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Post by Jeff on Dec 16, 2009 11:01:55 GMT
Martin, I think there are some songs that Camilla does that actually improve on the original. (Let's face it, her whole album is cover versions anyway). A case in point is "Closest thing to crazy." I actually find it painful to listen to because she injects so much emotion into it (maybe due to personal experience, who knows?) I prefer it to Katie Melua's original. It's that plaintive quality in Camilla's voice that you don't get with Hayley. Not everyone's cup of tea I grant you, but it is mine.
Incidentally, when I said about stalking, Camilla is not the victim, she has been doing the stalking herself ! She made a 4 hour return train journey every day for 5 weeks to Gary Barlow's office to deliver a demo CD. He eventually ended up with 45 CDs on his desk before he finally agreed to see her. That's persistence for you !
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Post by martindn on Dec 16, 2009 23:14:21 GMT
Hi Jeff and Nicola,
Yes, she is clearly talented and has a great voice, so why do I have this strange distaste for her. I probably am as confused as you are Nicola, I don't know if I'm honest. In the same way I don't know quite how Hayley's music affects me the way it does. Te first time I saw Hayley perform, my reaction was disbelief that any singer could affect me like that. So I went to see her again, and it was just the same.
I have never seen Camilla live, but I do think her "In the Bleak Midwinter" is beautiful, one of my favourite carols too. So I am struggling as to why some of her other songs turn me off. I'm not sure I can rationalise it, any more than I can rationalise my reaction to Hayley. But worse, I'm not sure I could even stand to see her live. Again I don't undestand why, on paper she is the sort of singer I should love. And when i say things like that in public, i am aware that i am being very unfair to Camilla, who I am sure is a very nice girl, and a fine singer too. There is just something that grates that I don't understand....
I thought today perhaps it is the way that she had been promoted, that she is a bit manufactured, like one of Simon Cowell's acts. Talent like hers can't be manufactured its true, but perhaps i feel that there is something formulaic and a bit like that in the way she is being marketed, and that she perhaps doesn't have the artistic freedom that Hayley does. So we don't see the real Camilla, only somebody else's ideas of what she should be.
I think we have been promised a more interesting second album from her, and if she is given more freedom to be herself, I might like it a lot better.
Martin D
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Post by sonata58 on Dec 17, 2009 3:01:14 GMT
I just had a listen to Camilla Kerslake. What a voice!
I will admit that I believe that Camilla's vocal technique is superior to Hayley's. However, I prefer Hayley's image. I suppose because Hayley hit the market when she was young she had to presented in a wholesome image. I believe also that Hayley's personality causes her to maintain that image even now. Camilla Kerslake, on the other hand, seems to be presented in a very vogue and slightly suggestive image. That's just the impression I get from her music videos and photo shoots.
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Post by Jeff on Dec 18, 2009 11:46:47 GMT
Funny you should say that, Martin D, but I know what you mean. I like Faryl but I've never liked Katherine even though they're very similar. No disrespect to the Welsh lady who is a great singer, but for some reason her voice never clicked with me. Strange isn't it ? Usually with singers I like them straight away or not at all.
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Post by drew on Dec 18, 2009 12:43:33 GMT
For anyone living near Birmingham (and not travelling to see Hayley at the Barbican), Camilla is to make a guest appearance with Thomas Spencer-Wortley and All Angels at Birmingham Town Hall on 21st December.
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Post by chantelle on Dec 20, 2009 18:42:18 GMT
I will admit that I believe that Camilla's vocal technique is superior to Hayley's. (Warning- Negative opinion ahead! Sorry if you don't agree.) Actually, I find Camilla's vocal technique severly lacking. She has a "pretty" enough voice, but in a very elementery and rough sort of way. LIke a high school girl who has never really sung before and suddenly joins the school choir. I realize many of you prefer the "untrained" sound to, say, the full-blown operatic style, but there are still basic fundamentals of vocal technique that must be observed if the singer wants to preserve her voice at all! Right now she is using very juvenile methods of acheiving a "big" classical sound and is under-supportive of her higher notes, and sooner or later that will catch up with her! (You can call me a music snob, and you can respond with, "Well, let's hear YOU sing!" but the fact that I do study voice has no personal bearing on the fact that I can hear problems in Camilla's voice!) Camilla is a "good" singer, but she is very, very far from being the "best" I have ever head! I can enjoy her rendition of "Il Mondo E Nostro" because it's a pop song, but I'm afraid she will have to improve drastically before I can take her rendition of hard-core classical pieces like "Pie Jesu" seriously.  |
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Post by mihizawi on Dec 20, 2009 19:46:14 GMT
Hi, Chantelle,
Haven't listened properly to Camilla... but you are possibly right, I don't know... And, of course, you are very entitled to your opinion, and even more, you've exposed a quite constructive critic. I don't see any reason to undertake your opinion.
But now that you mentioned it, I want to ask you what's your opinion on Hayley's technique. Since you are in this forum, I guess you like at least a little Hayley. Of course, she isn't an operatically trained singer, but you think she lacks those basic classical technicques too?
