Hayley out of genre

[Libby]

I doubt when Hayley decides on songs to sing, that she says, "Hmm, I think I can sing this song better than anyone else, so I think I'll sing it.".

I enjoy both Enya's and Hayley's versions of May it Be. I mostly listen to Hayley's, but I still love Enya's too, for the reason Michal says. I haven't really bothered to listen to any other version of When the Stars Go Blue. I love how Hayley's voice sounds, and that's really the main reason I like it, besides being a nice, catchy tune. Lee is a good singer, too, of course.

[Elliot Kane]

I agree. I think one of the best things about Hayley is that there's no conceit in her. If she even knows how good she is, she never lets it go to her head. Gotta respect that!

[martindn]

Yes, Eliott, I agree. I am often torn on this, I want to tell her how brilliant I think she is, but am also aware that it will make it more difficult to keep herself grounded if she starts to believe it. So far she has maintained commendable modesty. It is just too easy to let all the adulation go to the head as you say. I've seen it happen to too many artists, and I'd hate to see Hayley go that way. I don't think she will though, she has her head well screwed on that one!

Martin D

[Elliot Kane]

Martin,

I think if anyone were to try to tell Hayley exactly how good she is, they would only embarrass her. She probably hears 'you're great' all the time and brushes it off as something said to every artist (And she'd be right, of course!). But she strikes me as far too modest (And just plain nice) a person to want to listen to massive speeches on the manifold virtues of her incredible voice. Part of that down to Earth Hayley-ness that makes her so special.

I don't think she'd be as good as she is if she believed in her own legend, if you get me.

[martindn]

Hi Elliott,

Yes, I get you and I agree. Hayley would be embarassed. As I have said ad nauseum, she never seems to get the publicity or media exposure that her talent deserves. And perhaps this too, makes her think she is less good than she is. After all, some singers that I think are appalling and can't even sing in tune seem to have fans, and sell for more records than Hayley.

But when I hear what some attractive young ladies seem to have to do to get TV exposure in particular, and when you hear some of the things that go on in the music industry, I'm glad she sticks to her principles. Those with discerning tastes who have been fortunate enough to find her know that the music is enough. In a just world Hayley would be the most famous singer on the planet. But this isn't a just world...

Martin D

[Elliot Kane]

Martin,

I agree that it's pretty rare for talent to count. Many of the people who become most popular seem to do it more by falling out of bars drunk or falling out of clothes in their videos than they ever do by mastery of singing, musicianship or song writing. I think that's very sad, though it does give me far greater respect for those few who DO succeed on their talent rather than on notoriety.

Hayley may not have vast fame or fortune, but she has integrity, which I think is worth far more.

As for a just world... Well, we can but dream

[Richard]

Now this thread has gone off-topic.

What a relief! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

Carry on Hayley!

Richard

[postscript]

Hi everyone.

There is something missing in all this debate about fame and recognition. A few weeks ago I attended a family musical event. When this happens we hire the Guide hut and invite friends of the family, who are known to be connoisseurs, to join us to help cover the costs, in return for which we also provide a full meal.

On this occasion a few weeks ago the instrumentalists were:
Chris Garrick violin
John Horler piano
Alec Dankworth double bass
Alan Ganley drums.

In their student days at the Royal College of Music they used to play in the foyer of such theatres as the Royal Festival Hall, at the invitation of the two main performers on stage: Cleo Laine and Johnny Dankworth, later becoming Dame Cleo Laine and Sir John. As they developed their musical skills these students played on the main stage with them.

Regretfully, I had a cough I couldn't control, so I missed Johnny Dankworth's last performamce when Chris was playing with them at the Festival Hall, just before Sir John died and I think also his son Alec was there, and John Horler, who became one of the regular accompanists to Cleo Laine.

On this occasion I wanted to shake hands with Alec Dankworth and tell him as I had once taken the opportunity to say to Dame Malvina Major, when she had sung with Hayley at St James' in London, "I know that tonight I have heard one of the greatest voices in the world. It is both humbling and exhilarating." In his case it was recognition of his total mastery of his instrument and of his art. I confessed to him that jazz wasn't my scene but when one is in the presence of some of the greatest instrumentalists in the world one simply knows one is at the apogee of that art form.

This is what they aim for. These artists know, better than we do, what the sublime height of achievement is in their art and they know how near or how far away they are from it. They don't need, they don't look for adulation. They know where they are and where they are trying to go, they seek from an audience simply the knowledge that the audience understands and appreciates what they are trying to achieve.

Chatting with Hayley in Exeter last year I told her of my late aunt, who died tragically early leaving four young children, two only just in their teens and two not yet there. She had that ability to enter a room unseen and yet her simple presence made you feel your day was brighter as a result. I told Hayley, "That is how you are. Forget your fame and international stardom. You are Hayley, you are the person you are and that is why it is so great simply to be in your company."

Blake expressed it so well so long ago:
To see a world in a grain of sand
and a heaven in a tiny flower.
to hold infinity in the palm of your hand
and eternity in an hour.

In the furore Kiri once created, Dame Malvina quietly observed, "You don't need to tell people about great art. Those that matter simply know.

