Why isnt Hayley popular in the US?

[Jillian]

I don't know, Graeme... I mean, Hayley came here on a promotional visit to support 'Treasure'... I think that if Australia was set as a target, it would be well within her reach.

The media here is very uniform -- all the newspapers are interconnected (just look at http://www.news.com.au) and if you get onto the morning news shows 'Sunrise' or 'Today' you've effectively covered the entire country. Anyway...

[graemek]

Yes Jillian,
But Australia is a gigantic landmass.
the Treasure promotion was a couple of TV appearances in Sydney & Melbourne plus a free mini concert and signing session in a music/bookshop called Readings in Melbourne.
hwi.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Concert&action=display&thread=1024&page=1#21083
200 people came including me & we all loved her etc but that was it.

You're a student so you mix with a large number of young & youngish people....how many have you found that have even heard of her?

I asked the shop manager how Treasure was selling & he said quite well but wouldn't quote me numbers.

Australia has certainly got what most call "the tyranny of distance" and to boot a very low persons per sq. km. Must be ve very hard to allow for when making up some sort of marketing or tour strategy.

North America has the huge land mass but fairly evenly broken up by quite large cities not that far from each other.

And all the people love Country & Western.

Graeme

fixed link

[larryhauck]

Hey Graemek,

All the people do not love country and western in the U S. Many artists use country and western for a stepping stone. Thats only because the electronic media bombards the air ways with it.

Larry

[larryhauck]

Atlantie,
You don't want Hayley to be successful inn the U S. Please explain your reasoning..

Larry

[alantie]

Larry, of course I want Hayley to be a success in the US, just not a runaway success. It's just as Steve and Graeme were saying in the posts previous to my last one. Runaway successes for people at Hayley's age (or probably any age) tend to end up being short term (think Britney Spears, boy bands) and there's a ton of pressure on them to make money for their recording labels. As Steve said, people in those positions have a higher chance of burning out, something I'd never want to have for Hayley. Additionally, there's the added pressure of constantly being recognized and needing security guards to follow you around and the possibility of overly obsessed fans. I'm not sure that's the kind of life I would wish upon her.

Oh and Graeme, just for the record, I have many friends who absolutely hate country/western.

[Libby]

I feel like I've repeated this so many times before, but here goes again.

In order to tour here, Hayley does not need to be as famous as the biggest stars here. Think Enya, Sarah Brightman, etc. They don't live here, and still probably not everyone in the whole country knows who they are, but still they are able to tour here every so often. Enya's songs are played on the radio, so why couldn't Hayley's be? I suppose Enya started out in the late 80's, and yet I only heard of her around when LOTR came out (I heard of her before I heard May it Be, though). But I'd heard her Orinoco Flow years before that. Sarah Brightman was just here not too long ago, I think in December. Andrea Bocelli and Il Divo tour often, too. None of these stars are talked about in US tabloids, are not on TV shows that often, yet are still recognized enough to sell out large arenas or event centers. Hayley could appear in smaller theaters, like the one CW will be appearing at in my area soon.

Why can't she just tour here with someone again, like she did with Il Divo? Is that not an option anymore for some reason? Did that cost a lot of money, too? I thought it was the main artists' manager's duty to choose an opening act, not the smaller artist asking the bigger ones if they can be on their tour.

I think Decca did put in a lot of money for a while, like for the PBS special, and even just singing with Andrea Bocelli. Didn't Ross say that Gerald told him that Hayley had only just been able to pay off the first DVD, which is why she still hasn't made another one?

Hayley has appeared on quite a few shows in the U.S. in the past, so if that is supposed to help, why didn't it? I'll list everything I can think of:

Good Morning America
American Dreams
Macy's parade
Live from New Zealand
Hour of Power, 3 times
Katerina Witt's skating special, 2004
Kurt Browning's Gotta Skate, with Andrea Bocelli, 2005
Celtic Woman, aired numerous times on PBS
Capitol 4th 2008, PBS
Hayley's Dark Waltz on a popular US dance show
Hayley's Prayer on Skate for the Heart

That looks like a lot. Of course, it's really not that much, since it's all within 4-5 years.

