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Post by milewalker on Sept 9, 2008 0:27:45 GMT
Hello all, Libby, one song by Judy Collins you might have possibly heard is Send in The Clowns. This is back from the mid 70's and in a sense is an American example of the type of music done so well on HSJS. I suspect Hayley would do quite well with it. I agree about the similarities of their voices I think we need to be careful here however, because there is something about almost any popular artist which has turned somebody off. For example, John Denver was associated with cold war disarmament Peter Paul and Mary were also associated with the protest movements of the 60's to a lesser extent - as were many folk singers of the time to one degree or another. Barbra Streisand - who Hayley reportedly admires - has long espoused liberal causes. In the unlikely event that she were to cover Toby Keith, or Lee Greenwood the opposite would apply as well. While I wholeheartedly agree that the more original material Hayley does the better her chances are, I dont think that the belief system of the original artist should be an issue on that basis alone - at least the same logic would suggest that singing Bach means she is Lutheran  or that singing Imagine makes Josh Groban (or Connie Talbot!) a socialist. ---------------------- By the way Richard, while I actually agree with you about "My Way" it is a fact that Hayley has undergone some criticism regarding her lack of life experience in other earlier work she has done - for example Memory from her first album, and ironically enough in this context, Both Sides Now as well. Jon |
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Post by Richard on Sept 9, 2008 8:18:06 GMT
Oops!  The correct lyrics of Frank Sinatra's 'New York, New York' are HERE. Richard  |
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Post by martindn on Sept 9, 2008 20:34:59 GMT
Hello all, While I wholeheartedly agree that the more original material Hayley does the better her chances are, I dont think that the belief system of the original artist should be an issue on that basis alone - at least the same logic would suggest that singing Bach means she is Lutheran or that singing Imagine makes Josh Groban (or Connie Talbot!) a socialist. Jon Yes, I agree, original material is what she needs, and probably isn't too far away from it. If she ever managed to get her song from ALW, plus she has shown that she is also a fine lyricist, she just needs to master the melody side of song writing now. BTW Imagine is a song I hate with a passion. So naive, simplistic and wrongheaded (IMHO). Martin |
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Post by Libby on Sept 12, 2008 19:45:01 GMT
I am younger than many of you, which explains my limited familiarity of many of these artists you mention. I'm older than Stephany. And Hayley. I've heard a lot of "older" songs, but I don't know who all the singers are. After I wrote my last message, I did a search on Judy Collins. Most of her songs I saw I didn't recognize, but yes, Jon, I am familiar with Send in the Clowns. I think she has a very nice voice. That's a nice song, but Hayley doesn't necessarily need to do that one. I'm sure there are other nice ones she could do. I still don't see any problem if Hayley wanted to do Joan Baez. I have thought of John Denver's songs as something Hayley could do sometime. I can imagine her singing "Sunshine on my Shoulder". She would sound so pretty, and judging from "Let Me Lie", it sounds like her type of song. Okay, now I remembered a song by Rod Stewart, the one about "Maggie". I don't care for that one (I do NOT like his voice, or the accompanying music), and it definitely wouldn't work for Hayley. So, which of his songs would work for Hayley? No, I don't think I want to check out Rod Stewart's music at the library. When asked at the Classical Brit awards who she would like to collaborate with, Hayley said Barbara Streisand, with no hesitation. So, maybe she should sing with her, and possibly that would gain her more recognition. I agree with Martin about "Imagine". The idea of unity is nice, but you know it's not possible. Somehow, I don't think the Taliban shares that notion. The part that says "Imagine there's no heaven" is terrible. Who wants to imagine that?? That their loved ones are not in heaven? I have no desire to spend eternity on this earth! Sure, it might be nice if there were "no hell below us". But it would also be nice if there were no bad people, but there are.  I hope Hayley NEVER sings that.  |
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Post by stuartj on Sept 17, 2008 23:19:14 GMT
It was only an idea, I didn't mean I absolutely want Hayley to do it. Like I said, I've only heard a little bit of Joan's songs. Well, I have 18 Joan Baez albums and, at the risk of dating myself, have listened to her since the 60s when I was a student. Yes she is associated with the 60 protests and covered many of Bob Dylan's songs. She was Dylan's girlfriend for a time and her famous song "Diamands and Rust" a bittersweet love song and one of the best written in that area was about Dylan. She and Hayley and Jose Careeras were at the same venue last year. She is streets ahead of Joan Collins who was also associated with sixties protests and has sung a huge range of songs. What is more, at least one critic has likened Hayley to a "young Joan Baez" and Baez is someone (as is Eva Cassidy, although that may have already happened) who I think Hayley should look to for inspiration (Not on the sixties protests songs, but on others). To me there seem to be marked similarities between Hayley and Baez in style and to some extent voice. And when I say look for inspiration I mean more in terms of how to put sutble feeling into a song than for vocal knowledge. I'm tempted