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Post by Dori on May 12, 2020 16:34:05 GMT
Hi Jillian
Dory here (not been here in ages), but I have been reading this thread for quite some time.
I agree. I believe Hayley has moved on with her life from her crazy career where she barely had weekends to sleep-in. She’s been through a lot and she’s going through a lot (moved to a new country, new marriage, and now Covid). I personally think it’s best to let her live her life in peace and as Jillian said, new content can be released however and whenever. It does not require a record label to do so. Nothing has been released because she doesn’t want to.
I believe we saw the best of Hayley’s career and now that she has moved on with her life, maybe we all should too. Constantly speculating and over reading into every post she puts out on social media may be why she has deleting many Instagram posts. It must be hard to live a life where people are constantly reading between the lines of things that probably aren’t there. I really do think she has moved on and may release music in the far future - or may never release music again. And I’m ok with that.
Dory
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Post by Paddy on May 12, 2020 21:03:25 GMT
Hi Jillian Dory here (not been here in ages), but I have been reading this thread for quite some time. I agree. I believe Hayley has moved on with her life from her crazy career where she barely had weekends to sleep-in. She’s been through a lot and she’s going through a lot (moved to a new country, new marriage, and now Covid). I personally think it’s best to let her live her life in peace and as Jillian said, new content can be released however and whenever. It does not require a record label to do so. Nothing has been released because she doesn’t want to. I believe we saw the best of Hayley’s career and now that she has moved on with her life, maybe we all should too. Constantly speculating and over reading into every post she puts out on social media may be why she has deleting many Instagram posts. It must be hard to live a life where people are constantly reading between the lines of things that probably aren’t there. I really do think she has moved on and may release music in the far future - or may never release music again. And I’m ok with that. Dory Hi Dori and Jillian, Your thoughtful consideration will surely provide welcome reassurance and support for Hayley, as she explores chosen pathways and new experiences. But we'll miss her. Best Wishes. Paddy
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Post by sundae on May 12, 2020 21:20:14 GMT
Well, I get what you’re saying, Dory, but it would be nice if Hayley would release some clear info to her fans. She gave us many clues that she was recording new music and raised expectations and hopes. Now we hear/read nothing from her. Not that she’s REQUIRED to, but we didn’t manufacture our interest and anticipation of new music out of thin air. But yes, I guess it’s time to move on, put our expectations and hopes at least on the shelf for now, if not give up all together.
Sundae
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Post by Libby on May 12, 2020 22:43:08 GMT
Well, I get what you’re saying, Dory, but it would be nice if Hayley would release some clear info to her fans. She gave us many clues that she was recording new music and raised expectations and hopes. Now we hear/read nothing from her. Not that she’s REQUIRED to, but we didn’t manufacture our interest and anticipation of new music out of thin air. But yes, I guess it’s time to move on, put our expectations and hopes at least on the shelf for now, if not give up all together. Sundae THANK YOU. And may I yet again remind everyone of a post she made only 4 months ago... http://www.instagram.com/p/B62hxceF-lk Puuhleease, people. She had no intention of quitting at New Year's. But maybe we should quit writing her off. Yes, things are looking uncertain, and YES we have been waiting for years. But come on, it's obvious she's still hoping to produce the album. Now, if the quaratine messes things up, I understand. It's messed a lot of things up, and then some. And, sorry, but knowing Hayley's past with eating disorders, I would not be too quick to brush it off as nothing, because it's fairly obvious that it's not. She's practically skin and bones. Believe me, I wish I could agree with you, but the signs are saying otherwise. Do you think I want to be right? I wish I was totally and utterly wrong, but I am not convinced. And, who in their right mind chooses to quit music and be dirt poor only to find some menial work? Because unless she starts going to school for something, there isn't much else she could do that would actually be enjoyable. I mean, most of us are used to jobs that we aren't crazy about, but a singer who's never done anything else is not used to that. Like I've said before, having customers yell at you is no picnic! You can be as nice as Hayley, and still get yelled at (as for me, I'm not nice to rude people ). So anyway... Color me UNCONVINCED.
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Joe
Administrator
Supporting Hayley since 2003!
