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Post by comet on Sept 19, 2008 11:54:15 GMT
I have been meaning to start this thread for a long time. (Looking for a good title)
Most parents want the best for their children and have to make decisions based on the conditions at the time, few of us have the luxury of previous experience and are left to do the best we can, with the knowledge we have at any given time to make major decisions that will have a long lasting effect for our children.
Raising our children and educating them to make this world a better place is probably the single most important thing we will do in our lives.
I often wonder at the anguish and sleepless nights this decision must have caused Hayley's parents, when they were deciding whether to go ahead with Hayley's musical career or just keep her in school and make sure she had a good education that would guarantee her a secure job and future.
I would not have liked to have been in their shoes for that one, As we all know the music industry is like shark infested waters leaving many casualties, ruined careers and destroyed lives.
I suppose I am trying to say ; I for one am grateful for the decision they did make, It must have been horribly difficult.
Their decision way back then has changed all our lives to one degree or another,
The people we have met and the places and countries to which we have gone to.
The ripple effect has been enormous and mostly for the better for most of us and UNICEF and WEN and so many other things..........
Just amazing.....................
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Post by Richard on Sept 19, 2008 13:54:48 GMT
This is an interesting topic, Comet!  My reply is going to be very short. I'm convinced Hayley's powers of persuasion would have helped Jill and Gerald to make their decision.  Best Wishes, Richard  |
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Post by comet on Sept 19, 2008 15:23:10 GMT
This is an interesting topic, Comet! My reply is going to be very short. I'm convinced Hayley's powers of persuasion would have helped Jill and Gerald to make their decision. Best Wishes, Richard Thanks Richard, I would hate to be the one saying NO to Hayley or denying her something she so wholeheartedly desired . In the face of Hayley's blatantly obvious talent and her powers of persuasion it probably made it all the MORE difficult. Sometimes a parent or guardian's duty is to overrule the child's desire or to make a sensible decision. And there is the underlying desire of parents to protect their children from the world and to allow them to have their childhood without being encumbered by the "seriousness of the adult world" |
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Post by stevemacdonald on Sept 19, 2008 16:26:11 GMT
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Post by Tin on Sept 19, 2008 17:06:03 GMT
I know I sound like some bad company but I'm *really* glad that Hayley hadn't stayed in school (I know many of you think the same- admit it)! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif I daren't imagine how dull my life would have become had Hayley really given up to pursue a music career. Tin  |
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Post by milewalker on Sept 19, 2008 17:40:32 GMT
Hello all,
Back in the days I was studying psychology in college, one of the things I focused on was the phemonenon of "prodigy" - its effects on the person and on how that person was raised. Hayley probably falls just short of that description, but I suspect many of the same rules apply. I am pleased to note that Hayley and her family managed to avoid almost all of the pitfalls, while maximizing the growth of Hayley's gift.
One thing to keep in mind however, is that you probably cant get into the mind of the Westenra's regarding Hayley unless you have raised a child like Hayley. The way her path evolved, I dont think that the actual decision to allow Hayley to become a professional singer was really all that difficult for them, because it never was one big decision. It was a logical progression of many smaller decisions. Her teachers identified music ability very early, so they encouraged her to develop it. By the time she was 12 she was already very close to being a professional level singer - so a demo was made. When the demo produced demand. it was released more widely. This in turn resulted in a contract offer from Universal New Zealand. When she hit it big in NZ, it resulted in an internationall offer. Success at each step meant that the logical choice was always to go on to the next step.
Interestingly, I never heard of any talk of a trust fund for Hayley's earnings. I never once heard Jill referred to as a "stage mother". Her parents proviided some management for her during the transition - but quite obviously kept it to a minimum. When you add all of this up, it seems to me that Hayley has actually been calling the shots herself to a large degree right from the beginning (as far as her family is concerned) and I think this is manifestation of both her amazing talent so young, and the general maturity on display at the time each of these smaller decisions was made as well.
The biggest issue of all for the Westenra's might have merely been sadness that she left them so quickly. I see nothing in the stories we have of Hayley's upbringing which suggests that her parents were doing a lot more than providing stabilty, encouragement and support, all the while trying to stay out of the way as much as they possibly could.
