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Post by postscript on May 12, 2009 10:57:14 GMT
Interesting Chantelle, especially in your comment about smaller venues and defined 'small' circuits. For different or perhaps adjacent reasons we seem to have similar thoughts.
See my post following this post of yours but unaware of your post, regarding picking up on points raised by Martin.
Peter S.
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Post by postscript on May 12, 2009 11:07:26 GMT
Hi Martin, I don't know if I agree that Hayley would have to sell her soul to the mass media; but I do agree with the small venue concept. I really love coming to the U K to see Hayley and I don't think I would enjoy her as much in a huge venue. The only problem I have is the expense. I've been to the U K and Ireland five times since December of 2007and I'm afraid to count up how much money I've spent. Not to mention the rigors of International travel. I'd really like to see her in N Z but then I'd have to give up my trip to England and Ireland in December. I've seen her with the RTE orchestra twice and I really enjoy Hayley with a full orchestra. Larry Another interesting input on the small venue possibilities in the US! I don't wish to contradict you Larry but just an observation for you, my experience of Hayley in the large arenas of Cardiff and Bath were fantastic. In Bath I was in the front row of the Balcony and sensed the entire Balcony as absorbed as I was with her. When you have a great body of people reacting almost as spontaneously as yourself it somehow heightens your own experience. Peter S. |
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Post by Libby on May 14, 2009 1:38:01 GMT
Peter, in America, the larger venues are arenas or stadiums, normally used for sports. For example, Celine Dion was at the Tacoma Dome here on her last tour. Compared to stadiums like that, the Paramount Theatre in Seattle, where Celtic Woman will be this weekend, is quite small. However, it is not tiny; it does have a balcony! It's very beautiful inside. BTW, I'm going to see CW there on Sunday!  They're there the whole weekend! That theater prohibits photography, though so again, maybe that isn't the ideal place. But I'll take what I can get! At this point, I'd seriously think of travellling across the country to see her, if there was no other alternative. |
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Post by romancoronado on Sept 20, 2010 23:33:30 GMT
It's so difficult to know where to start with all of this. So many points I side with while others I see as questionable. First and foremost what should be important is what Hayley feels is beneficial for her. I would love nothing more than to see Hayley become successful over here in the U.S. because that way "we" (Americans) would actually have a chance to see her. At the same time I would not be comfortable with her having the success similar to those such as Brittany Spears, Jessica Simpson, et al, only because it would come at a great cost to Hayley. We all know Hayley values being a private person, she has said this on a number of occasions in interviews. If she achieved that level of fame, that would be the first thing out the window. Constantly chased by paparazzi and the like, her entire private life on display for everyone to see or read about, people casting judgement on her for what she does in her personal private time....that's just something that NONE OF US would ever want her to go through. I mean just look at the so called "artists" I mentioned above...recall what has happened to Brittany Spears life over the last several years. Grant it that Hayley has way more smarts as a human being that Brittany ever will and that I doubt that Hayley would ever put herself in any sort of compromising position, but do we really want to chance that? Fame is....an evil son of a b****. It can take the most noble of people and change things against their will. I would love to see Hayley's popularity grow even stronger here in the U.S. But not to that level. It's....too dangerous and I fear for Hayley the negative impact it could have. Now another related subject - I have total faith in Hayley as an artist and as a person. I believe that Hayley has a quality about her that can win over so many people. I will never doubt her as an artist or a person. Like I said, complete total faith in her and I will continue to thow my support behind her for as long as she wishes to perform. What I don't have faith in is the American audience and the American music business. I'm assuming it's the same person but on one of the other Hayley forums (the one that I believe Libby runs) someone posted a thread called "Could Hayley Change the World". That thread exists here on this forum as well. I answered on the other forum and I'll post that link here. My response in that link actually goes into this topic as well so rather than retyping it and making this post even longer than what I've already made it, I'll post the link and you can read my "atheist" attitude towards the American audience. hayleywestenra.forums.umusic.co.uk/t/1602.aspxAs far as the possible venues she could perform in. Here in Fort Worth, TX USA we have our major performance hall, Bass Performance Hall. This hall is home to the Fort Worth Symphony Orchestra, Texas Ballet Theatre, Fort Worth Opera and most importantly the Van Cliburn International Piano Competition (which brings in TONS of money to the city every 4 years when the competition is held). This hall holds all sorts of concerts ranging from classical to any genre outside of classical. It holds