In Chris's performance there is total silence, total absorption upon every detail, the instrumental fingering, the vibration of the strings, the techniques used for different styles of tonal values. The quality of sound from each instrument and their harmonic balance. I do not like jazz and do not have a single CD of Chris's but I know that in the presence of such performers I am in the presence of some of the greatest instrumentalists in the world. He doesn't want vast audiences (he has a full order book) what he wants is the audience that understands what he is doing and who are close to him so he can feel heir absorption in his art.

I think Hayley knows precisely how good she is and how good she isn't. She knows her voice has still more development, she knows she is still on the learning curve; she knows what the ultimate is in her art and what her potential is to achieve that within herself. She has not yet reached that point where she has to accept "I won't be able to do that". For now, it is "For the moment I can't but I reckon I still could." What she wants from an audience is an understanding of what her art is all about; where she is in that scale and what she is trying to achieve. She appreciates an audience that understands and applauds when merited and has the hard-headed sense to let the adulation go hang.

Just some thoughts.

Peter S.

[sharon]

Well said Peter!!!

Sharon*

[Elliot Kane]

A lot to mull over there, Peter. Thank you for that!

[joanne]

Thank you, Peter. That is a lovely thought. Or thoughts, rather.

cheers,
Joanne

[martindn]

Thanks for that Peter. Hayley might actually be her own harshest critic. It is clear that she strives for perfection,and conseqeuntly is still developing as an artist. She tries new things, and I suspect isn't always happy with the result. Quite irrespective of the fact that very few will ever get close to her standard, she still strives to improve, and I'm beginning to think she is doing it for art's sake, not fame and fortune. I think she quite simply enjoys what she does, and since I do as well I want her to continue to do it for as long as she wants to.

In the end the important thing is that Hayley is allowed to achieve what she wants to achieve. I think I have sometimes been guilty of making assumptions about what that is. But for me, far more important is that she is allowed to do it her way.

At times I have feared that the lack of promotion, and resulting low record sales might result in the hard commercially motivated management of the music industry giving up on her before she achieves her full potential, or perhaps trying to channel her into a more conventional image based on what has been proven to sell. That would be a crime against art, and I have never felt confident that those people understood what it is that they have in Hayley.

But nonetheless she has a hard core of very devoted fans who she carries with her. I have been eating out of her hand since the day I first heard her sing, and I know there are many others like me, and the number is still steadily increasing. Hayley is the most exciting artist I have come across for many a year, if ever, she is someone who makes history every time she performs. I want to see her achieve her full potential, and in this day of ruthless commercialism, I fear that she might not be allowed to do so unless she achieves a greater degree of commercial success.

Martin D

[Elliot Kane]

I wouldn't worry too much there, Martin. Bizarre as it sounds, I gather that more money is made from concerts these days than from album sales. As long as Hayley can continue to fill concert halls, I don't think she's in danger of losing her contract.

While the flash-in-the-pan groups are very nice, there is a great deal to be said for a solid, steady, source of income...

[martindn]

Hi Elliot,

I am sure that Hayley is well aware of what a privilege it is to be able to make your living doing something you love. There are many people I know who hate their jobs, and are trapped in them because of the need to earn a living. They would walk out tomorrow if they could afford to.

In a way I know how she feels, since I am past retirement age and choose to carry on working because I enjoy my job. I am fortunate to have an employer who is happy with that arrangement.

But back to Hayley, such a stunning and unique talent, not particularly fashionable (musically), so doesn't appeal to those who like to go with the latest fad, instead her music is timeless. It just has a quality that trancends fashion in music. That is why she can perform music from any era, one day performaing Mozart, the next 1940s popular songs, the next 21st century Karl Jenkins, the next an ancient carol. And she brings her own special touch to them all.

I wish that more people, in fact everybody, could experience what I do when I listen to her. If they did, there would be no problems with her commercial success, although I'm sure that that sort of success would bring its own problems that she might not welcome.

And, to get back on topic, she trancends genres too. She has made me realise they are not important. Music is important to me at least, and what she created is music. As she sings in I'll Make Music, such a wonderfully appropriate song for Hayley I think,

I'll make music
I shall make new music
I shall make music for you!

Martin D

[Elliot Kane]

Martin,

I have to admit, I find it a lot easier to list the musical genres I do NOT listen to than those I do. One reason I think this thread is such a great idea (And possibly the main reason, in fact! . I am not sure I will ever like Rap, but then there was a time I thought I would never like Country or Soul either, but all it takes sometimes is finding the right route into the genre. As I get older, I find myself appreciating more types of music, not less, and I have the wonderful advantage of being able to listen to all the new emerging artists as well as all the older artists (I wonder how Mozart would view being described as an 'older artist'? I like to think it would give him a good laugh! ). Music divides less by genre to me, these days (Except as a convenience when describing the sound to others), than it does by 'I like this' vrs 'I do not like this'.

Some of my favourites are insanely popular (Taylor Swift being the obvious), some are virtually unknown (Anyone else here fans of Skye Sweetnam, Lillix or Fefe Dobson?) but all of them are worthwhile, to me. Music is life and life is music!