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Post by fusilier23 on Sept 21, 2008 13:00:26 GMT
Who says Hayley won't go back to school later in life? She really doesn't need it at the moment, but even the most succesful sometimes go back to complete their education, i.e. Steven Spielberg, or go quite high, like former child actress Mayim Bialik, who's now a Ph.D. in math.
I have never met anyone super-successful who stopped school early in life, BUT by the time I was 14 I was in a school where everyone was assumed to be preparing for college. I also entered a profession where you have to reach the graduate level. Since then I've run into a few of the folks from my hometown who didn't get further education beyond high school, or who dropped out. The only ones who did ok were two guys who became police officers, and both of them went back to school nights now. One guy's a mechanic still working for someone else who comes home with grease all over his hands, another's operating a forklift in a warehouse, yet another's delivering other people's packages, and I had to sneer inwardly one day when this guy, who was something of a bully in school, delivered me expensive collectibles he could probably neither afford nor appreciate. As for the women who gave up the ghost, a few are waiting tables or watching other people's kids, a good number simply married the aforementioned low-level guys and are living month to month struggling to pay the bills, others divorced them and are struggling even harder.
Even if Hayley's career hadn't taken off, though, she had parents who would have made sure she kept on going in school and kept to the right path. That's really what's important.
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Post by Richard on Sept 21, 2008 15:53:30 GMT
It would appear that Hayley's music has been responsible for a lot of us becoming more computer literate. Thank you for dragging me kicking and screaming into the 21st Century. Hello Comet and everybody!  If I hadn't discovered Hayley I might never have known about the XVID codec. I'm learning something new every day once in a while! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gifRichard  |
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Post by milewalker on Sept 21, 2008 17:56:57 GMT
Hi Fusilier and all, I would caution you against being judgemental, Steven. As my car is currently in the shop I have cause to belive for the moment that we need mechanics just as much as we need lawyers  Having said this, you do have a valid point. Speaking from actuarial data, the correlation between ones level of education and those things in life which most of us would consider as successful is quite striking. In the US for example, a 40 year old high school dropout is more than 20 times more likely than a college grad to have spent some time in prison. This being said, one of the primary functions of education is that is simply provides a system wherein one might develop ones talents to the point where they become useful enough to be able to exploit whatever opportunites come around in adult life. Hayley's ability to sing was of such a magnitude that it is difficult to imagine any future oppurtunity to exploit which was as great as the one she was actually presented with at age 13. One other thing which seems rather unusual in Hayley's case is that the actual education she did receive was never emphasized in her early press. We knew what high school she was going to for example - but there was only a brief mention of her sitting for exams, and never a mention of her grades. Some have said that this was considered private by the Westenra's, but I rather suspect that it simply means that the emphasis was never on Hayley's performance in school. In other words, there was never a question that she wanted to be anything other than a singer. There was also in retrospect surprisingly little emphasis on how "normal" she was. All of this supports something Roger said above. I would be very surprised if this situation ever presented itself to the Westenra's in terms of a decision they had to make. I do think that there were some differences between Hayley and her siblings which are probably better not to get into here....except to say that Hayley might have been close to being an actual "prodigy" - loosely defined as a child who has an adult-level capability. As far as the other topic of this thread is concerned, I like music. I like crossover particularly, and I love Hayley's voice. But I suspect that in some ways I am not as emotionally invested as many of you are - and therefore she has not had the same kind of effect on my life. I spent about 10 years of my life listening to very little music - if anyone reopened my eyes to its potential, it was Charlotte Church, and that only happened because she became popular enough in the US to hit my radar. If it werent for Charlotte I might not have even heard of Hayley. Jon |
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Post by I-H-F on Sept 21, 2008 18:42:19 GMT
I agree Jon.
I think there is too much emphasis put on school leavers to gain a career which offers a high salary, rather than finding a career that they are actually interested in, and will enjoy doing.
One member in particular seems to look down at those who deliver mail, repair cars or drives a forklift, but maybe these people actually enjoy their job. Just because someone doesn't earn as much, doesn't mean they are less of a person than a lawyer, doctor, teacher etc. Also, even if someone has a high salary, doesn't mean they enjoy what they do. People's lives shouldn't be assessed on their career. It is other more important aspects that are really important.
Sometimes, people return to education for various reasons. Some people find a new interest and decide to change career. Some people are forced to change career due to an illness or injury.
Hayley may well indeed return to education. Although maybe not, if she is really enjoying what she does.
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Post by larryhauck on Sept 21, 2008 21:04:09 GMT
I didn't start college until I was 29years old. I was married and had one child. I spent my time after high school in the U S Navy.
I wouldn't do it any other way. I was much more prepared and mature enough to handle the rigors of college.
In Hayley's case she is sharing her wonderful gift with the world. At age 21 I think she has ample time to pursue higher education should she choose.
When God blesses someone with the talent Hayley has I think she is doing the right thing at this time.
Larry
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Post by fusilier23 on Sept 22, 2008 2:34:02 GMT
Many's the soldier, sailor, or airman who went to college on the GI Bill, and most of them were more prepared for college, after all, after fighting for your life fighting for grades might appear easy, or at least easier.
Yes, I can be judgmental, and perhaps some of it is that the people I mention are people I did not like earlier in life. We need mechanics as much as lawyers, that is definitely true, but not slacker mechanics who are always smoking and joking and have no desire to get ahead in life. That's really my main problem.
Early in life the story about the king and the fireman taught me that it takes all kinds to make a world, and I believe that. However, each of us has a level of ability, and if we don't work up to it, that's kind of a smack in the face to Him who gave it to us and our families who supported us. You need to have ambition and a desire to better yourself as well as enjoy your career. In fact I'm thinking of starting to look after three years here, since I think I might have hit a plateau. Too many of these people I mentioned had no ambition beyond next weekend. THAT'S what I look down on.
