Overly Obsessive

[Natasha]

OK this is just something I really felt like sharing with you all. I know we are all great fans of Hayley, and love her music, and songs, and the person she is. But I think there is the danger of becoming obsessive in a way that is quite frankly, CREEPY.

I don't want to discourage anyone from expressing themselves, but I just had to say this because I'm speaking to you all as a young girl, and I know Hayley is only 20 and I'm sure she feels weird sometimes when we talk to much about her personal appearance, her weight, or her clothes to too great an extent.

So, basically I'm just asking us to cautions and not become overly obsessive in a way that would be weird for Hayley, or any other young girls who read this forum, or anyone else for that matter.

Thank you very much, for taking the time to read my concern!!

God Bless you all,
Natasha xx

[fusilier23]

To quote an oft-used phrase from Charles Schulz, "now what brought THAT on?"

I see what Tashi's saying, but I don't think there's an easy solution to the concerns expressed. I guess it's really about good judgement and figuring out where the line is between fandom and fanaticism. It's normal to say Hayley looked good in this or that outfit at this particular concert, but repeatedly obsessing about her appearance is probably unhealthy. Her weight, like anyone else's, isn't really fair game for commenting on, but that's just basic politeness.

I wonder, though, if there's a question of trying to "have it both ways" here. There's no question that beauty and appearance are a big part of the equation here. Unfortunately, this is too dangerous and sensitive an area to elaborate further on. I can only trust the moderators here to draw the line where appropriate.

[Stephany]

Hi Natasha,

Thanks for your word of caution.
I think fandom is important since it provides direct feedback to Hayley. But you're right, we should mainly focus on her work rather than her appearance or whatever. Yet, as Fusilier23 rightly said, it's also "part of the equation" so it's probably normal that we want to discuss about something else than Hayley's music. Her personality, for instance.

We simply have to be cautious when we let things get out of hand and take our fandom too far. But what is exactly "too far" ? It's very difficult to tell but I'm sure everyone here is sane enough to know when we are crossing the line or not.

Best wishes,

Stephany

[Dave]

Hello Tashi and Steven, edit and Stephany

I understand your concerns Tashi - and Steven, I think your reply sums up the situation pretty well.

In most weeks, the mods/admins do edit a few posts to remove what are thought to be over-zealous or inappropriate comments and occasionally, entire messages are removed. Fortunately, most members know the limits fairly well by now and respect them - so we don't have too many problems of this kind.

We think we have drawn the line roughly in the right place but I think it's safe to say that no two people will ever agree on exactly where that line should be... it's probably a wavy line anyway! All members are, of course, free to draw our attention to inappropriate posts or remarks that they think may have been missed. Tashi, you are welcome to do so privately if you wish but I suspect that your post is primarily intended as a gentle reminder for those members who occasionally push at the boundaries.

Some members of most internet fan sites, music sites, hobbyist sites and even train spotters could be 'accused' of obsession although in most cases, it's just a hobby or interest. But the boundaries do need watching and that is what we try to do.

Cheers, Dave

[postscript]

Good to hear from you Classicgrace. If you were to do a troll through the member list you might be surprised at the numbers of elderly members, or at the sparsity of younger members. It is the latter that we are always keen to attract. It is younger members like yourself that are a good sounding board for how Hayley might view things--although the senior administrators are in regular contact with Hayley's key management staff, so gain a fairly accurate and regular insight into Hayley's reactions (she does read these posts periodically--or have key posts pointed out/copied to her) so we do have a pretty good low-down on acceptability to her.

Dave has given you a very good response on this, so all I will do is reaffirm what he suggested, PM either him or Roger if anything in particular perturbs you. You and those of your age-group can make a very valuable contribution by expressing your thoughts, especially since you yourself place yourself in the public limelight so have a little more awareness than the average person your age of the two different worlds of private person and public image..

If they don't agree with you, at least you will know why and the dialogue between you can be beneficial to both.

Peter S.

[Richard]

Thanks for raising a very good point, Tashi!

I can't really add anything to Dave's post, but we do have to remember that Hayley reads these boards. Anything we feel could be embarrassing or hurtful to Hayley we will remove as soon as we see it.

I also feel we should all be careful not to try and analyse Hayley too deeply.

Best Wishes,

Richard

[roger]

Thank you Tashi for raising your concerns. As Peter has said, we welcome the views of younger members, especially females of a similar age to Hayley. That was a major consideration when we first asked Caite to become a Global Moderator.

As Dave has said, we constantly endeavour to stay withing the bounds of acceptable comments (from Hayley's point of view) but it is often only a matter of opinion. We also have to balance our protection towards Hayley with members' freedom of speech. That isn't always easy and, of course, Hayley's hair style and the outfits she wears is all part of her public image. As with all artists, it is inevitable that supporters wish to discuss them.

As mentioned above, members are welcome to PM Dave or me if they have any concerns about specific posts. If necessary, we will discuss it with the rest of the moderating team and, as a last resort, we may even refer it to Steve Abbott or Gerald Westenra for guidance - something which I have done on one previous occasion. Hayley's family read these boards too and, if anything untowards was said, I feel sure they would contact me about it.