Jon
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Post by grant on Sept 19, 2008 17:59:40 GMT
Hi Jon and everyone
A very concise and, I feel, pretty accurate, description of events. I have only ever felt, from what I've read and/or heard, that the family (and I include Sopie and Isaac here) have always given their full and heartfelt support to Hayley as her career took off.
Yes, I'm sure they all miss having her around as she jets around the world, but I think there would be a lot of mixed feelings now, if they had somehow managed to keep Hayley in New Zealand and she had ended up teaching music or doing some other mundane job.
They are an amazing family and have given us (and the world) the greatest gift imaginable in Hayley.
God bless them all!!
Grant
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Post by comet on Sept 19, 2008 19:25:47 GMT
Sorry Steve, didn't mean to THREAD on your toes  I see I also made a post in your thread. I forget very quickly, as I said I was looking for a suitable title, I believe now I may have got it wrong. ( I think I'll have to think it out again ) as the fiddler said. The intention is more about the effect it has had on all of us, This Forum, the orchestras and all who have performed with Hayley, all the people who are employed directly or indirectly because of Hayley's successful singing career. Many of the people I know who have their own businesses and are quite successful left school in their teenage years, some out of necessity and some who were just SURE at a very young age about the path they would take in life. A few of them can still barely read and write but they are the smartest and most shrewd businessmen I have ever come across. Education may well have stopped these people from becoming successful, putting the fear of economics, legalities and other pitfalls in their way. |
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Post by martindn on Sept 19, 2008 22:32:31 GMT
Hi All,
Hayley has a wonderful gift. As a Christian I believe it is from God. And like all God's best gifts, it is of no use unless it is shared with others.
Hayley was born to sing, I am absolutely sure of that. It is what she is good at, and what she wants to do. I think that whatever else she may or may not have been able to achieve in any other career, following her heart's desire has to be the right way for her to go. It is a wonderful thing that she had parents who understood that and supported her in what she wanted to do. They understood that Hayley's happiness is more important than academic achievement.
And as for us, her fans, which one of us doubts that she did the right thing? For myself, she has enriched my life immensely. I know from my discussions with other fans, here, elsewhere and personally that I am far from alone in that. So many people say that there has never been a singer like Hayley.
In the end success is not about money, not about qualifications, not even about fame. It is about being comfortable with what you do and the way you live your life. Hayley is doing what she wants to do and it thoroughly enjoying it. You can't ask for more than that.
Martin
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Post by milewalker on Sept 19, 2008 23:25:05 GMT
Hi Martin, For obvious reasons, I am not going to debate with you over the origin of Hayley's gift  This being said, I agree with most of what you said with one caveat. Hayley is 21 years old, and I think at times we both overestimate or underestimate the impact of that depending on the context in which we are discussing it. In this particular case a number of people who are around Hayley's age really still dont know who they are, or a situation in their lives may be subject to a profound change. For example, when I was around Hayley's age, my father had a debilitating stroke and I had to assume a fair amount of family responsibility rather suddenly. The effect of this was that my aim - which was to be an academic btw - had to change, and I had to acquire a marketable skill very quickly. I cobbled together bits and pieces of several things, and discovered that I could get a degree in business with a minor in accounting in an additional six months. Sorry for the ramble, but the point I am trying to make is that I think it is too soon to simply assume that Hayley is completely set in life the way she wants it to be, Something might change to require it, or Hayley might decide at age 25 or something that she wants to do something different.. I dont doubt that Hayley made the right decision - but I do caution against the perception that she is 40, even though she does act like it much of the time Jon I |
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Post by roger on Sept 20, 2008 2:42:35 GMT
Hi Comet and everyone, This discussion has the potential to become vast and complex and, arguably, could be divided into two separate threads! I often wonder at the anguish and sleepless nights this decision must have caused Hayley's parents, when they were deciding whether to go ahead with Hayley's musical career or just keep her in school and make sure she had a good education that would guarantee her a secure job and future. I suspect there will have been much anguish and a lot of sleepless nights but I doubt if they were quite for the reasons stated. Jill and Gerald have said publicly on numerous occasions that they always tried to enable Hayley (and Sophie and Isaac) to experience many possibly pursuits – singing, learning to play an instrument, dancing, sport, and many other things. They were always encouraging and supportive but never pushy. I therefore suspect their question was not “Shall we allow Hayley to pursue her musical career” but “ how can we help her to pursue it”. The biggest issue of all for the Westenra's might have merely been sadness that she left them so quickly. Naturally, it must have been hard for them all but it may not have been quite as hard as you might expect. Sophie once told me that, when Hayley began touring, it was only within New Zealand and never for very long at a time. “We therefore got used to it gradually”, she concluded. I thought that was a remarkably mature attitude because Sophie was only thirteen when she said it. But this thread also asks how Hayley’s leaving school to pursue her musical career has affected all of us. Okay, here are a few initial thoughts (there are probably more!)