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Post by Libby on Jan 31, 2011 5:13:47 GMT
Of course I don't think Miley should, or could, do opera. That wouldn't sound very good. Even Hayley, even though she sings arias, doesn't sing in an operatic fashion. It just doesn't suit the quality of her voice.
Actually, Elliot, I have never heard Miley dismissed anywhere other than on this forum, but that's only because the only other place I really hear of her is on TV, and then that's not very often. And when I do, I only hear about how great she is, and how all the little girls love her.
I'm not saying that Miley has no talent. I just don't find her voice to be consistently strong, or even very appealing. The time she sang "When I Look at You" on American Idol (the first time I heard the whole song), the beginning part sounded really rough and very unpleasant. However, as the song went on, she got stronger and sounded better. When I've heard it on the radio, it sounds a lot better. But still the verses aren't impressive at all. Very bland and just not a tone I enjoy. I don't even like her talking voice.
I just wonder what will happen as she gets older, and a new Hannah Montana-like character comes along to take her place. I suppose she could do okay as a country artist. But Hilary Duff (Lizzy McGuire) is now pursuing a pop career, and from what I can tell, she's not overly-popular. And she does have a nice voice. She's just dumbed down her music to fit pop culture, so that it doesn't really stand out. And gotten thinner.
Maybe Miley's career will be better, but I still don't think her voice is any more amazing than any other singer I've heard.
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Post by anshita on Jan 31, 2011 10:04:11 GMT
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jan 31, 2011 11:46:12 GMT
Libby,
I've heard a lot more negative comments about Miley than you have, it would seem. There's actually quite a backlash out there.
I can't actually believe you're comparing Miley with Hilary Duff, though. While I admit to quite liking Hilary's early songs, the girl is clearly no singer, never singing live and with a voice that's notably weak even with studio 'assistance'.
Miley, by contrast, is far better live because of the lack of studio tampering.
If you don't like her voice at all, though, I'm not likely to convince you of her talent. And it definitely is a voice that won't appeal to everyone.
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Post by Libby on Jan 31, 2011 20:47:47 GMT
In case you missed it in my post, I said I wasn't denying her talent. I can recognize that someone has talent. The fact that I don't enjoy her voice doesn't mean I don't think she's talented. I'm just not interested in her talent. There's just no way Hannah Montana is going to appeal to a 20-something female. I'm at least 10 years too late to get on that boat. I was comparing Miley to Hilary because they are both Disney stars. As I said, I don't think Hilary's current repertoire is much good, but a movie I saw with her in it, her voice sounded very nice to my ears. It may not have been powerful, but it at least it was pleasant-sounding. So, she at least used to be a halfway decent singer. But I'm not a fan of hers by any means, so please don't misunderstand me in regards to that. I am definitely not a Disney star fan!  |
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Post by martindn on Jan 31, 2011 22:23:33 GMT
Libby, Martin, 'How much I like the artist' is about the whole musical package - voice & music. I don't know any of them enough to know whether I'd like them as people or not. Even the artists I have talked to on Twitter are probably on best behaviour so that I can't say I KNOW them, really. So I leave all that aside and run with 'How much do I like the songs?' That being a purely subjective thing, it's not easy to analyse, but originality plays a large part, for me. New songs and new sounds are always more likely to interest me. Beyond that, it's about pure emotional connection. Taylor Swift, for example, is not a great singer but her voice has a very gentle, very pleasing sound. Her music is not only written (most) or co-written (few) by her (Lyrics & music), but her songs are deeply personal and that comes across when she sings. That depth of connection probably helps explain why I rate her so highly. Writing your own songs would appear to be a very good way to get my interest. That and not sounding just like everyone else. You'll note, even my top rated singers by vocal ability all have very unique voices. Hi Elliot, I don't dislike Tayor Swift. I have to admit I haven't bothered to seek our much of her work, but what I have heard from time to time seems pleasant enough. I've always felt about Hayley that I don't care what she sings - that voice can make me enjoy songs I would otherwise hate. And she has done that with several that I don't like. No other singer I have ever heard can do that. Hayley has a significant songwriting talent too, especially as a lyricist I think. If you have been following my "Original HSJS2" thread, you will start to see how she took those songs and made them her own. And I think her lyrics too, come from her own experience, and since I have experienced many of the same things myself, they ring true. Through everything, her "never say die" positive approach to life shines through. I find it hugely uplifting and inspiring. She never sings anything dark or negative, even when she sings about painful things, the triumph of the human spirit over adversity is always there. She can even sing about death and make it inspiring ("A Thousand Winds or Listen to the Wind"). Her love of life and hope for the future always shine through. When I hear stuff like this, sung with such power by such a fine singer, my spirit climbs into the sky. That is why Hayley is the finest singer I have ever heard. So yes, choice of material, and especially an artist's own compositions, give a window into the sort of person that the artist is. In many ways I think the person that they are, and their choice of material and the tone of their own songwriting are linked. The best singers, in my experience, always sing from the heart, and they can't do that unless they personally identify with the song. In some cases that can be enough, without necessarily having to have the best voice on the planet or the best technical standards of singing. Bob Dylan is an appalling singer, but his passion and identification with his songs is sufficient to make him the legend that he is. But when you find somebody who does that as well as having an oustanding voice and technical singing ability.. WOW! Martin D |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Feb 1, 2011 0:06:39 GMT
Martin, Hayley is all about the voice, to me, I must admit. I don't think of her as a song writer, because there's no way of knowing how much anyone does when they collaborate with other people. As long as she's singing something worthy of her vocal talent, though, I'm happy. For me to start thinking of someone as a good songwriter, they need to have a serious number of original compositions under their belt, preferably solo compositions. There are plenty of songwriters who can do the job, don't get me wrong, and many good teams. But there are not that many people who should be solo credited as good songwriters, IMO. As for Hayley's personality, beyond the obvious 'shy, sweet, impish sense of humour' I cannot claim to have any real idea of who she is. Not that I mind too much as long as she keeps singing!  |
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Post by Libby on Feb 1, 2011 5:11:48 GMT
If it comes down to it, I definitely prefer Taylor Swift's songs and voice to Miley's. But I don't listen to her music (on purpose), either.
