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Post by Sandy Wilderness Girl on Jan 28, 2010 2:58:09 GMT
Hey yeh i cant see what the issue is hey...is just another reality show.......any way we dont get it here hey..........
Sandy.xxx
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jan 28, 2010 11:00:33 GMT
Picking up on another point from earlier, has anyone heard bands like Nightwish that fuse operatic vocals with heavy rock music? What about the ultimate crossover artist who combined operatic influences with rock music on several occasions...if only Freddie Mercury was still with us I bet he would have made a great go at "popstar to operastar". Freddie put out an Opera album with Montserrat Caballe. It was pretty well received, IIRC. As for the Power Metal guys - yeah, they'd be far better bets for this kind of thing. Can you imagine the lead singers of Drowning Pool or Sonata Arctica having any problem with projecting the notes at volume? I can't. For that matter, I'd bet Meat Loaf could really hold his own. Which is probably why he's on the panel. His stuff has always had a hint of Opera in it - and more than a hint at times. I'd love to see Dee Snider of Twisted Sister try singing Opera, I have to admit. Would be great television. He'd probably add a few more drums to make it interesting!  |
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Post by nicola on Jan 28, 2010 13:51:01 GMT
I love Nightwish, but it's not crossover, and they are no longer operatic anyway (they fired Tarja - their loss, they now have a mediocre pop singer). They belong to a genre called 'Symphonic Metal'. They have similarities, many fans of Sarah Brightman/Emma Shapplin are fans of those bands. Including me.  Sorry, I'm just butting in. I have no idea of the original context that James was speaking in. I just saw the word 'Nightwish'. |
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Post by nicola on Jan 28, 2010 14:01:30 GMT
I can only speak for myself, but my initial concerns of this show were not that there would be singers attempting opera poorly - that's a given and to be expected (although, like you, I have been pleasantly surprised). It's more that the programme furthers confusion as to what opera is to the general public. It makes out that Katherine is an opera star, and for two weeks in a row, their guest singer have been crossover singers. This concern stems from the elitists constantly complaining that crossover artists parade themselves as opera singers - which actually isn't the case - they are in their own genre, but when Katherine stands alongside Rolando, a real opera singer, it fuses the two genres together, causing confusion, and giving the elitists more reason to complain.
I have no problem with the actual contestants trying their hand at opera - it's just a bit of fun, and I am enjoying the show a lot. For me personally, I would rather like Katherine to say at some point 'I'm not actually an opera star...', but she's actually doing what the elitists have accused her of so often. I really believe in setting a firm boundary between classical and crossover, because they are very, very different, and I hate it when they are blurred together like this. I'm obviously not the only person that feels this way, which is why they made a new 'pure' classical chart, because the crossover music was flodding the normal classical charts.
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Post by sonata58 on Jan 28, 2010 15:22:13 GMT
Well said, Nicola. I agree with you.
I do enjoy watching the show on YouTube. It is quite interesting watching how these popstars learn a new way of singing and how well they do or don't adapt to it.
It is the title of the show that is misleading. An opera star needs to play the lead in a full-length opera. If the show was titled something like "popera star", that would be a different story. After all, not everyone is singing operatic arias - they are singing classical-crossover standards. This show can accomplish bringing the classical-crossover genre to greater prominence, but do not pretend that this is real opera.
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jan 28, 2010 21:41:38 GMT
... I really believe in setting a firm boundary between classical and crossover, because they are very, very different, and I hate it when they are blurred together like this. I'm obviously not the only person that feels this way, which is why they made a new 'pure' classical chart, because the crossover music was flodding the normal classical charts. I agree with you there, Nicola. The show will of course result in even more people thinking that Katherine is an opera singer and I notice that, unlike Hayley, she does little or nothing to try and dispel that notion, perhaps she sees herself as the female Pavarotti. How anyone who has never sung professionally in an opera can be portrayed as an opera singer is beyond my seemingly limited powers of comprehension.  Rolando is a different matter altogether, I have a superb album of his, "Duets" with Anna Netrebko - now there are a couple of real, excellent (and extrovert!) opera singers for you. I am really looking forward to hearing Rolando perform in the next show but if he does an operatic duet with Katherine, I think I may be in for a disappointment (after hearing his duets with Netrebko). Changing tack, the show has benefited Katherine whose Ultimate Collection album has gone up from 88 to 51 in the pop chart, and Camilla (who performed last week), whose album has re-entered the pop chart at no. 58. Both are in the "classical" chart (at 3 and 4) but neither is eligible for the "specialist classical" chart that you mentioned, so both are in effect classical crossover albums. Rolando has a new solo album out on 8th February in the UK, Tenor. It will be interesting to see how high this show gets him in the pop chart - I am sure he will be in it, for the first time. It's the power of reality TV - well any TV - and for that reason, I'd have no problem with it at all, if Hayley was ever to "guest" on such a show. Dave |
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Post by martindn on Jan 28, 2010 22:19:36 GMT
Yes, absolutely agree Nicola.
Reminds me of Hayley's concert with Aled Jones at Lincoln Castle last year (sorry year before, doesn't time fly). As we walked from the car park to the castle, Sue and I overheard some locals talking about it. One asked "what is on at the Castle tonight" and the other replied, "It's Opera". Hayley and Aled? Opera? I don't think there was a single operatic aria sung that night, (I might be wrong, but off the top of my head I don't remember one). But lots of Lloyd Webber, sure, if that counts, after all the boundary between opera amd musical theatre might be indistinct for some. Hayley rarely sings anything operatic in her live performances these days, but seems to be tagged with the "opera singer" stereotype.