That said, and coming back to Hayley, no one will ever accuse her of NOT having ambition and not trying to work up to her potential. If anything she's probably worked beyond her potential with the constant touring and constant learning of new material, not to mention the repeated tries to break the American market which have met with only moderate success. For that alone she deserves praise.
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Joe
Administrator
Supporting Hayley since 2003!
Posts: 6,715 
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Post by Joe on Sept 22, 2008 2:40:08 GMT
Hi all,
I agree with what has been said. It was the right choice for Hayley at the right time.
I don't know what subject Hayley excelled in at school or what she enjoys in her spare time (let's not dwell on these) but Hayley would, I feel, be a marvel at social service work.
Joe
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Post by fusilier23 on Sept 22, 2008 3:38:01 GMT
Hayley wisely didn't put her grades on public display. For whatever reason Charlotte did, and she actually did quite well, though her actions do not bespeak the mentality or morality of an A student.
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Post by comet on Sept 22, 2008 9:53:34 GMT
ah yes ! ancient papyrus documents found in earthen ware jars !  |
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Post by comet on Sept 22, 2008 14:11:13 GMT
If Hayley had stayed in school, I would not be on this forum typing this message. This thread has certainly gone in some unexpected directions, A bit like fireworks, who knows where the sparks will land and ignite another debate, but that is what makes this forum and all those who contribute to it so interesting. So many of us come from different cultures and very different economic backgrounds, with very different levels of education and also different expectations from life. Some of us are older and have experience and some of us are young and have ambition. All unified by our admiration of Hayley's voice, music and her dignified and charming personality. Sometimes I suspect, for some of us Hayley's music may be the only thing we have in common. Some of us have that "Wicked sense of humour" that makes it so easy and tempting to provoke or tease other members. I have had to resist this temptation many times So Question : what is black and brown and always looks good on a lawyer ? Answer : A Doberman pincher. I know Steve you will not be offended by this and will take it in good humour On the subject of people and their chosen careers, the word CONTENTMENT always comes to my mind. If a person is content with their career I see no reason for them to be cajoled by society or others around them into being or doing something that would or could remove that sense of contentment. Some of the most contented people I know are craftsmen (Or crafts people to be PC) people who make things including music, furniture, pottery, paintings, things that are real and useful, people who are proud of the work they do and know they are good at it, This knowledge brings them contentment. Their only ambition is to know their craft better to always try new methods and not dismiss new ideas without a fair trial. Many of these people may never become wealthy, but they have something far more valuable: Contentment at their own self worth. In the end the only person you HAVE to live with is yourself and if you have contentment there, then you have a Treasure beyond wealth and material possessions. I hope that Hayley has this sense of contentment at her craft, to watch her at sound check going over the smallest details to achieve perfection in the performance is just amazing, making the smallest change in the phrasing of a song she has done a hundred times and checking that it works, and checking again ! |
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Post by stevemacdonald on Sept 22, 2008 15:34:40 GMT
This is a no-brainer. If Hayley had stayed in school she would have gone to a music conservatory and developed into a stage or opera singer and made a huge splash someday on Broadway or La Scala.
You see, she was destined for an international career. The best and the brightest of New Zealand typically outgrow that market and move to a bigger world like Australia, the UK or the USA. Hayley would have stood out just as remarkably after full schooling and made her mark just as assuredly.
Bottom line: Water seeks its own level.
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Post by fusilier23 on Sept 22, 2008 15:47:11 GMT
I see your point, but, it's been my experience that if you get too content or too comfortable, laziness and corruption frequently follow, and that's on a personal level all the way up to a national level. You have to be striving for something always, even if it is just new ideas in one craft. In fact I heartily applaud craftsmen who try to find new ideas in their craft, which sometimes work to the betterment of all. This world would be nowhere without people like Elias Howe or Alexander Graham Bell or Thomas Edison, or how about Andrew Carnegie, who literally started with NOTHING? But all of these people had ambition to do something at least. As I said, my main problem is with sloth. I dislike people who never get beyond indulging their desires for pleasure, and I strongly dislike those who squander their talent. That's partly what led me here from my Charlotte Church fan days. When both of them are gone and the history is written, you mark my words, it will say Hayley found her limits and tried to stretch them, while Charlotte achieved to a point, decided she didn't need to achieve any more, and fell into a life of debauch and unrealized potential. Oh, and I won't take offense to the lawyer joke if you can accept this little bit of wit : Why are there so few Irish lawyers? They can never pass the bar. i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif |
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Post by comet on Sept 22, 2008 18:07:37 GMT
Andrew Carnegie, who literally started with NOTHING? Oh, and I won't take offense to the lawyer joke if you can accept this little bit of wit : Why are there so few Irish lawyers? They can never pass the bar. i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gifhic ! none taken..........hic est. were Dale and Andrew Carnegie related or am I just drunk and confused ? A new film has just been released playing on the title How to win friends and influence people. goes something like How to lose friends and alienate people ! |
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Post by fusilier23 on Sept 22, 2008 18:19:40 GMT
Speaking as half-Irish, I can also (hic!) see your point (stagger).
That said (hic!) I don' (hic!) thin those two were related...
Shomething about a flim.... uuugh (crash!)
In the meantime I'll just go bandage this dog-bite wound...
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Post by Stuart H on Sept 22, 2008 18:32:02 GMT
Luckily for Hayley, and everybody else in developed countries, there is a culture of lifelong learning and we have moved away from the more traditional model of school-university-work. Now many people do things in a variety of orders, take gap years, take time to see the world etc. Im sure many of Hayley's friends have done things in their own way. She's simply following a career at present, I know Hayley values education highly and wants to return to some kind of study in the future.
Stuart
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