up to 2,056 seats. Those size venues, in my opinion, would be the ideal size for a Hayley performance. Nothing absurd like a sporting stadium. If those size venues are possible throughout the U.S. then maybe Hayley stands a very good shot at finally "breaking in". But alas, there's my lack of faith in the audience. As far as the lack of response on this forum from the U.S. fans, I agree that it's because for the most part we can't relate to most of you outside of the U.S. Several of you have had the chance to attend at the very least one Hayley concert. The majority of us (Americans) haven't. We can only rely upon the albums that are available here in the U.S. (and those that any individual has decided to import), youtube and forums such as this one. By the time that sort of info hits us most of the threads on a specific topic (an album, video, concert, interview, etc) are dead. I hope to one day see Hayley in concert or just to meet her in person but with cost of traveling overseas, for me it won't be for a very long time  |
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Post by milewalker on Sept 21, 2010 5:26:30 GMT
Popularity in the US media is very much like the concept of reaching critical mass. It isnt really that hard to understand - it is just hard to do. Simply reach a point where your profile begins to generate enough buzz on its own to produce more profile, and you will start an autocatalytic process which will drive your fame and success forward. Not easy to reach that point, and Hayley has quite frankly never been close The following is probably somewhat off topic, though it relates to why this American fan participates less than he use to, and I am not certain where else to put it. Speaking personally, I almost never even read the concert depictions anymore. Every concert seems to the uninitiate to be very similar to every other concert, and subject to slight variation because different people tend to focus on somewhat different things. Am I missing on details which might interest me? Almost certainly. Is it worth the time it takes for me to sift through all of those similar accounts to find them? Perhaps if I were on vacation or something it might - but Hayley's overall relevance in my life is so insufficient that other more relevant things take up more time. Perhaps the thing which makes the concert descriptions by members most difficult merely reflects an aspect of human nature which is almost unavoidable. I find a certain sense of entitlement - particularly from the people in the UK. Hayley has been a part of your cultural lives for as long as she has been an international star, The effect of this is very much like looking at a small, insulate and exclusive club from the outside. The lack of geographical balance inevitably presents a situation where "all Hayley fans are equal, but some are more equal than others". I am merely pointing this out - I am not casting aspersions, though it does admittedly get quite tiresome at times. The effect of this is probably a good thing for the forum overall as for much of this year I was probably averaging two posts a month  |
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Post by Libby on Sept 22, 2010 4:41:49 GMT
It would be nice if Hayley could sell as many albums here as Britney Spears did. Britney's music was very popular, but these days, music (so-called) isn't really what she's famous for anymore.
Regarding the paparazzi issue, even if Hayley were that popular, she'd have to do something in order to get herself in the tabloids. Does she even make it into the UK tabloids? I know they like to tell about her boyfriend (as much as they can), but that isn't the most exciting gossip anyone's ever read.
Even Josh Groban hasn't had that much press regarding his personal relationships, so I don't see why Hayley would. Josh Groban is fairly popular here, but he rarely gets chased around by paparazzi; or if he does, his photos rarely appear anywhere. The only time he was "caught" by paparazzi was when he was out walking his dog, Sweeney, with a fire hydrant "waste" container in hand. I'm afraid that's all the "dirt" they can come up with on him these days. :2fun:
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Post by milewalker on Sept 22, 2010 13:56:27 GMT
It would be nice if Hayley could sell as many albums here as Britney Spears did. Britney's music was very popular, but these days, music (so-called) isn't really what she's famous for anymore. Regarding the paparazzi issue, even if Hayley were that popular, she'd have to do something in order to get herself in the tabloids. Does she even make it into the UK tabloids? I know they like to tell about her boyfriend (as much as they can), but that isn't the most exciting gossip anyone's ever read. Even Josh Groban hasn't had that much press regarding his personal relationships, so I don't see why Hayley would. Josh Groban is fairly popular here, but he rarely gets chased around by paparazzi; or if he does, his photos rarely appear anywhere. The only time he was "caught" by paparazzi was when he was out walking his dog, Sweeney, with a fire hydrant "waste" container in hand. I'm afraid that's all the "https://i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gifirt" they can come up with on him these days.  I would be beyond ecstatic if Hayley merely sold records like Sarah Brightman used to here. |
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Post by Libby on Sept 22, 2010 18:41:29 GMT
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Post by martindn on Sept 22, 2010 21:57:15 GMT
