Paradiso: U.S. Release (4 October 2011)

[martindn]

Ah, OK Libby, I think I know where you are coming from. Hayley's voice is less choirboy-like than it used to be. She has developed greater richness, complexity and I think flexibility than she used to have, but she may have lost a bit off the top of her range, and we are all used to hearing Christmas carols sung by choirboys. So perhaps for some carols, her youthful voice might have sounded better.

But overall, I much prefer her mature voice. Although she says she has pushed the envelope and developed abilities she never knew she had with Paradiso, that isn't the end of things I'm sure. Next time she can do even better - the difficulty if there is one will be finding material that does justice to her voice and technique. Morricone did that brilliantly, which is why Paradiso is what it is - the greatest calssical crossover album ever made in my opinion.

Hayley is a singers singer - the one they all look up to if they are honest and admit it. Some do, some don't.

Martin D

[Libby]

Yeah, that's why I say Morricone helped her in that respect - doing her voice justice. Because many of the WM songs didn't so much.

And I also prefer her mature voice now, especially when I listen to your video of her singing I Dreamed a Dream. I love it, and I never really cared for the song before, but I have to listen to it several times in a row now.

[martindn]

Oct 10, 2011 22:44:04 GMT Libby said:

And I also prefer her mature voice now, especially when I listen to your video of her singing I Dreamed a Dream. I love it, and I never really cared for the song before, but I have to listen to it several times in a row now.

Glad you like it Libby. It is currently the most popular video on my channel in the UK (but not worldwide - that is Ave Maria).

www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUp232TqepA

Martin D

[Libby]

The Bach/Gounod version from RoD is also very popular, the most popular song from RoD from what I can tell.

[Richard]

Hello everybody!

Please keep this thread on topic: Paradiso US Release.

Many thanks.

Richard

[tireman]

The emergence of Jackie Evancho could not have come at a worse time for Paradiso. Americanas aren't exactly known for their or this type of music an with their love affair with Jackie I think it would take a miracle for Paradiso to succeed here. I wish I were wrong; but that's unfortunately the way I perceive it.
I reiterate what have been saying for years ....Hayley must appeal to the American people with what they want to hear. She's more than capable to do it so it's her and her management's choice if they want to crack this major market. So we shall see what she chooses to do in the future

Larry

[Dave]

Oct 10, 2011 14:24:01 GMT martindn said:

I think this is starting to drift off topic - so might need moving somewhere else.

I can't claim to know much about the American market - but one thing I can do is look at the artists that DID make it big over there and see what they have in common.

I think Simba is right when he says that being American is a huge help. Americans seem to love their home-grown talent. Perhaps they regard Canadian as almost home-grown, which covers Dion and Buble. If there is enough of that why look elsewhere. And I'm sure there is plenty.

So what do foreign artists have to do to make it in America? There don't seem to be many that do. Many more seem to fail than succeed.

The Beatles were perhaps the biggest foreign success of recent decades. Are any of you old enough to remember how they were promoted? And why they had more success than the home-grown Beach Boys for example?

I also notice that many American artists get known through TV and Movies - that happens here too but is perhaps more pronounced in America. I think it is true that the mass market is more influenced by image than quality anyway. I have heard some appalling singers who have sold shedloads of records - becuse of an appealing image. If they can sing well too (like little Jackie or Streisand) it helps I'm sure, but if needs be with the right image that can be dispensed with.

Hayley has no image in America. She is just one beautiful young lady singer among many, and there are plenty of those that are American. I suspect that a lot of Pure's success over there was the fact that nobody else had sung Maori songs to them before. Paradiso contains no Maori songs - so that won't help sell it. There is nothing remotely connected to New Zealand on Paradiso. So she can't sell it on the NZ ticket.

In that respect, as far as "image" goes, Paradiso is quite weak. I agree that musically it is superb - but I am a person that puts the music first, and I think that is unusual in the mass markets both here and in the US.

Hayley's people could spend a lot of money promoting Hayley in America. But my gut feeling is that she needs a distinctive image to promote that is her own - and although I hate to be negative about this - Pasradiso's image is perhaps more Morricone and Italy/Rome than Hayley. I'm not sure that is enough to impress most Americans, despite the wonderful music.

I'd be delighted if the Americans here can tell me I'm wrong. But I fear I might not be.

Martin D

Originally posted by Libby in:
Re: Paradiso (general thread)
« Reply #937 on 10 Oct, 2011, 23:26 »

MartinDn, I don't think having Maori songs would have helped. If she'd had Maori songs on all of her US releases (E Pari Ra is not on the US release), then people would complain that that's all she sings, or something. I think perhaps the novelty of somebody singing Maori songs might also have worn off by now, too, if she'd kept on with the Maori songs. But maybe you're right. Maybe if she has some Maori on her next album... maybe one that she wrote... that might do her some good.

Sorry, other Martin. It's hard to reply to somebody in the more appropriate thread, when the posts I'm replying to are still over here.

