes me wonder why she always seems to deliver slightly "off" performances in the United States. Or perhaps on nationwide TV - she had that problem of forgetting the worlds of "Abide with Me" on NZ TV too.
Nerves do you think. We all know that she can do so much better.

Martin D

[Libby]

Well, even so, I know for a fact she got at least one new fan out of it (Shenandoah). I know, because I did a search, and found a lady's blog. She ended up buying Celtic Treasure. I remember she said she liked Celtic music.

And Michelle Baugh certainly didn't seem to mind Hayley's somewhat shaky performance of Pie Jesu.

And remember Amazing Grace in NZ recently was a bit quavery too. Not so much as to not sound good, but just enough to tell that she was emotional. So at least then everybody knew and understood why she was, and didn't dare criticize her for it. It was all about Christchurch, not vocal skills. But then the same thing applies for Pie Jesu. The song was for Michelle, not necessarily to gain new US fans.

[Simba]

Yeah I agree about the Amazing Grace and Pie Jesu, but Shenandoah, XD I guess it was just because she got nervous, not a problem anyway (even though I didn't like the more operatic version XD)

[martindn]

Got the impression Shenandoah was under rehearsed though. Didn't seem much understanding between Hayley and the choir.

Martin D

[Simba]

Yeah, that's right. I also think she wanted to be more operatic and wanted it to be a completely classical performance, and that being under rehearsed, messed a few things up I guess. (it must have been an on the spot thing XD)

And also I don't think I mentioned it here, but you guys were all right about the recording of Paradiso from the start, sorry for my over-defensive posts at the start of this topic. I really hope it gets fixed, (it already seems to have in the Japanese version =D but people aren't really confirming this), I can really tell it's somewhat badly recorded when I listen to really really amazing recordings of much famous singers and then some of her awesome old recordings, and then come to listen Paradiso tracks.

It's a shame really, since the orchestration and hayley's performance is absolutely spot on, so perfect. And recording voice at the same level of music is not the best idea at all, not at all. Hearing Dulce Pontes' Amalia por amor (the Utube lq version itself!) makes me able to tell the recording of that was much better with voice more projected (even though I don't like Dulce pontes much (or at all)), so I can't wait for a better recording, I'm pretty sure it'll be (or has already been) fixed.

[martindn]

If somebody can confirm that the Japanese version is a real improvement then it could cost me money!!

But I've got used to this one now, and I still think it is a stunning album. The orchestration is wonderful too; I would not like it to become too subdued I think.

Martin D

[dutchjoyce]

Hi Martin,

Listening to both....using a DJ mixer, 2 channels, 2 cd players, i'm not sure if there is a difference....it looks like the japanese sounds....how do i say....fuller(?).
.....but the japanese version of Cinema Paradiso, is a real surprise to me....wonderful !!!!
The extra DVD, makes it for a collector a must have!!!

Is it always in the UK, that post/small packets from other countries are inspected, before delivered, for VAT or tax or whatelse??? Don't know if you ordered from Ebay before, but the japanese version of Paradiso is available from several sellers, and total costs in some cases , looks a little cheaper than ordering from cdjapan or others.


Greetz Joyce.

[martindn]

Hi Joyce,

Thanks for that. I think that imported packages are inspected randomly- so any one package may or may not be. If you are unlucky you might get charged.
When I sent packages abroad I always label them "No commercial value" and that will usualy avoid any taxes etc.

But I'm less bothered about cost than whether it is worth getting a Japanese copy when I already have the NZ one, and will probably buy the UK one too.

Martin D

[Libby]

I'll let you all know what I think after I listen to mine (I've only listened to the extras so far).