Posts: 6,703
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Post by Joe on May 13, 2020 2:26:08 GMT
Hello Dori, Nice to see you on on the forum again! It’s been two and a half years since you’ve written, and your post from then, and your post from today, is very similar! Everyone is entitled to freely express an opinion for the purposes of discussion. We have no expectation of any new music at all from Hayley. But if you have been keeping up with things, you will have known that Hayley has been writing new music with Chris since January 2019. Hayley told us a year later that it is time for a new record in 2020. So, even if this new album might be released in 2021, there is new music that has been written, sung, recorded, edited and mixed. Similarly, it is Hayley who has no expectation of privacy if she posts something on her Instagram page, which is public. As are her friends’ pages. Let Hayley live her life in peace, you say? I suppose the 16,198 followers are agreeing with you. I am sure if Hayley had an issue about something on this forum, or on our YouTube channel, or on our Facebook page, she would have contacted us. Until then, it is “all of the public, all for the public.”
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Post by Dori on May 13, 2020 14:29:14 GMT
Hello Dori, Nice to see you on on the forum again! It’s been two and a half years since you’ve written, and your post from then, and your post from today, is very similar! Everyone is entitled to freely express an opinion for the purposes of discussion. We have no expectation of any new music at all from Hayley. But if you have been keeping up with things, you will have known that Hayley has been writing new music with Chris since January 2019. Hayley told us a year later that it is time for a new record in 2020. So, even if this new album might be released in 2021, there is new music that has been written, sung, recorded, edited and mixed. Similarly, it is Hayley who has no expectation of privacy if she posts something on her Instagram page, which is public. As are her friends’ pages. Let Hayley live her life in peace, you say? I suppose the 16,198 followers are agreeing with you. I am sure if Hayley had an issue about something on this forum, or on our YouTube channel, or on our Facebook page, she would have contacted us. Until then, it is “all of the public, all for the public.” Hi Joe I see your point and completely get it, but in my view, there is a difference between fandom and obsessing over every post. You have to remember this is a generation where often people post on social media without intention or reason. Sometimes Hayley just posts things. I’m also very bothered by some of these conversations on here because they’re so judgmental. Judging Hayley over possibly smoking (or being around second hand smoke?!) is wrong, and it’s none of our business. Having in-depth discussions and speculations over Hayley having an eating disorder is completely inappropriate. Feeling somewhat entitled to an explanation about her marriage is equally inappropriate. And speculating about where her family is in all this is opening a public platform for very private discussions Hayley has not given anyone an invitation to discuss. Have you guys thought about how Hayley might feel reading some of these posts? They’re very hurtful, even though I know, because I am 100% certain, that’s not the intention behind these discussions. But I truly believe fandom should have boundaries. Joe, you suggested that these posts are public therefore she doesn’t have a problem with these discussions - that isn’t necessarily accurate. None of these extremely personal topics - from family, to marriage, to health - are in any of her social media posts. And none of them - absolutely none of them - are any of our business. I also agree with Jillian. I think Hayley isn’t nearly as conservative as her classical fans want her to be, or perceived her to be. I think she is a free soul who had a public image for over a decade, and in that public image (as with all musicians), she was stage managed by her management companies who are paid to orchestrate a certain image that would garner corresponding fans. Am I saying she wasn’t genuine in all this? Of course not. But this is business and there is a marketing tactic management companies adhere to to separate the private person from the public image. Hayley was not exempt from this marketing tactic. I think she has far stepped away from that classical artist who commanded a stage in a ball gown. I think if Hayley does release new music, it won’t be to her previous fans’ taste. I also think just because she had recorded music doesn’t mean it’s been purchased for distribution. That happens in the film industry all the time, and I assume it will happen in the music industry. I equally think no one has considered how she may be a music producer, not a musician anymore. And now that Covid has changed all that, musicians will never record music the same again. I hate to sound like a broken record, but every time I visit this forum - a forum that once brought me a huge amount of joy over a decade ago - is now full of judgment and discussions by a small group of fans who seem unable to accept Hayley Westenra isn’t Hayley Westenra anymore. And when those conversations of understandable frustration start to bleed into personal discussions about really private issues, I can’t help but comment on it, because I am certain Hayley occasionally checks this page, and it upsets me to think how hurt she may feel reading these threads. Dory
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Post by crissyt on May 14, 2020 0:09:14 GMT
I think all of the views expressed on here in the last few days have merit.