Libby's post above copied from Paradiso main thread by Dave

[Dave]

Hi Libby,

You could have hit "quote" on Martin D's post then copied the quote into your reply in this thread.

So I copied Martin D's quote in and then moved yours and Larry's posts into this US thread. Larry's appeared, but yours disappeared into the ether, looks like a proboards bug I'm sorry to say. I managed to recover it but could only post it as a quote in my post above - if you want to repost it yourself I'll delete mine.

Hi Larry,

Album sales in the US for the parts of the chart reached by Hayley in the UK (around or below #10) are currently twice what they are in the UK, in spite of the five times greater population. So instead of selling around 25,000 copies of Paradiso so far, Hayley would (with a similar chart performance) still only have sold 50,000 or so in its first month on sale - and only then if it got into brick and mortar stores as in the UK.

With that kind of potential sales, it's quite unrealistic to expect anyone to invest heavily in promotion in a Country as large as the USA - and it's also unrealistic in my opinion to expect Hayley to chart higher in the US than in the UK. So Decca and the management just cannot put in the (expensive) effort that you would like to see.

Without something "big" on TV to promote her free of charge (like Jackie's Talent show) I'm sorry to say that Hayley will remain a niche artist in the US, in spite of all her talent. It's a hard nut to crack and they did try - with Pure.

Cheers, Dave

[tireman]

Oct 13, 2011 1:06:07 GMT Dave said:

Hi Libby,

You could have hit "quote" on Martin D's post then copied the quote into your reply in this thread.

So I copied Martin D's quote in and then moved yours and Larry's posts into this US thread. Larry's appeared, but yours disappeared into the ether, looks like a proboards bug I'm sorry to say. I managed to recover it but could only post it as a quote in my post above - if you want to repost it yourself I'll delete mine.

Hi Larry,

Album sales in the US for the parts of the chart reached by Hayley in the UK (around or below #10) are currently twice what they are in the UK, in spite of the five times greater population. So instead of selling around 25,000 copies of Paradiso so far, Hayley would (with a similar chart performance) still only have sold 50,000 or so in its first month on sale - and only then if it got into brick and mortar stores as in the UK.

With that kind of potential sales, it's quite unrealistic to expect anyone to invest heavily in promotion in a Country as large as the USA - and it's also unrealistic in my opinion to expect Hayley to chart higher in the US than in the UK. So Decca and the management just cannot put in the (expensive) effort that you would like to see.

Without something "big" on TV to promote her free of charge (like Jackie's Talent show) I'm sorry to say that Hayley will remain a niche artist in the US, in spite of all her talent. It's a hard nut to crack and they did try - with Pure.

Cheers, Dave

Hi Dave
Well Dave I sincerely respect your opinion. However; having said that after spending 40 years as a business owner I learned one cardinal rule. You must spend money to make money. This is true in any endeavor including the entertainment business as well as any other. Don't misinterpret my opinion. I have no stake in Hayley's future anymore than you do. I'll be a fan regardless; however it seeks such a waste to relegate this amazing talent to the niche market.
Over the last few years I have suggested several ways to try the U S market so I won't reiterate them them now. The lackluster effort that was made with Pure was an example of an example off not knowing the U S market.
As Mr Churchill said during WW2 ,"Never GIVE UP".

Larry

[tireman]

MartinD I can't believe you can say that the U S tends to only want home grown talent. Not only have we had a wealth of British talent rise to prominence; but we also have a representative of Brits in the news media. The difference is that they have given the type of entertainment we like. Hayley could do that.
Once you establish your self in this country you can expand into any type of music you choose. I'm sure that many of you are tired of hearing from me on this subject; but I'm convinced I'm right.

Larry

[Libby]

Yes, how about Andrea Bocelli? He is not American, yet he is a very popular CC artist. Isn't he also a niche artist? He sings pop songs, true, but then so does Hayley. Andrea is a lot more popular world-wide, and he's had David Foster, etc. I saw on Decca US's twitter that he was once #2 on the US billboard with his album My Christmas.

What about Sarah Brightman? She is British, and she is one of the most well-known CC artists. I would also say she is kind of a niche artist, too. Hasn't she been pretty successful in the US, too, about as much as a CC artist can be? She may not be doing much right now, but she should be almost as well-known as Bocelli, because of Time to Say Goodbye.

So, why can't Hayley ever be as successful as these people? What does she have to do to achieve this?

How well does Decca expect Hayley to do before they try anything more for her? Isn't being #2 on Amazon good enough for them? I wish she was #1.

Larry, Jackie is nowhere near the top on Amazon's classical list. So, obviously Americans aren't all that distracted by her. By the other artists close and at the top, you see that it's male artists that are most popular in that category. Hayley has edged out Il Divo, for goodness' sake! Seriously, what more does Decca expect? Do they expect her to be #1 in Music? That won't happen; it would be a miracle if she was.

[Libby]

Well, after all that she's no longer at #2. It's now down to #4 in Classical on Amazon, and #74 in Music. But it's not Il Volo at the top, either. It's Manheim Steamroller! It's only mid-October! Il Volo 2nd, Il Divo 3rd. Andrea Bocelli's concert from Central Park is below Hayley, but I am fully expecting it to pass her at some point. If only she could go back up ahead of Il Divo, though!