Perhaps the thing which makes the concert descriptions by members most difficult merely reflects an aspect of human nature which is almost unavoidable. I find a certain sense of entitlement - particularly from the people in the UK. Hayley has been a part of your cultural lives for as long as she has been an international star, The effect of this is very much like looking at a small, insulate and exclusive club from the outside. The lack of geographical balance inevitably presents a situation where "all Hayley fans are equal, but some are more equal than others". I am merely pointing this out - I am not casting aspersions, though it does admittedly get quite tiresome at times. Well Jon, I'm sorry you feel like that. I would love Hayley to do more in the states to give her faithful American fans the chance to see her perform. The concert reports, photos and videos is all about trying to give those who cannot get to her concerts the next best thing. We take the trouble to write the reports, take photos and videos precisely beacause we want to try to include overseas fans, the very opposite of what you suggest. If I can't be at a concert, I enjoy reading about it and seeing the pictures, and I like the others here try to share our pleasure when we do get to a show with others who are not so fortunate. I hope that when she does perform in America (and I'm sure she will someday) her US fans will do the same so that we can share in their experience. Libby, I don't think Hayley would be very keen on having details of her private life plastered all over the media. She has never been one to court publicity, or do things that will get her name in the papers apart from her performances. And why should that be necessary anyway, she is a fabulous singer, why should the media and public expect any more from her? Martin D |
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Post by milewalker on Sept 22, 2010 22:56:36 GMT
As I said Martin D, I am not casting aspersions. The effect is nothing more - but also nothing less - than the simple fact that so many of you have a set of shared experiences that the rest of us do not share. My sense it that more often they are written for those of you who were not in attendance at a particular concert. The song set tonight was different in this respect and that respect from the last time she performed at such and such. Remember how the last time we were there it rained? This time she wore the same dress that you took a picture of at when and where. This was my 331st Hayley concert |
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Post by larryhauck on Sept 22, 2010 23:14:36 GMT
As I said Martin D, I am not casting aspersions. The effect is nothing more - but also nothing less - than the simple fact that so many of you have a set of shared experiences that the rest of us do not share. My sense it that more often they are written for those of you who were not in attendance at a particular concert. The song set tonight was different in this respect and that respect from the last time she performed at such and such. Remember how the last time we were there it rained? This time she wore the same dress that you took a picture of at when and where. This was my 331st Hayley concert Milewalker, your response answers the question of why the Brits don't understand the question; but it doesn't address the general question of why she isn't popular in the states. Larry |
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Post by larryhauck on Sept 22, 2010 23:36:53 GMT
Perhaps the thing which makes the concert descriptions by members most difficult merely reflects an aspect of human nature which is almost unavoidable. I find a certain sense of entitlement - particularly from the people in the UK. Hayley has been a part of your cultural lives for as long as she has been an international star, The effect of this is very much like looking at a small, insulate and exclusive club from the outside. The lack of geographical balance inevitably presents a situation where "all Hayley fans are equal, but some are more equal than others". I am merely pointing this out - I am not casting aspersions, though it does admittedly get quite tiresome at times. Well Jon, I'm sorry you feel like that. I would love Hayley to do more in the states to give her faithful American fans the chance to see her perform. The concert reports, photos and videos is all about trying to give those who cannot get to her concerts the next best thing. We take the trouble to write the reports, take photos and videos precisely beacause we want to try to include overseas fans, the very opposite of what you suggest. If I can't be at a concert, I enjoy reading about it and seeing the pictures, and I like the others here try to share our pleasure when we do get to a show with others who are not so fortunate. I hope that when she does perform in America (and I'm sure she will someday) her US fans will do the same so that we can share in their experience. Libby, I don't think Hayley would be very keen on having details of her private life plastered all over the media. She has never been one to court publicity, or do things that will get her name in the papers apart from her performances. And why should that be necessary anyway, she is a fabulous singer, why should the media and public expect any more from her? Martin D Martin, I agree with your comments. And I appreciate reading the concert reports and the great photos from all the members that attended the concerts. I don't interpret them as an elite that are fortunate to see Hayley in person. Hayley's in England and you get to see her more often. I'm glad for you. I have made several trips to the U K to see Hayley and met many of you. I certainly wish Hayley could come to the U S often ; but that's her and her management's choice not yours. The U S is a tough market for a classical crossover singer to break into. Just read the charts of American music and it's easy to figure out the tastes in music prevalent. Hayley would almost have to adopt a new style of music to break into the states. And that's Hayley's choice to make or not make. I'm just happy that she is anywhere that I can have access to her wonderful music. Be Well Larry |