Roger

[scoobedoo]

Hi everyone,good on yer Roger,Dave,Richard, Tashi and the rest of the HWI team. Your on the case, I know even in my profession ( Yes bus driving here is regarded as a profession) When you are in the eye of Mr & Mrs or Ms General Public,you are open to scrutinies,whether it is what I do or at the other end of the scale, what Hayley does. I think Dame Malvina summed it up on her interview on Hayley's DVD Live From NZ

“ You put your makeup on, you put on your dress for the part you are doing, The people have payed their money, they are in the audience,they will meet you half way. They are listening to your voice and watching your every move” Basically, all this comes with the territory of being in the public eye. I appreciate where you guys are coming from,and yes a lot of the time it is only an opinion.

Good on yer HWI your doing a great job,

cheers all,

Rodders CH CH NZ

[postscript]

richnorri said:

Thanks for raising a very good point, Tashi!

I can't really add anything to Dave's post, but we do have to remember that Hayley reads these boards. Anything we feel could be embarrassing or hurtful to Hayley we will remove as soon as we see it.

I also feel we should all be careful not to try and analyse Hayley too deeply.

Best Wishes,

Richard

That is a very good point, Richard. Perhaps we panic at the Board 'going quiet' when we don't have any HWI members at a concert on which to report and so we start 'analysing' in absentia. And I'm not saying I may not be guilty at times!
Peter S.

[grant]

You raise a good point Natasha. It is very easy to become obsessive about something or someone. There is probably a very fine line between enthusiasm and obsession.

Other than that I think our own 'management' have their fingers on the pulse in making sure that that 'fine line' is not crossed.

Best wishes
Grant

[fusilier23]

Yep, it's very easy to fall into over-analyzing or over-discussing when the subject of the site isn't doing anything. There is no action so you try to make some up. I don't think anyone wants to over-analyze Hayley, for the simple reason that her actions are by and large normal, so there is no reason to ask "what WAS she thinking?"

On the other hand,as stated above, once Hayley, or any other performer, puts on her costume and her makeup and steps out on stage, she's a public figure, and whatever she says and does while on stage is fair game for public consumption and comment. The same applies to other public appearances such as a newspaper interview or a magazine shoot. The same applies to dealing directly with the public in a signing or a meet and greet.

The fact is performers can't expect, and don't have the right to expect that those who watch their performances and buy their recordings will have nothing to say beyond "good show and thanks for the recording." They don't have the right to expect that there won't be speculation as to what they do or say or think when not on stage. They don't have the right to expect that there won't be fans who want to approach them.

The factors involved here are many: a recording industry that sees nothing wrong with signing up girls as young as 12 and splashing their picture all over the media in the name of profit, unsophisticated and inattentive parents who don't know where to draw the line, an internet where it's impossible to stop the flow of information or opinion, and yes, a fandom with issues of its own, from well-meaning grayhairs who see the perfect granddaughter and well-meaning adults who forget we aren't ageless, to overprotective fans who brook no criticism of their favorite performer, to the downright mentally ill.

There's no easy solution to this, but I wonder if with Hayley, since she is now a legal adult and has been for 2 years, it's all water under the bridge.

[Natasha]

Thanks for listening to my concerns everybody! I really appreciate it!

[comet]

Hi Folks.
I have a daughter just a little older than Hayley, and the direction some of the threads were taking at times made me just a little uncomfortable.

My daughter also finds it quite amusing that I am following the music career of such a young and beautiful singer,
The more I try to explain it the deeper the hole

So I had better say no more

comet

[grant]

classicgrace said:

Thanks for listening to my concerns everybody! I really appreciate it!

That's why we're all here though, isn't it? :wink: To support, inform, share memories and concerns. You were quite right to raise the point and I hope your concerns have been alleviated.

Best wishes
Grant

[jons]

I was wondering if my post about criticism of Hayley has brought this on? I have noticed that some people seem to want Hayley to change to their liking. I think I mentioned it was up to Hayley which direction she goes, not what we wont in another thread. However I wanted to stick up for Hayley. I don't want to see people pushing Hayley's career in the direction they want. I worry whenever I make a post what people might think - for instance I can't stop myself making remarks on how great Hayley's voice is or how great she looks. I get quite deep when it comes to Hayley's voice - it fascinates me. However if I wont to stick up for Hayley, say how great she is, I can because of something called freedom of speech. I think we are all a bit obsessed to a certain degree, I get carried away sometimes. To me Hayley is very important, especially because she is one of the things in life that helps me. To be honest I don't think Hayley reads this forum very often so she's probably missed quite a lot of the things we have been saying about her, but I for one don't think that she would mind people sticking up for her (and a lot of us do if you rummage through this forum) or constantly saying how great she is. So I'm sticking to freedom of speech. And I believe it is good speech, so there, raspberries to you!

I try to remember that one of the greatest gifts that God gave us was humour (Apart from Hayley of course!) Its best not to take things to seriously sometimes.