I am not an expert, but I think, for example her last recording of Bach's Ave Maria is technically perfect even from seeing it from the highest standards of classical singing. Also, I think she has a special abbility to get very close to different branches of classical singing technique, but keeping it in a kinda subtile way. In the Celtic Woman's Lascia Ch'io Pianga, she sounds close to baroque singing, while in Wiegenlied she has the style of the classicism/romantic period; and in Veni, Veni Emmanuel, she emulates very well the technique of singers specialised in Medieval and Renaissance music.
Michal
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Post by martindn on Dec 20, 2009 20:26:44 GMT
Chantelle, you worry me. You clearly know what you are talking about, but are you saying that Camilla is risking damage to her voice? And yes, maybe in my cloddish way, it is what I am picking up. She doesn't sound quite "right" to me, and I don't know why. Perhaps it is her technique that is wrong.
It seems to me that she needs some top class vocal coaching. For me, she is nowhere near Hayley, Katherine or even Faryl. But the basic raw material is there, for sure.
Martin D
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Post by nicola on Dec 20, 2009 22:32:28 GMT
Wouldn't dream of it at all, Chantelle! You know I love your voice, and have seeked your opinion on several things before (including Camilla). Just because you know what you are talking about, it doesn't make you a snob. I find it invaluable to get an honest opinion from someone properly trained. I think whether Camilla is taking care of her voice or not is not really something listeners would typically notice, and would simply enjoy her voice. I also noticed how thin her voice was, but I actually like that about her voice. Camilla did tell me that she can sing operatically (not professionally, or anything, but I assume she has a different technique for her "other" voice), it's just her record company wanted her to use her 'boy soprano' vocal. As ever, I trust your judgement, but it doesn't really make a difference as to how I enjoy her.  She is not at all trained. She never took classical lessons. When I asked her how many octaves above middle C her voice could reach, she replied with 'I don't know what middle C is' which is probably the very first thing you learn about music. With that in mind, I think she goes on raw talent alone. |
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Post by mihizawi on Dec 20, 2009 23:01:44 GMT
I think she goes on raw talent alone. I mentioned the idea in another thread, but talent is definately not enough to keep a long term singing career, at least in 95% of cases. Talent can give you a first success, if you got the proper promotion, specially if it is supported by extra-artistic factors like young age or an interesting history. But if you don't work hard, you'll fall fast from the heights of success once the effect of being fresh new in the market passes. Michal |
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Post by nicola on Dec 20, 2009 23:03:36 GMT
I'm sure she is getting lessons now. The only reason she didn't before is because she hadn't the money. She did get herself singing lessons to begin with, but they were not classical lessons.
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Post by martindn on Dec 20, 2009 23:29:11 GMT
Hi Nicola,
Well, Im glad about that. It would be a huge pity to see that beautiful voice destroyed due to lack of money. But it shows the gulf. If you ask Hayley, with her perfect pitch, to sing middle C, you would get 261.626 Hz. Ask Camilla and it is "What is middle C". My earlier comment stands, Camilla needs sme proper caching, t be taught how to lok after her voice. I hope she gets it.
Martin D
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Post by mihizawi on Dec 20, 2009 23:45:47 GMT
XD,,, No, Martin, if asked to sing a middle C, Hayley would ask you back in what style you are asking her to sing... A true baroque C has a slightly different pitch than the modern C, and Hayley surely knows that, XD... Well, maybe not, XD, whatever, let's stop being so tough on other artsits, Martin.
Michal
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Post by chantelle on Dec 21, 2009 3:32:34 GMT
Michal, without going off-topic I will say that I think Hayley's technique is very fine, indeed! I'm glad that you all seem to be picking up on the main point of my criticism: that I think Camilla just needs more training. I understand that in this business one has to "launch" oneself when one can, but a couple years of serious music study before releasing an album wouldn't have hurt Camilla in the least! And Nicola, you picked up on one of my "pet peeves" involving not only Camilla but certain other artists (I'm sure you've heard this from me before! haha)... I just cannot condone Camilla being called a "classical singer" when she has never had any classical training! It just makes no sense to me!  However, I don't want to turn this into another rant. As you said, Nicola, hopefully by now she is taking lessons, and maybe in a couple years I'll be a converted fan. Who knows? Martin, I'm sad to say that I think Katherine is a classic example of what can happen if a singer doesn't look after their voice. (To answer your question: Let's just say that if I sang as Camilla sings, my teacher would be giving me a stern lecture accompanied by dire warnings!! And I know this because I have received those lectures, and worked to overcome those flaws) Katherine's first albums were fine enough, but lately she has shown decreasing ability in terms of range and breath support. But, that's another artist and another "rant" entirely, and once again merely my personal opinion.  |
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Post by stevemacdonald on Dec 21, 2009 3:55:23 GMT
This is silly. Camilla will do just fine with what she has. Her timbre is unique and no amount of proper training will improve how special it sounds. In fact, training might just knock the sweetness out of it.
As for career longevity, that too is overrated. It's time we looked at unique singers more like professional athletes whose prime years are when they're relatively young. The average NFL player lasts only five years in the business, but they make so much money in that short span of time that it's worth it to go all out. Camilla should go for the gusto now and not wait any longer. The opportunities may not be there.
Katherine may indeed be declining vocally, but so what? She's already made enough money that she never has to work again, so to speak.
We need to stop worrying about singers like Camilla and how they go about their techniques. What is important is what her fans love about her voice, not what her well-intentioned critics see as her deficiencies.
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