The underlying problem about which all of these views revolve is that no news continues to be no news.
Nature abhors a vacuum. In the absence of some concrete output, the type of vacuum we have here can only be filled by speculation and rumour, which is corrosive and damaging all round.
A simple, positive post from Hayley from time to time would do the trick. I'm not suggesting a detailed running commentary with commercial or personal secrets, just a few words every so often. Instead, we have vague and conflicting messages together with photos and videos which are more reminiscent of the material my teenage daughter and her friends post than that which might be expected of a mature professional.
We all acknowledge that she may, of course, do as she pleases. If she chooses not to put out the occasional update, then so be it. However I happen to take the view that not only is that very ill advised because it fuels the speculation, it is also discourteous. I can well understand why those who have supported her loyally for many years, particularly long-standing Forum members (I don't include myself in that group, by the way) are becoming increasingly frustrated and disappointed.
Like Libby (post 6 May), I, too, have been considering whether my interest remains sufficiently strong to continue to follow what's happening and I'll be perfectly frank and admit that I've been considering terminating my membership of the Forum. Endless circular speculation really isn't that much fun.
Does Hayley read this? Of course she does. Why else does one suppose that the "quarantine house" output from Hayley, Stan Parish, and ROB has suddenly stopped, or at least stopped as regards Hayley? It's a direct result of the discussion on here over the last 10 days or so. No, Libby, I don't know this for certain. It's just more, albeit canny, speculation from someone whose been around long enough to have a pretty good idea as to which way the wind blows.
So come on Hayley, extract digit, and provide an update occasionally. Those loyal supporters I mentioned deserve better than they've been getting lately.
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Post by Libby on May 14, 2020 5:36:41 GMT
I wholeheartedly agree with you, Joe and Crissy, and I deeply appreciate your support. I've had quite a few ups and downs on this forum, mostly due to my strong emotions and tendency to get upset too easily. I sometimes hide for a while and become convinced that the whole forum hates me, but somehow, that never ends up being the case. Either some of you are just angelically nice and forgiving, or maybe I'm not really so "bad" after all... Well, I still kind of doubt she reads the forum. She doesn't produce music, perform, and hardly posts at all anywhere, so I question what reason she would even have to read it. And even when she does post anything, usually it's a story. She gets a bazillion replies to her photos on instagram, though, including by members of this forum! So why would she need to then come to this forum to see the discussions by some of the same people? The reason I always disagree with the idea she reads the forum is because it just does not make any sense these days. I believe she USED to. I now believe she has no reason or desire whatsoever to do so. I know she reads the replies on instagram on occasion, but probably not all of them. And most of the time when I reply, she "likes" my reply, and even sometimes replies to me! So, obviously, at least Hayley still likes me! So, either she doesn't mind what I say, or she doesn't even see it. Now, what do you all have to say about that? Dori has never agreed with me about much of anything, so there's little surprise there. It's WRONG to be concerned about somebody's health?! Seriously? Yes, people are free to make their own choices. And sometimes it isn't technically people's business, but it's my business if I want to talk about it. Why do we want Hayley to damage her health just because it's not our business? I certainly don't! Nothing I can do about it, but I can worry about it aloud if I want. Actually, I almost wish she would read it (but I don't think she does). It's bad that I wish her friends didn't smoke, because I don't want her to get lung cancer, etc.? They say second hand is sometimes worse than if you smoke yourself, so EXCUSE ME if care a little "too much" about it. Smoking is just horrible for our health, and everyone knows it, so I don't see any reason why discussing it should upset anyone. And it's certainly possible we're wrong about her going down the eating disorder path again... but I’m not convinced. You can't look at her in that recent photo and say that's how she has always looked, because it isn't. The facts are that she had an eating disorder once before, whether she realized it or not. And according to health professionals and statistics, those who have gone through it before have a tendency to revert back to those poor habits. Pardon me again for stating facts. Sorry-not-sorry.