Hayley certainly has far more exposure in the UK than here. What about all those articles about her shows and appearances? She was on the Classical Brits show, which is pretty big.

Some of you may have noticed my post about my letter to Peter Jackson, requesting that Hayley be chosen to sing for the soundtrack of one of the upcoming Hobbit movies, and none of you seemed too excited. Of course, they won't be out for a couple years, and it may not happen. However, the response I received was quite encouraging. The fact that Hayley is from NZ and has a beautiful voice make her the most logical choice. Who else would they choose? Enya and Annie Lennox each sang their songs on the Academy Awards, when their theme songs were nominated. Imagine if Hayley sang on the Academy Awards! And her song could be heard in movie theaters, not to mention on the soundtrack album!

[martindn]

Yes Steve, I think you are right and I respect you for saying it. I feel sorry for you and Hayley's other US fans, that they don't get to see much of her. According to Roger, she has a lot of fans over there, and they deserve the chance to see her live. Seeing her live is wonderful, and if you only know her from her records, I can say that they don't do her justice. Hayley live is one of the greatest musical experiences you can have. She is awesome!

I don't think though that playing small venues in places where she isn't known is the way forward. To reach a mass audience, she needs to use the mass media. But to do so she might have to sell her soul to Big Business, and I can well understand why she doesn't want to do that. She had a taste of it with CW, and I think decided it wasn't her. Hayley is her own woman, and that is something I for one respect enormously. Better to play to sell out concerts in the UK, NZ and Japan.

Martin

[chantelle]

May 9, 2009 20:26:46 GMT martindn said:

I don't think though that playing small venues in places where she isn't known is the way forward.
Martin

I don't know about that-- I think it depends on what direction you expect Hayley to go forward in!

I think there's this deep, underlying notion that Hayley is the sort of artist whose CD you give Mom or Grandma for Mother's Day. And that may be her best (ie, most profitable) market right now. But as others have pointed out, the success of songs such as Dark Waltz on YouTube prove that Hayley has a relatively untapped market in the teenagers and young adults.

I have long been an advocate of Hayley 'switching' to pop music. Still maintaining her own unique musical identity, of course-- pop music isn't defined solely by Kelly Clarkson and Britney Spears! But pop music nonetheless. And I guess whenever I thought of her as a 'pop star' it was never in that Top 40, commercial, corporate, "Big Business" sense-- I always envisioned her as sortof an underground star, appealing to one or two special niches here in the States. And please remember-- our population is large enough that a niche market here can be as big as the entire UK market!

And there is one niche market in particular that I think Hayley would thrive in-- we call them the "hipsters" or the "indie kids." These are people usually stereotyped by the following characteristics. They: are vegetarians and care about the environment, shun Starbucks in favor of their local coffee shop, are studying the arts in some form or another (very rarely interested in a 9-5 business job), are computer geeks (and discover much new music through the interenet!), consider themselves 'photographers'-- the camera is never fary away!, and most importantly their music tastes are very eccletic (Beethoven and Louis Armstrong and Lenny Kravtiz all on the same kid's iPod-- oh yes!) and esoteric. To be conclusive, these are young people that actually make a point of supporting relatively unknown or uncommercial (no big record deal / no big media hype) artists.
Which is why, I might add, I got so excited about the iTunes LIVE event-- it had that exact kind of hip, edgy, young vibe that Hayley could use greatly to her benefit. If that EP had been released it the States, I think it would have done very well!

Hayley's style of music is changing, we'll all agree. But whatever it changes to, I doubt it will ever be loud, driving 'fill the stadium' type music. So smaller venues suit her naturally. And there shouldn't be any problem with that-- there are plenty of people who would much rather see a 'local' (ie, someone they are familiar with on a small-scale, more intimate level) artist at a smaller venue than a 'Big Star' at a huge venue!