To me, Hayley is a very good songwriter, even if I'd only heard one of the songs she's written, I would still think so. How many artists are there out there that put out songs written completely and solely by the singer themselves, with nobody else to help? I don't know of many, if any. And I happen to think that Hayley writes most of the lyrics herself, and the other person just gives some input, but mostly just helps with setting it to music.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Feb 1, 2011 14:25:32 GMT
Libby,
You want a list? OK, off the top of my head (Though I did check to be sure):
Taylor Swift, obviously (Probably the best young songwriter in the world today, in fact).
Sarah Solovay (New York's finest up & comer)
Marina (& The Diamonds) Diamandis
Lene Marlin (Still surprised she isn't better known/more popular)
Michelle Branch (Famed for it, in fact)
Debbie Gibson (youngest female to write, record, and perform a #1 single in the US to date)
Short list, sure, but all artists I listen to and can directly check the album sleeves on to be utterly sure of. But the point, I'm sure, is made: people who write their own songs are rare, yes, but they ARE out there. And for the record, my list is not just 'people who write stuff' - these are all GOOD songwriters.
But doesn't that very rarity indicate the talent required to write lyrics & music all by oneself?
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Post by Libby on Feb 2, 2011 5:02:59 GMT
My point was just to say that Hayley would be a good songwriter to me even if she had written only one song. You seemed to be saying one can only be a good songwriter if they've written lots of songs. I don't agree with that.
I wasn't questioning any of what you just wrote. I don't question that those songwriters are good. I'm just not familiar with any except the first one. And she may be good, but what she writes and sings doesn't interest me all that much, no matter how well-written they are. Sorry.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Feb 2, 2011 6:55:00 GMT
Libby, I do tend to separate lyricist (Words), composer (Music) and songwriter (both). And, yes, I do not give the accolade of 'good' lightly in any regard. But 'good' will always be a matter of opinion and your opinion is no more or less worthwhile than mine or anyone else's. Music, perhaps more than anything else, is a matter of taste. You like what you like, and that's just the way it is. As do we all!  |
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Post by Libby on Feb 2, 2011 18:57:02 GMT
If it makes you feel any better, I kind of like the Fairytale song. It's actually one of the better songs I hear on the radio at work every day. |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Feb 2, 2011 19:32:14 GMT
Libby, It's YOUR taste. I honestly take NO offence from you not liking the same artists as me. Why should I? After all, I'd bet I'm not keen on at least a few of the artists YOU love Taylor's my current favourite female artist, not my goddess. I can accept her music won't be to everyone's taste |
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Post by martindn on Feb 2, 2011 19:51:31 GMT
Well, Elliott,
I have to accept what you say is the way you feel. But no way do Taylor's songs, those that I have heard, come close to Hayley's, simply I think because I find Hayley's songs more relevant to my own life. Perhaps that is important, I can't remember ever being a teenage girl with teenage girl hangups.
But I do know what it is like to be a young person torn away from family and friends for long periods of time, and to make a life in a foreign country, something that I know Hayley has experienced too and that experience influences her songs.
As for great songwriters, well there are
Bob Dylan
Carole King
Leonard Cohen (ok, He is more of a poet)
Andrew Lloyd Webber
To name just a few off the top of my head.
And then there are of course songwriting partnerships, do we have to rule them out? What matters is that we like the result.
But we are getting Off Topic, this thread is supposed to be about vocalists.
Martin D
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Post by Elliot Kane on Feb 2, 2011 20:05:33 GMT
Martin, If I looked for relevance to my own life, I can think of about one song (By 80s vocalist Tiffany) that I have ever considered at all relevant to my own life. Everything else I listen to, it's for the vocals or the music or both. As for great songwriting partnerships - of course there are. But we were talking soloists only, else you can be sure I'd have worked Gilbert & Sullivan in by now |
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Post by comet on Feb 2, 2011 20:41:44 GMT
0. Hayley
1. Nana Mouskouri
3. Leonard Cohen
4. Cat Stevens
5. Olivia Newton John
7. Neil Diamond
8. Kris Kristofferson
9. Imelda May
10. Ruby Murray
//. Sinead O'Connor
Bands
The Flying Pickets
Moody Blues
Fleetwood Mac
Abba
Beatles
Eagles
Pink Floyd
Smokie
Hot Chocolate
Mumford and Sons
I could keep going to a top one hundred and I would still have to leave out Singers and Bands I still listen to.
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