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Post by martindn on May 14, 2020 11:24:55 GMT
Can we calm down a bit? I can see both points, and I don't think anyone here hates anyone else. Both Dori and Libby have valid points. The thing is, some of us have been here for a long time. We remember when Hayley was a young girl, ripped out of her school and sent to live in a strange (to her) foreign country to make a record. She was on her own, vulnerable and probably lonely, knowing no one of her own age. She did that for us, we derived great pleasure from her music, and the least we could do was to return her love in any way we could. Obviously what we could do was limited without invading her privacy, but we wanted her to know that she was loved and appreciated by her fans. I am sure that our support was important to her. The thing is though, she is now a grown woman, and is able to make her own decisions. She can now make her own choices in life, and like all of us, has made mistakes and hopefully learned from them. She is no longer the beautiful angelic child we once knew, and her support nowadays comes from elsewhere, from her husband and friends. She is making a life for herself in LA, and good luck to her. Just like parents with their children, we have to know when to let go, even though sometimes it feels as though they are cutting us dead, and that hurts. But they are not, they just want a bit of independence,and they will come back to us eventually. Hayley was never able to enjoy that phase of life when she was younger, her life was managed for her. So she is now enjoying her "Greener Lands". Of course we would love new music from her. But that is her decision, she could easily make any recordings available to us if she chose to do so (and as she did with Greener Lands). I know several musicians who do just that, despite the lockdown. The fact that she is not releasing her new material on the internet implies that she still has hopes of releasing it commercially. I hope so anyway.
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Dave
Administrator
HWI Admin
Posts: 7,689
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Post by Dave on May 14, 2020 21:39:14 GMT
Well said Martin D, I too can see both points of view and there really should be no need for anyone to be making what might be considered personal remarks - I hasten to add that I'm not referring to any particular member or posts, just to the way this thread has developed recently.
There is a 24 hour edit window if anyone wishes on reflection to amend their post, or after that, we can do it if we are asked. We don't want to have to start moderating posts as we've had to in the past, that's not something we like doing, ever.
But yes, both points of view have some merit, there's no absolute right or wrong here.
Dave
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Post by Libby on May 14, 2020 22:27:04 GMT
Is it good enough now? Or should I just delete the whole thing?
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Dave
Administrator
HWI Admin
Posts: 7,689
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Post by Dave on May 14, 2020 23:41:19 GMT
Looks better now Libby, it's been hard to keep up with the recent to-and-fro-ing and some quite long posts but your edit does help, thanks.
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Post by Libby on May 18, 2020 3:25:20 GMT
Interesting timing, but on instagram today, I got a follow from one @sophielarelle.
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Post by crissyt on May 18, 2020 10:25:47 GMT
A stalking horse! They're spying on you Libby! Only joking. Also interesting, maybe significant, maybe not. Instagram videos from ROB showing what looks like a bit of a party at the quarantine house. I've formed the opinion (might be wrong) that this is Stan Parish's House. Several people there including SP and Brett Benowitz who has been there a while, plus others. Notable by their absence are H and C. Have they both now "left the building", or were one or both remaining discretely out of shot?
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Post by Libby on May 19, 2020 1:00:29 GMT
Well, this is getting even more interesting. It no longer shows that she is following me. I haven't posted anything new, so I didn't offend her that way. Weird. She hasn't posted herself in forever, either, so I was definitely surprised to get that in the first place. I'm certainly not hurting for followers, though. I get about a dozen new randos following me every week. Don't ask me why. Well, I posed the question to google once, and it said they were "bots", whatever that means. The only thing that annoys me about that is when I DO make a post, the only people that "like" my posts are these randos I don't even know. It's kind of discouraging. LOL I tend to get all the "bots", all the junk mail, including ones threatening to ruin my reputation if I don't send the fake person a certain $ amount in bitcoins... Yeah, I get it all. So I actually almost wonder if the sophie account that followed me wasn't even the real sophie. Anyway, I thought Stan was from NY/NJ. His instagram doesn't say so, but his facebook does say New York. And his last post there was less than 2 weeks ago. He was the one who posted about being stuck in LA after that initial party. Rodney and the girl, Bojana Djogo, are also from NY. Her post from Oct. '19 shows her newly received New York driver's license. Chris is originally as well, but... last we checked he didn't live there. Hayley herself was just there for that photo shoot. From what I've seen of the place, there's a stair well, so to me it looks sort of communal, so I don't think any one person owns it. I think they're all just sort of roommates at this point, whether they want to be or not. LOL jk
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