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Post by romancoronado on Sept 23, 2010 0:12:17 GMT
Libby, I don't think Hayley would be very keen on having details of her private life plastered all over the media. She has never been one to court publicity, or do things that will get her name in the papers apart from her performances. And why should that be necessary anyway, she is a fabulous singer, why should the media and public expect any more from her? Martin D Because unfortunately that's how the media in America operates, especially the low level media such as the tabloids. There's a comedian here in American that quite honestly I have no idea how well known he is outside of America. His name is Jon Stewart and he has a satirical news show called The Daily Show with Jon Stewart where they pretty much make fun of anything the news reports on, primarily anything politically related. During a panel a question was thrown out there about how do they (the show) feel when a piece they were satirizing is picked up by network news as legitimate news. After the answer was given he went off on a tangent and said the following: "The media is a beast. The media now requires a caloric intake that it's never required before. That's why no matter what story you see in terms of expliotation of even tragedy...for instance the Daniel Van Dam case [2002 case of a 7yr old girl that was kidnapped and murdered by a 50yr old neighbor), if you look on their lawn (the family) it's a tent city of reporters. I don't know what insight they think they're going to glean from these people's grief but if there's ever a situation where someone who has lost their daughter has something else to say other than "this sucks", I'd be happy to see a news crew on their lawn. But until then, why are these people there? Unfortunately it's (the media) just a beast. And the beast just needs to be fed without any idea of why it's feeding itself" He was just referring to network news. The tabloids are much worse in terms of getting the story. |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Sept 23, 2010 0:29:05 GMT
Libby,
Yes, Hayley makes it into the UK tabloids, but only as part of general event coverage most of the time. I have seen the odd article about her here and there, but she isn't sufficiently interesting to most of the tabloids because she isn't in the habit of falling out of bars drunk or flashing her underwear.
***
A couple of years ago, I would not have honestly said Hayley was popular in the UK, where she resides, never mind the US (Which is a VERY hard market for any non-American to crack at the best of times!).
Recently, though, I think that is changing as Hayley is more involved with some high profile events and has the 'forces sweetheart' tag. That (And the performances she's done for/with the armed forces) seems to have pushed her more into the public eye.
I'm still not sure she'd qualify as a household name just yet, but her star is certainly in the ascendant, which is good to see.
***
As for why she's not popular in the US - let's be honest, it's a very hard slog for ANY non-American artist to become popular in the US, no matter how popular they are in the rest of the world. I think the US market is just very, very different and unless an artist understands how to play to that market, they'll come unstuck.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Sept 23, 2010 0:52:54 GMT
A few more thoughts on the US market vrs the British market:
In Britain, if you like an artists' music, chances are you aren't too fussed about much else. They might be 'in' at the moment, which will help if you're at school or college, but beyond that chances are you won't care much. It's unlikely to matter if you disagree with their politics, chances are you will neither know nor care what religion they have (If any) and the idea that who any artist is as a person should matter even slightly is one that will baffle you. Why should it, after all?
America seems (At least from this side of the Pond) to be the complete reverse. Americans seemingly buy into a whole package - person, personality, religion, image, everything! The music is often very much secondary to whether Americans approve of the person or whether they are good role models or not. This is why you see so many wide-eyed American teens earnestly telling various interviewers that they'd never dream of doing drugs or drink, let alone s-e-x! They're not selling music with all that, they're selling the idea that they are nice people to buy music from.
That idea is alien to Britain (And, I suspect, to most of the rest of the world, too) so British artists ignore the need to project a certain image that is expected of them in the field of music they are in. Because of this they cannot be conveniently boxed, and thus they fail to be popular.
Exactly how that relates to Hayley specifically, I cannot say. But I'd be surprised if I were all that far from the mark.
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They're there the whole weekend!