Now, there's always the catch, and here's this one: While pursuing the "21st Century Beatnik" market may not require the big marketing bucks, and certainly not the coporate sell-out (Hayley could still be Hayley!) it WOULD require a massive amount of time spent in the states, touring several smaller venues in smaller cities instead of hitting the 'high points' and rushing back home.

But we've essentially agreed that Hayley can't afford to spend that much time away from the UK right now, so to bring this officially back on topic, I guess that's why she "isn't popular in the US."

(Finally, apologies for any typos or unclear points-- I typed this in a hurry before leaving for church!)

[larryhauck]

Hi Martin,
I don't know if I agree that Hayley would have to sell her soul to the mass media; but I do agree with the small venue concept. I really love coming to the U K to see Hayley and I don't think I would enjoy her as much in a huge venue. The only problem I have is the expense. I've been to the U K and Ireland five times since December of 2007and I'm afraid to count up how much money I've spent. Not to mention the rigors of International travel.
I'd really like to see her in N Z but then I'd have to give up my trip to England and Ireland in December. I've seen her with the RTE orchestra twice and I really enjoy Hayley with a full orchestra.

Larry

[martindn]

Hi Larry,

I understand that Hayley is on record saying that she prefers to perform in smaller, more intimate venues. The trouble is we are self-interested, we love Hayley for who she is. As I have said before, I am still amazed that her concert tickets are affordable. And I too love to see her perform in small venues.

But perhaps for Hayley's talemnt to achieve the recognition that it deserves, she would have to embrace the mass media. For now she is just about the best kept secret in the whole music scene.

Martin

[Libby]

May 9, 2009 20:26:46 GMT martindn said:

I don't think though that playing small venues in places where she isn't known is the way forward. Better to play to sell out concerts in the UK, NZ and Japan.

Thanks a lot, Martin.

She's never going to get anywhere if she never comes at all. It's not going to help just to give up.

[graemek]

Hi Larry & Alantie,
Larry said:

Hey Graemek,
All the people do not love country and western in the U S. Many artists use country and western for a stepping stone. Thats only because the electronic media bombards the air ways with it.
Larry

Alantie said:

Oh and Graeme, just for the record, I have many friends who absolutely hate country/western. alantie

I just quoted that as an American stereotype
Of course its not all encompassing.....no stereotypes are.
My wife watches the Ellen Show & quite often she'll have C&W singers on her show....certainly not always.
I don't mind C & W myself on occasion, but I deliberately make sure I've heard everything possible that Hayley sings. I fall to pieces when I hear her voice.
Graeme

[alantie]

Hi Graeme, I was just joking with you. I didn't actually think that you believed that (the rollin' emoticon gave it away ). I'm pretty much like you: I don't mind country/western on occasion and I try to make sure that I've heard everything Hayley has ever sung.

As for concerts in the US, maybe there's a possibility she could target a particular portion of the US for a short tour instead of taking on the entire country. Still, while I don't know how the costs of a tour goes, I kind of suspect that the cost of even putting together a tour is so great, that it won't make economical sense for her just to do a short tour, especially if the turnout is uncertain.

[martindn]

I'm not sure why the length of the tour is important. If the support is there, it will be a success. After all, she flew to the states to sing one song last year, so I think she would do whatever was needed and would work. I think that she would need some heavy promotion over there though, to raise awareness of her existence, and that is what costs the money. Perhaps those whose money it is see it as a gamble, but you have to put you money where your mouth is. If you believe that Hayley can be successful in the US (and I for one do, her wonderful talent will carry her through, but it isn't my money), then you have to go for it.

There are a proportion of people who instantly love Hayley's voice on first hearing, and I and many of us here are among them. There must be a lot of such people in America too.

