What if Hayley had stayed in School

[milewalker]

Sept 22, 2008 15:34:40 GMT stevemacdonald said:

This is a no-brainer. If Hayley had stayed in school she would have gone to a music conservatory and developed into a stage or opera singer and made a huge splash someday on Broadway or La Scala.

You see, she was destined for an international career. The best and the brightest of New Zealand typically outgrow that market and move to a bigger world like Australia, the UK or the USA. Hayley would have stood out just as remarkably after full schooling and made her mark just as assuredly.

Bottom line: Water seeks its own level.

Hi Steve,

I almost made a milder version of this point above, because I think the probability does lie in that direction. Her talent is enormous, and NZ is very small. But I didnt because of one doubt. Being perceived as a child star only helped her a little in the UK, and possibly did nothing for her in the US. But it did jump start her career in NZ, and probably led directly to her international contract.

Dame Kiri has an international name of sorts, but how many people outside of NZ and the relatively limited world of opera know much more about her than a mid level familiar name. Dame Malvina has left even less of a mark. I would say that Hayley in some way was probably going to be able to support herself by singing. How big of a star she would have become going down that path seems to me to be open to some question.

As an aside Steven, Mayim Bialik was almost the prototype child star who was going to have virtually no chance at an adult career regardless of what she did. In her case, having obvious brains, she went the way which was right for her.

------------

As an aside, one thing I have often wondered is how the UK GCSE or its commonwealth analogues actually compares to a high school diploma in the US. The GCSE is usually sat at 16-17 I believe - a high school graduate in the US is usually 18 - though occasionally younger or older. That seems to imply that our students attend a year or two more schooling than is the case elsewhere. On the other hand, the US educational system features something called a GED - a General Equivalency Diploma - which is an exam taken by people who for whatever reason didnt finish high school through the conventional route.

[martindn]

It would be very brave of Hayley to strike out in a new direction. She has been a singer now for 15 years, since she was six, for nearly three-quarters of her life. I have been an engineer for a two-thirds of my life, OK, it is three times as long as Hayley's. But despite that, I would never do anything else except as a hobby.
I just can't imagine Hayley being anything except a singer, unless it is a wife and a mother, I know she would be good at that. I would think that love is the one thing that might persuade Hayley to give it all up. But she needs to find the right man and I hope she does, but not too soon, I love her music too much, and want her to keep performing in the UK for as long as possible.
As for academia, I can't see it. Hayley doesn't need it. Some do, some don't. I don't believe Hayley will ever do it, although she might encourage her own children in that direction, if it is right for them.

Martin

[larryhauck]

Hi Martin,
No offense intended; but aren't you being a bit presumptuous about what Hayley should or shouldn't do.

Larry

[larryhauck]

Hi Stewart,

I agree with you to a point. I find it difficult to pigeon hole people into specific categories.
If one has the desire and the passion to pursue their goals then that is what they should do.
I have spent many years in the university and obtained many degrees; but I'd trade them all to have half the talent that Hayley possesses.

Larry

[larryhauck]

Fusilier23,

And your point is?

Larry

[milewalker]

Hi Martin,

Here is a quote from "The Hub" interview found on the Media thread. Hayley had just been asked if she had any advice for would be young singers.

"If singing is your passion, and thats really what you want to do, you'll be singing every day and you'll be focusing on that goal just getting to where its your career. I worked really hard on what I was doing, but a bit of luck does come into it, and even if you get a record contract, that doesnt automatically mean your going to have a career for the rest of your life as a singer. You know you could not work out and you could be dropped by your label, so have a backup as well, dont be just like "Im going to be a singer, you know, make sure that you are at school and youre doing all your subjects. I did all my - I did my math and I did my sciences. Cover your bases."

I may be speculating unwisely here - but I doubt very much that Hayley has been successful enough that she is set for life if something happened to her career tomorrow. I was thinking of this quote when I extended my "caveat" above. Your comments are based on the assumption that she will be singing her entire life -but they are only valid to the extent that the assuption is true.

Jon

[fusilier23]

My points are many Larry, if you read them. BTW, Martin's just giving his opinion, and I think it's up to the mods to call him presumptuous and lay down the law.

[stevemacdonald]

Sept 23, 2008 1:12:10 GMT @larryhauck said:

Hi Martin,

... aren't you being a bit presumptuous about what Hayley should or shouldn't do.

Sept 23, 2008 3:09:52 GMT fusilier23 said:

My points are many Larry, if you read them. BTW, Martin's just giving his opinion, and I think it's up to the mods to call him presumptuous and lay down the law.

Heh, if Hayley had remained in school no one would be putting anyone in their place in here.

But nonetheless, her music is so uplifting and renewing that we should all be playing Hayley in the background when we visit this forum. I started to and my posts got significantly less confrontational. Try it!

[Joe]

Well said, Steve. Sounds like a good idea...turn up the music!

Let's not judge opinions too heavily, folks.

