|
|
Post by postscript on May 21, 2009 8:37:07 GMT
Fair comment, Roger. We've got to get a Berne-like convention for the web and I think it is policeable along the lines I suggested in an earlier post with the web sites issuing some form of electronic ID so that those less financially advantaged can take part but others pay a fair price ensuring artistes 'quoted' are fairly recompensed.
To vandalise G&S, 'when everything's for free nothing is of any value'. Admittedly this contradicts the concept that the best things in life are free but its a matter of defining parameters.
Peter S.
|
|
|
|
Post by stevemacdonald on Jun 10, 2009 18:48:46 GMT
Whether anyone here gets on board or not, one thing's certain: Twitter's going places. In fact, it's the cover story of Time magazine! Read about it here!I think it's just a matter of time before everyone's blithely tweeting away. Resistance is futile. |
|
|
|
Post by Jono on Jun 12, 2009 2:48:18 GMT
Of course, a few years ago, Myspace was all the rage. Then Facebook took over. Now it is Twitter. Like it's predecessors, it will fade when something else comes along. That risks fragmenting discussion, the fanbases, and an on-going comprehensive archive of Hayley's career that HWI strives to be. None of that will ever exist if we are dependent upon these five-minute wonder networking sites. Roger, where did you get the idea that they are five-minute wonder networking sites? Facebook is still running very strong...and to me is one of the most brilliant networking sites out there. I believe Myspace is in the same boat...but I don't use that.. Twitter works a little differently than those, because it is about updates...to be honest I haven't really caught up with the purpose, and have hardly used it to date. Anyway, just thought I would let you know about a fan who has set up an account on twitter to build up a fan base and hand it on to Hayley in future if needed. Purpose is to further the distribution of information about singer Hayley Westenra, her upcoming events and albums, and her family.This is the account: twitter.com/HayleyWestenraIf you have a twitter account, or don't mind creating one, please follow this account! We could also promote HWI through there. (there is already a link to the HWI website, maybe it was made by a member on here?) |
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Jun 12, 2009 7:27:13 GMT
Hello Jono. Thanks for the link, but I'm not impressed either.  Richard |
|
|
|
Post by grant on Jun 12, 2009 8:56:20 GMT
Hi Jono Like Richard, I'm not impressed! This is just another fan wanting to start his own "Hayley Appreciation Society" and it can only succeed in doing exactly what Roger is talking about - fragmentation of Hayley's fan base  Now, if Hayley were to start something herself, then things might be different Best wishes Grant |
|
|
|
Post by postscript on Jun 12, 2009 9:27:17 GMT
An interesting article Steve, thanks for making us aware.
However I think my attitude is paralleled by my thoughts on cars. For reasons I'll not burden readers I, who have had a car since I could drive at 17 am currently without one. I am giving serious consideration to not acquiring a replacement and running my life without one. With twitter, I do not have it nor see any reason why I should. It is like mobile phones, I carry one solely so I can call for help in an emergency, should I twist my ankle on a walk over the hills. We seem to be losing the ability to enjoy one's own company in the peace and quiet of the countryside. The increasing numbers of people who find themselves unable to simply 'be' worries me. They have lost a greater richness than cars, mobile phones or twitter can give them.
Peter S.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jono on Jun 12, 2009 12:30:21 GMT
Hi Jono Like Richard, I'm not impressed! This is just another fan wanting to start his own "Hayley Appreciation Society" and it can only succeed in doing exactly what Roger is talking about - fragmentation of Hayley's fan base  Now, if Hayley were to start something herself, then things might be different Best wishes Grant Fair enough! To be completely honest, I am not overly impressed with twitter myself...maybe I'm a little slow when it comes to the new craze. I've had my account for a while but have hardly used it...when I found out about the Hayley fan thing I signed on and followed. I'm a little unsure what you mean by "fragmentation of Hayley's fan base". What do you mean? For now I'm going to assume you mean that Hayley will have fans on HWI, on the Decca forum, on myspace, on twitter...and the list goes on. Hence her fans will have no central "base". But is this not inevitable? It is probably the same with most celebrities.. Some people may not be the "forum type", and may prefer something like myspace or twitter.. so wouldnt it be ideal to cover all our bases in promoting Hayley? If Hayley started something herself, things would definately be different, I'm almost certain you, and most members on here would join in. Why wouldnt we  |
|
|
|
Post by roger on Jun 12, 2009 12:48:24 GMT
Hi Jono,
I think your assumption about the fragmentation of Hayley's fan base is about right. The problem with Twitter, Myspace, Facebook and the rest is that nobody knows who is running them and, usually, it is not someone who has any authority or any connection with the artist or their managers. Therefore, any information contained therein could be unreliable, incomplete and misleading.