[frenchie]

Oct 13, 2011 5:14:27 GMT Libby said:

Yes, how about Andrea Bocelli? He is not American, yet he is a very popular CC artist. Isn't he also a niche artist? He sings pop songs, true, but then so does Hayley. Andrea is a lot more popular world-wide, and he's had David Foster, etc. I saw on Decca US's twitter that he was once #2 on the US billboard with his album My Christmas.

What about Sarah Brightman? She is British, and she is one of the most well-known CC artists. I would also say she is kind of a niche artist, too. Hasn't she been pretty successful in the US, too, about as much as a CC artist can be? She may not be doing much right now, but she should be almost as well-known as Bocelli, because of Time to Say Goodbye.

So, why can't Hayley ever be as successful as these people? What does she have to do to achieve this?

How well does Decca expect Hayley to do before they try anything more for her? Isn't being #2 on Amazon good enough for them? I wish she was #1.

Larry, Jackie is nowhere near the top on Amazon's classical list. So, obviously Americans aren't all that distracted by her. By the other artists close and at the top, you see that it's male artists that are most popular in that category. Hayley has edged out Il Divo, for goodness' sake! Seriously, what more does Decca expect? Do they expect her to be #1 in Music? That won't happen; it would be a miracle if she was.

Libby,

I don't know about Andrea Bocelli too well since I'm not a fan, but I can talk about why I think Sarah has "made it" here in the States though. My belief is that Sarah has done the time, and now reaping the rewards. I know when I have mentioned "I'm a Sarah Brightman fan", I have to say she was the orignal Christine Daae in Lloyd Webber's Phantom of the Opera. Everyone I have come in contact knows about the musical, and it being the best selling musical cast recording album, most people have heard the songs. The only time I mention TTSG is when I am talking to a music lover or someone who listens to similar genres relating to CC.

The second thing that has really helped Sarah is the fact that when she started her CC records in the 90s, she promoted the heck out of them. Sarah released new material albums every 1.5 to 2 years between the years of 1996 to 2004 with several special guest spots on gala albums and releasing greatest hits records. Not to mention, she hit all the major shows in the USA at the time by doing interviews and/or sang her newest single. She also had PBS specials- usually a recorded concert- that would play throughout the year supporting the current album. And finally, she did big concert tours in support of the new released album at the time. Sarah never gave the audience a chance to forget her name, her work, or even really have an opportunity to look elsewhere to be entertained.

To relate this to Hayley, I believe that she will have to work just as hard to be able to be recognize and finally "make it" here. And I'm not saying Hayley has not worked hard enough already, but I think its been periodically in this market. I feel that the problem with the American market is that we forget very easily great vocalist and performers unless you constantly remind us that you are there and you have new material out. And due to us having so many artists trying to "make it" in the USA, you have to be aggresive about putting yourself in front of the potiential customers. Hayley's potiential customers are easy to figure out; they are, as I call them, the "Barnes & PBS" customers. She needs to strike these customers with promo on a regular basis for several years though.

The final hitch, which I think Hayley already has taken care of (at least from what little I have heard being a new fan ), is to have a wonderful voice and amazing music that suits her voice. Not to mention, that is have "new" music on her albums according to the CC genre. Hayley doesn't need to do the Nella Fantasia, Nessum Dorma, etc staples in her records anymore unless it is kept to a very, very minimum like in Paradiso.

As far as little Jackie, yes I feel she has messed up Hayley's sales and promo for Paradiso. The "Barnes & PBS" crowd is a specific group; while its big enough to be worth while to promote in the States, it is not big enough to support numerous artists of different genres, but especially in CC. This is why I think CC is only a handful of artists to begin with, and these artists are all fighting for the same "recreational" money from this crowd. Having Sarah and now Jackie as soparnos, it does not leave much room for a third soprano in the market (no matter how good Hayley is) to become as big as the rest of the "made it" CC artists. Not saying Hayley can't make it, but Jackie has made a steep mountain into Mt. Everest for Hayley. However, I'm sure if Hayley sets her mind to it, she can succeed here in the States.
Alicia

[Libby]

Thanks for your input. I should've remembered about Sarah's part in Phantom.

I wish Hayley and her record company would have tried just as hard, but then that might have worn her out, and she already had a lot to do to win over the UK and other countries.

I'm still clinging to Hayley's statement that if all goes well with her recent US promotions she "will be back". I just wish I knew what exactly she means! And how well is "well"? What do they go by?

[stevemacdonald]

Oct 13, 2011 21:56:31 GMT frenchie said:

... Jackie has made a steep mountain into Mt. Everest for Hayley. ...

Remember, it was a Kiwi who first scaled Mt. Everest, so maybe this is exactly the challenge she can surmount.

Paradiso will find its audience in America and don't underestimate the power of word of mouth — especially where I'm concerned because I've already convinced two people to purchase it.