[stuartj]

Sept 22, 2008 19:03:06 GMT milewalker said:

As an aside, one thing I have often wondered is how the UK GCSE or its commonwealth analogues actually compares to a high school diploma in the US. The GCSE is usually sat at 16-17 I believe - a high school graduate in the US is usually 18 - though occasionally younger or older. That seems to imply that our students attend a year or two more schooling than is the case elsewhere. On the other hand, the US educational system features something called a GED - a General Equivalency Diploma - which is an exam taken by people who for whatever reason didnt finish high school through the conventional route.

Hi Jon,

There was a time when the British C levels were similar to New Zealand School Certificate, and the British A levels a bit higher than the NZ University Entrance exam. Given she was doing them while carrying on an international singing career, Hayley's qualifications are sensible, but not spectacular. She has done the right thing by doing maths and science (I have my cast-codplate and flak helmet on at the moment) because employers and other educational institutions see it as something that can't be done at higher levels if you don't already have some background, and proof that you can cope in the computer/Internet age.

I believe Hayley is safe even if her musical career collapsed tomorrow. I don't doubt that she could be a good wife and mother, but I don't see that as her next choice -- not while she is this young. Her comments about the flat she bought being "a good investment" (when her parents thought it was horribly expensive) and one or two other things have made me wonder whether she isn't attempting to get as financially secure as the can be as soon as possible, in case of the musical career deteriorating. I have even wondered whether, when she's about 25 - 30, if Unicef or some similar agency offered her a very good job, whether she may not volutarily put the music career aside.

Probably not, but I think she is capable of getting many high-level jobs, as a representative or whatever. Many people may have much higher academic qualifications than Hayley does, but couldn't get the jobs she could because they don't have the personality, drive, or energy.

Look at the ways in which she is already being used to promote and represent different events and charities. Apart from the Unicef position, she has some position with classic FM I think -- is collecting charity money for them. She is being used to promote and do speeches for the Music on Fire event; she is a matron of some environmental organisation; she has just been made a patron of the Royal New Zealand Air Force, joining Diana Lady Issac and Air Marshal Sir Richard Bolt (august company for a 21-year-old pop singer).

Of course being a famous singer helped her get some of these positions, but she needed more beside that, and I think she has the drive, energy, and focus to do well outside of music.

[loveyou]

Sept 23, 2008 6:45:55 GMT stuartj said:

Sept 22, 2008 19:03:06 GMT milewalker said:

I believe Hayley is safe even if her musical career collapsed tomorrow. I don't doubt that she could be a good wife and mother, but I don't see that as her next choice -- not while she is this young. Her comments about the flat she bought being "a good investment" (when her parents thought it was horribly expensive) and one or two other things have made me wonder whether she isn't attempting to get as financially secure as the can be as soon as possible, in case of the musical career deteriorating. I have even wondered whether, when she's about 25 - 30, if Unicef or some similar agency offered her a very good job, whether she may not volutarily put the music career aside.

Probably not, but I think she is capable of getting many high-level jobs, as a representative or whatever. Many people may have much higher academic qualifications than Hayley does, but couldn't get the jobs she could because they don't have the personality, drive, or energy.

Look at the ways in which she is already being used to promote and represent different events and charities. Apart from the Unicef position, she has some position with classic FM I think -- is collecting charity money for them. She is being used to promote and do speeches for the Music on Fire event; she is a matron of some environmental organisation; she has just been made a patron of the Royal New Zealand Air Force, joining Diana Lady Issac and Air Marshal Sir Richard Bolt (august company for a 21-year-old pop singer).

Of course being a famous singer helped her get some of these positions, but she needed more beside that, and I think she has the drive, energy, and focus to do well outside of music.

Mr.or Mrs stuartj, would you like own up if you are that Dame Kiri who signed in this forum anonymously?

[larryhauck]

My comments were not meant to be confrontational.Just an opinion.

Larry

[martindn]

Hi Larry,

No offence taken! I was just speculating, based on what I know about Hayley. I would not presume to tell her what she should do, that is entirely up to her.
I think Stuart is right too, if Hayley set her heart on something else, she has the drive to achieve a lot. But I have always felt that Hayley loves what she does, and would not give up singing unless it was forced upon her. And perhaps not even then, depending upon why, she might still be singing somewhere even if, heaven forbid, her career went pear-shaped..
A second "backup" career is not a bad idea, but I don't think Hayley has had time to develop one, unless it is as a celebrity. Remember, some celebrities seem to be have no discernible talent, and are famous just for being famous. I'm sure Hayley could do better than that.
As well as a singer, Hayley has in her time been a dancer, and a model. She could also be a news correspondent, judging by today's dispatch from Ghana. Perhaps even an actress with the right training. If she couldn't sing, it wouldn't surprise me to see her choose another career in the public eye. Can you imagine her, for instance, as a judge in a TV talent show? She has plenty of experience of such things after all!

Martin

[martindn]

Actually, looking at the video from Ghana, she really does seem to have a great rapport with children. I could see her making a good teacher, maybe a music teacher.

Martin

[Katie]

If Hayley did go back to school, I doubt she would ever give up her career.She wouldn't go all this far and just give it up.What do you think?

Take care,

Katie