When Hayley's Myspace first appeared, all the signs suggested that she was running it herself. I doubted that and so I asked her. She was aware of its existance but, at the time, had never even seen it. She then laughed at the suggestion that she might be running it saying, "as if I'd have the time". And that is the point. Of course she wouldn't have time but there was no idication on MySpace that it wasn't her. Contacts believed that they had received personal messages from her when, in truth, they had not. Such deception is a disgrace.
So, unless there is some control from somebody who is authorised to give it, I will never have any faith in any networking site.
Returning to your earlier comment about networking sites being five-minute wonders, that is the impression I have formulated based on comments over the past few years. Two or three years ago, MySpace was a real buzzword and anyone who is anyone would have it. Interest in MySpace faded dramatically when Facebook was launched. Now, that is mentioned less and less because of the sudden arrival of Twitter. Somewhere in there, we also had Gather... whatever that was. And doubtless, something else will take over in a year or two. I would not waste my time on anything with such an unstable future.
Roger
|
|
|
|
Post by grant on Jun 12, 2009 13:36:17 GMT
Hi Jono I'm a little unsure what you mean by "fragmentation of Hayley's fan base". What do you mean? Basically, yes, your assumption is correct. Why would a new fan want to start yet another fan site for any celebrity, when there are already several in existence? It is bound to lead to fragmentation. That new fan would be far better suited to bring his or her contribution to an existing outlet. Setting up a fan site and maintaining it requires effort and the chances are that it will be abandoned, leaving those who have joined it looking for somewhere else to go at a time they could have become established with an existing one. Best wishes Grant |
|
Dave
Administrator
HWI Admin
Posts: 7,699
|
Post by Dave on Jun 12, 2009 14:33:10 GMT
I'm a little unsure what you mean by "fragmentation of Hayley's fan base". What do you mean? For now I'm going to assume you mean that Hayley will have fans on HWI, on the Decca forum, on myspace, on twitter...and the list goes on. Hence her fans will have no central "base". But is this not inevitable? It is probably the same with most celebrities.. Some people may not be the "forum type", and may prefer something like myspace or twitter.. so wouldnt it be ideal to cover all our bases in promoting Hayley? If Hayley started something herself, things would definately be different, I'm almost certain you, and most members on here would join in. Why wouldnt we Hi Jono, Just to add a few words to this discussion, there's also the issue of the additional time and effort required to run all these suggested (and sometimes transitory) outlets. HWI has three arms already, a website, forum and youTube presence and this does cause additional work and duplication at times - adding more arms would only add to this. That's one of the reasons I have never engaged in Belinda's Hayley Chat room (even though it's only once a month), time considerations. At the end of the day, The Internet is The Internet - and we are on it. Whilst commercial organizations will no doubt continue to set up and promote new kinds of internet presence, using their own individual websites and potentially fragmenting everything anyone does, we can't be involved with them all, not even the "latest craze" i.e. Twitter. Next year, there will be another, then another... but sometimes, you have to draw a line and stop, because there are only so many hours in a day. Cheers, Dave |
|
|
|
Post by postscript on Jun 12, 2009 16:39:11 GMT
Hi Jono I'm a little unsure what you mean by "fragmentation of Hayley's fan base". What do you mean? Basically, yes, your assumption is correct. Why would a new fan want to start yet another fan site for any celebrity, when there are already several in existence? It is bound to lead to fragmentation. That new fan would be far better suited to bring his or her contribution to an existing outlet. Setting up a fan site and maintaining it requires effort and the chances are that it will be abandoned, leaving those who have joined it looking for somewhere else to go at a time they could have become established with an existing one. Best wishes Grant But this debate also raises the question, 'why does HWI exist at all and continues?' Because despite the existence of money being spent on the official web site, it does not provide a tenth of what is here. The prime answer to preventing fragmentation is that the one official and first-call site satisfies all needs but it doesn't! Hence HWI, its original creators pointing out these failings and offering to supplement such deficiencies for free, out of their realising that Hayley was someone very special who deserved such considerations. Therefore HWI has the support and encouragement of the key people involved: Hayley, her parents and her management team. The validity of HWI is that it is very obviously NOT an individual's desire to promote their chosen artiste, against which the thought must arise, how much of that fan's ego is driving the new idea as opposed to a desire to serve the artiste? The strength of HWI is that the driving force is a team of people who first came as fans to learn but then realised its value and offered to participate. That is the key strength very few other sites can offer. Peter S. |
|
|
|
Post by stevemacdonald on Jun 12, 2009 18:41:19 GMT
The main reason I and others have recommended an HWI/Twitter connection is to spread the word about Hayley. Right now, as a word-spreading utility, nothing beats Twitter -- and surely something'll come along eventually that blows Twiter out of the water -- but for now, this is a marvelous tool to introduce potential fans to Hayley.