But then, some of the sub-genera of "pop" music mean nothing to me. What is "hip-hop" for instance?
Martin D
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Post by Richard on Jan 29, 2010 9:52:31 GMT
But then, some of the sub-genera of "pop" music mean nothing to me. What is "hip-hop" for instance? It's a Lindy Hop dance for hippos:  Richard  |
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Martin
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Post by Martin on Jan 29, 2010 9:58:16 GMT
But then, some of the sub-genera of "pop" music mean nothing to me. What is "hip-hop" for instance? Martin D Have you never rapped, Martin?  Martin (-D) |
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Post by nicola on Jan 29, 2010 22:54:20 GMT
Marcella was breath taking. Sure, she looks like she is pain from all the effort she puts in, but she sounded incredible. I don't think Katherine can sing that song (being a mezzo aside - but Alan introduced her as a soprano *rolleyes*).
Danny, the McFly boy, sang Time To Say Goodbye. This annoyed me for several reasons. It's a MASSIVE crossover standard. It has nothing to do with opera. Danny said in his VT 'It's really big, and it's associated with Katherine, and all the big opera stars have done it...' How many inaccuracies can you see in that sentence? It's an Italian pop song, it's not an aria. Why label it as such? It's also the easiest song on the night, and he sang it terribly. I mean, god awful. So bad. Then all the judges chose to save him! Sheesh!
Just another part of the show that confuses the audience about what opera is.
But anyway - Marcella. Singing Queen of the Night. She nailed it. Would like to hear a crossover album from her, most certainly. I haven't warmed to Bernie, but I certainly concede that she's also excellent.
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Post by martindn on Jan 29, 2010 23:06:00 GMT
But then, some of the sub-genera of "pop" music mean nothing to me. What is "hip-hop" for instance? Martin D Have you never rapped, Martin? Martin (-D) Yes.I do it on doors when the doorbell isn't working! Oh, and presents too! Martin D |
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Post by martindn on Jan 29, 2010 23:12:14 GMT
Marcella was breath taking. Sure, she looks like she is pain from all the effort she puts in, but she sounded incredible. I don't think Katherine can sing that song (being a mezzo aside - but Alan introduced her as a soprano *rolleyes*). Danny, the McFly boy, sang Time To Say Goodbye. This annoyed me for several reasons. It's a MASSIVE crossover standard. It has nothing to do with opera. Danny said in his VT 'It's really big, and it's associated with Katherine, and all the big opera stars have done it...' How many inaccuracies can you see in that sentence? It's an Italian pop song, it's not an aria. Why label it as such? It's also the easiest song on the night, and he sang it terribly. I mean, god awful. So bad. Then all the judges chose to save him! Sheesh! Just another part of the show that confuses the audience about what opera is. But anyway - Marcella. Singing Queen of the Night. She nailed it. Would like to hear a crossover album from her, most certainly. I haven't warmed to Bernie, but I certainly concede that she's also excellent. Hi Nicola, Great minds think alike. I was going to post my thoughts, only to find you had already done it. Marcella was incredible for an amateur that was awesome! And Danny was awful - I have aready tweeted Katherine about it. His pitch was all over the place. The second worst I thought was Darius, he didn't have enough range for that song. If I were Jimmy I would feel hard done by. He was not that bad really. But overall, it looks as if the girls are coming out best. Martin D |
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Dave
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Post by Dave on Jan 30, 2010 0:14:02 GMT
Marcella was breath taking. Sure, she looks like she is pain from all the effort she puts in, but she sounded incredible. I don't think Katherine can sing that song (being a mezzo aside - but Alan introduced her as a soprano *rolleyes*). Hi Nicola and everyone, Yes indeed, Marcella just gets better and better, what an outstanding performance of such a difficult song, from a non-opera singer. wow! Bernie was good too and those two girls, followed by Darius, were the only three who will have what it takes to contest the final by the time it arrives, in my opinion. If any of the others get there ahead of them, because of their pop fanbase (McFly!) it will be a travesty of justice. However, if anyone wants to see and hear how opera should really be sung, download and watch my recording of Rolando Villazon's performance tonight of "L'alba separa dalla luce l'ombra" - by Tosti & D'Annunzio. Paradoxically, this is another of "those" Neopolitan love songs and is not from an opera - but in my opinion it is good enough to have been and all the great tenors of the 20th century have sung it. I love this performance.
L'Alba - Villazon - divX 1500 kbpsL'Alba - Villazon - windows media - 1100 kbpsI noticed that his new album (Feb 8th) was ranked 108 at Amazon UK on pre-orders before the show. Already, 2 hours after he sang, he's up to no. 50 and I can see it going a lot higher. Dave |
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Post by martindn on Jan 30, 2010 11:56:57 GMT
Hi Dave,
Yes, I should have added that I really enjoyed Rolando's performance. By far the best quest performance on that show so far.
Martin D
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Post by Jeff on Jan 30, 2010 12:00:55 GMT
I agree the women sung better than the men last night, especially Marcella who excelled in the "Queen of the night" aria, the most difficult in the repertoire. (So what can they give her to sing in future that tops that ?) It was no surprise to see 2 men facing the judges but I can't believe they saved Danny over Jimmy but maybe they were thinking of the ratings. It reminded me of the X factor when Simon Cowell saved Jedward when he had the chance to get rid of them. Katherine is learning fast and the advertisers will be pleased that the biggest audience draw is still in the contest but maybe I'm just getting cynical in my old age !  |
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