Martin

[postscript]

May 9, 2009 20:26:46 GMT martindn said:

Yes Steve, I think you are right and I respect you for saying it. I feel sorry for you and Hayley's other US fans, that they don't get to see much of her. According to Roger, she has a lot of fans over there, and they deserve the chance to see her live. Seeing her live is wonderful, and if you only know her from her records, I can say that they don't do her justice. Hayley live is one of the greatest musical experiences you can have. She is awesome!

I don't think though that playing small venues in places where she isn't known is the way forward. To reach a mass audience, she needs to use the mass media. But to do so she might have to sell her soul to Big Business, and I can well understand why she doesn't want to do that. She had a taste of it with CW, and I think decided it wasn't her. Hayley is her own woman, and that is something I for one respect enormously. Better to play to sell out concerts in the UK, NZ and Japan.

Martin

I had not intended to raise this point so early as I really wanted to experience another Hayley concert first but last night I attended a superb performance of Lohengrin of which the last act was particularly moving. It is a long time since I was at the Garden and I haven't been since the extension and refurbishment, so it was all a matter of relocating myself.

Several points were particularly noticeable.
1. Taking into account the last few concerts with Raven and her superb sound team there is absolutely no question that with Hayley we have the creme de la creme (sorry I'm not messing with accents, its a busy week!). She stands muster with the Royal Opera House Covent Garden for stage presentation quality. It emphasised that with the average price of a Hayley ticket a Hayley concert is without doubt very good value for money and means more people of a wider range of society in age and family status commitment can access her. To be accessible I am sure is important to her.

2. There is a difference between hearing via mikes and direct from the stage even if you are in the Gods but the moment you accept you are in one of the world's greatest opera houses, you know you are in another world and you accept that world's parameters. As Jose Carreras said, in effect, beyond a 3,000 audience even he needs mikes. The key is to ensure the quality of technicians Hayley acquired for RoD is always there. She must not go back from them.

3. I think, too, while she enjoys big occasions she also loves the intimacy of small theatres and that is where she will decide to go without a mike, when she is ready. I think she will ultimately but it will be a theatre she knows well, she won't do it on a whim on a tour, there are too many variables. I just hope I am there. May be this is the way to tour the US? Using small theatres across States in perhaps two or three reasonably extended small bites?

4. Last night also highlighted a contradiction within Hayley's presentation. She likes audience interaction yet I think there is a mixed feeling in her audience about this, which may be due to age. Some, like me, want to concentrate on her and her singing but perhaps we need to recognise her 'style' and be prepared to respond to it.

There is a part of me that could well have shouted out 'Yes, I do believe in Fairies' as the father of the children in TheRailway Children did when he had taken the family to see PeterPan . Mixing the two styles does not go well with me.

Last night there was no interrupting applause in 'section' gaps, possibly because the orchestra expertly covered by 'carrying notes over' to discourage. The auditorium was like a recording studio. A non-echoing silence of an audience in total concentration on the players on stage and in the pit. Complete absorption, apart from odd half-stifled coughs. No sweet wrappers being undone or straw-drinks slurped.

This is a different world but in terms of performance quality I felt no great contrast. Comparing with the RoD show and what she delivered in Bath last year, Hayley and Raven really are up there with the best of them and this is a House accustomed to hearing the best in the world.

As a side note, for anyone less familiar with opera (or wanting to 'give it a go'--but do choose your opera carefully), tickets can be obtained for a Hayley concert price. I've taken a 'restricted view' in the Gods for Wednesday night's performance of Giselle at only £20, one of the last 20 seats in the House (though one or two of those were three figure sums!). Dress astounded me. Shirt-sleeves and jeans are nowadays acceptable and in many ways the Opera House seems to have taken on the US attitude that 'occasion' is a matter of personal choice and circumstances, not a requirement to be at the Opera House. People are definitely wanted there for their love of the performance, not their style of dress.

What was interesting from my angle was how steeply raked is the Opera House stage. Is this so for The Palladium and Theatre Royal stages, or because of the machinery available to move floor sections which presumably need to be flat, the technique of raking (so those at the back remain visible to the Stalls) has been abandoned?

Peter S.