Believe it or not (or should I say "like it or not") a spontaneous Hayley fan base is starting to emerge thanks to this gimmicky, no doubt ephemeral, device. This consists of individuals who first heard about Hayley because they use Twitter. Imagine that, 'cuz it's true. Maybe that's the only way they would have found out about her. Maybe they will spread the word all the more eagerly via Twitter, given its ridiculous ease of use. If they become super fans, like the majority of us in HWI, then they will sooner or later take full advantage of what HWI continues to offer over the long haul.
The point is not to divide and conquer, but to reach out and include. The opportunity to exploit a timely tool like Twitter to facilitate further fan outreach is now. Wait a few years and it will certainly be something else, and later something else, and so on.
Peter, there is a tangent to your statement about ego. With Twitter, all you have is 140 characters to make your case. That doesn't leave a lot of room for articulate commentary. People who participate on such a platform must learn the value of concision. Twitter is very humbling and not for everyone.
|
|
|
|
Post by natalie on Jun 12, 2009 21:38:50 GMT
Just click to follow Hayley
|
|
|
|
Post by martindn on Jun 12, 2009 22:12:01 GMT
Well, I for one think that any way we can promote Hayley is worthwhile. I'm not into twitter either, but if it can be used to bring Hayley to a new group of people, that can only be a good thing.
Remember, Hayley does not seem to have the approval of the "machine" which is more interested in making money and politics than in promoting the best artists. So artists who are prepared to sell their souls to the likes of Simon Cowell get huge publicity, whilst those who refuse to do so are never heard of again n matter how good they are. Hayley only survives as she does because she has a talent that cannot be ignored by anyone who has heard her. She sells out concerts despite being almost totally ignored by the media.
So any publicity we can get is good publicity. Hayley is I'm sure not prepared to compromise her principles by doing outrageous things to get her name in the papers, and I'm glad. That is refreshing, and makes me admire her even more. It would be too easy for a musician living in London to get involved in drugs etc.,especially as that could get her valuable publicity.
It would also be good if her Twirtter presence had references and pointers to HWI and the official website. Anyone seriously interested in Hayley will, I think, end up here eventually.
Remember we have something very special in Hayley. I have never heard anyone ever say that they thought Hayley was average, or even quite good. If you are other than indifferent to her, she is one of if not the best of all time!
Martin
|
|
|
|
Post by Jono on Jun 13, 2009 14:24:19 GMT
Roger, You'll be surprised... because if you base what the most popular sites are on what more people are talking about, or what is featured more on the headlines, then you'd be wrong... It was actually someone on the Decca forum who pointed out to me that by traffic, Myspace and Facebook are still much higher than Twitter.. By traffic: facebook is ranked 4th, myspace 10th, and twitter 39th (i.e. of all websites, in the last 3 months). you can find these statistics on www.alexa.com - I found them shocking myself. Dave, The time and effort issue is a good reason to not want to extend into other areas - especially if it means sacrificing the great quality we get here. It would be good if we could offer support to these other mediums though, work together...hopefully that would result in more "die-hard" members here. martindn, I agree completely  |
|