… 1. I would not be spending most of my spare time running HWI! I have no idea what I would be doing instead but it is likely to include a return to some of my earlier interests. Come to think of it, I didn't even have a computer when I first heard Hayley's voice. I asked a work colleague if he could Google her. The next day he gave me a print-out of a biography he had found on some funny little website called Hayley Westenra International! Within days, he lent me a spare computer, I was immediately hooked and bought my own. 2. Through my involvement with this forum, I have been introduced to may other singers and a few instrumentalists. Okay, I would probably have stumbled upon some of them eventually but I am sure there are some who I would never have known. Every one of them has brought me many hours of pleasure whilst listening to their music and, in many cases, seeing them live. 3. I have learned to love a few songs which I previously disliked until Hayley recorded them. These include Bach’s and Schubert’s ‘Ave Maria’, ‘The Water Is Wide’ (despite my love of folk music) and ‘Wuthering heights’, all of which are now among my favourites. 4. I have made many friends here – including some whom I have never met. 5. Do I really want to say Number 5? It is really too personal to go into detail but I will give you one essential piece of the background and then the bottom line. It does not fall into the “ripple effect” category though – this has tidal wave proportions… Having been adopted at birth, I discovered only three years ago that I have a sister. I have never met her and it seems almost certain now that I never will but at least I know she is out there somewhere. The impact of that discovery is beyond description. “But what has this to do with this topic?” I hear you cry! Well, I’ll tell you. If it wasn’t for Hayley, I never would have known. Beat that! Roger |
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Post by grant on Sept 20, 2008 9:53:33 GMT
Hi Roger, Comet and everyone
I am really enjoying this thread. Particularly because it gives us the opportunity to include the very significant relevance of Hayley's family here on the forum, as well as encouraging some heartfelt and emotive thoughts from members.
Your story is quite amazing Roger and Martin, there has never been any doubt in my mind that everything about Hayley and her wonderful family is a gift from God.
Best wishes
Grant
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Post by Mark on Sept 20, 2008 20:26:57 GMT
Many of the people I know who have their own businesses and are quite successful left school in their teenage years, some out of necessity and some who were just SURE at a very young age about the path they would take in life. A few of them can still barely read and write but they are the smartest and most shrewd businessmen I have ever come across. Education may well have stopped these people from becoming successful, putting the fear of economics, legalities and other pitfalls in their way. Hi Paul I couldn't agree with you more - I do feel that these days alot of young people go down the further education/university route, because they are led to believe that is what you should do and its not for everybody. In my opinion, a good number would be better off leaving school at 16 or 18 and finding their own way . I am speaking as someone who did just that - left school at age 16 and by age 21 had my first business. By 23, I had two businesses and employed 15 staff. I am sure that if I had gone on to further education, I would have lost my way - it certainly wouldn't have helped me, I'm sure of that. In some ways very much like Hayley, yes, i was 'old' before my time. While others my age were out partying or whatever, I was busy dealing with the adult world - much like Hayley is. I'm not saying that what I did would suit everybody, but it suited me and I really think it suits Hayley. Its alot about the person you are. Its a very interesting topic Paul Regards Mark |
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Post by Mark on Sept 20, 2008 20:32:52 GMT
Hi Roger Thats a fascinating story that triggered off a chain of events that you could never have imagined when you first heard Hayley's voice for the first time. I dont think I can beat that but I will have a think about it Regards Mark |
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Post by comet on Sept 21, 2008 12:34:16 GMT
It would appear that Hayley's music has been responsible for a lot of us becoming more computer literate. Thank you for dragging me kicking and screaming into the 21st Century. I had been completely ignoring the internet until the day I first heard Hayley's voice on the compilation The Songbird Collection, Over the Rainbow on Universal 982 733-8. In November 2005. Little did I know of the effect this was going to have on my life  |
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