to send people here some mp3s as examples, although I'm not sure if it is strictly correct to do so. Much of the stuff I have in mind is not on YouTube. Not on the sixties protests songs, but on others. Baez has sung Amazing Grace too, plus, In the Wild Summer Thyme, All My Trials, Forever Young (Dyan's Version), Suzanne, Carrick Fergus, Jesse, and a whole raft of other stuff, a lot of which would be sutitable for Hayley. Baez's career has spanned many years now, and her most commercial songs were: The Night they Drove old Dixie Down (probably not suitable for Hayley), Joe Hill (Political) and a song about Bangladesh, the name of which I forget. But if the seekers could do "What Have They Done to the Rain", (Baez and Peter Paul and Mary did that too), why can't Hayley? It is as much an environmental song as anti-war and one can be anti-war without being anti-soldier or left-wing to the extreme. Some Peter Paul and Mary songs such as 500 miles (covered by the seekers and Baez) would suit Hayley too. I see that Katie Meulah and others have covered "Blown in the Wind". That's another one that Hayley can cover later, too. What I'd also like to know is whether it is certain that Kathy Jenkins is to do the lead in Andrew Lloyd Webber's sequel to POTO. Whoever does that could become famous in the US. |
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Post by stuartj on Sept 17, 2008 23:22:39 GMT
Hello all, While I wholeheartedly agree that the more original material Hayley does the better her chances are, I dont think that the belief system of the original artist should be an issue on that basis alone - at least the same logic would suggest that singing Bach means she is Lutheran or that singing Imagine makes Josh Groban (or Connie Talbot!) a socialist. Jon Yes, I agree, original material is what she needs, and probably isn't too far away from it. If she ever managed to get her song from ALW, plus she has shown that she is also a fine lyricist, she just needs to master the melody side of song writing now. BTW Imagine is a song I hate with a passion. So naive, simplistic and wrongheaded (IMHO). Martin Imagine is also a song that Hayley has already sung -- in a trio with a couple of other guys at some games in Europe, I believe it was. |
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Post by stuartj on Sept 17, 2008 23:31:03 GMT
Hello all, Libby, one song by Judy Collins you might have possibly heard is Send in The Clowns. This is back from the mid 70's and in a sense is an American example of the type of music done so well on HSJS. I suspect Hayley would do quite well with it. I agree about the similarities of their voices I think we need to be careful here however, because there is something about almost any popular artist which has turned somebody off. For example, John Denver was associated with cold war disarmament Peter Paul and Mary were also associated with the protest movements of the 60's to a lesser extent - as were many folk singers of the time to one degree or another. Barbra Streisand - who Hayley reportedly admires - has long espoused liberal causes. In the unlikely event that she were to cover Toby Keith, or Lee Greenwood the opposite would apply as well. While I wholeheartedly agree that the more original material Hayley does the better her chances are, I dont think that the belief system of the original artist should be an issue on that basis alone - at least the same logic would suggest that singing Bach means she is Lutheran or that singing Imagine makes Josh Groban (or Connie Talbot!) a socialist. ---------------------- By the way Richard, while I actually agree with you about "My Way" it is a fact that Hayley has undergone some criticism regarding her lack of life experience in other earlier work she has done - for example Memory from her first album, and ironically enough in this context, Both Sides Now as well. Jon Sinartra's My Way is an older man's song. Hayley shouldn't go near Sinatra material, that is in no way her. Folky -- Buffy St Marie -- is another, perhaps, whose songs might be of interest. Wasn't Judy Collins most famous song a Buffy St Marie cover about him being a something or other in the rodeo? I forget the title. [ Links removed for copyright reasons] If you get an ad page when clicking on these, just close that page. If the admins think I shouldn't have included whole songs I could chop them into excerpts only. |
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Post by stuartj on Sept 18, 2008 1:17:18 GMT
I agree with Martin about "Imagine". The idea of unity is nice, but you know it's not possible. Somehow, I don't think the Taliban shares that notion. The part that says "Imagine there's no heaven" is terrible. Who wants to imagine that?? That their loved ones are not in heaven? I have no desire to spend eternity on this earth! Sure, it might be nice if there were "no hell below us". But it would also be nice if there were no bad people, but there are. I hope Hayley NEVER sings that. Sorry but Hayley has sung Imagine. It is an atheistic song, but you miss the point Libby, it implies: "Imagine there were no bad people etc." If atheism is wrongheaded, then Imagine is wrongheaded, apart from that I would have thought it was almost identical to what Jesus himself taught -- what he taught according to all the major churches, anyway. I can't for the life of me see any difference between Imagine's prescription for living and that of Christianity. New Covenant Christianity anyway; it's true the God of the old testament seemed a bit nationalistic and not altogether anti-war Here is Hayley at the World Games, and in the second half of this video she sings Imagine. www.mediafire.com/file/476lrisiqav/worldgameswdr140705.wmv |
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Post by milewalker on Sept 18, 2008 2:03:05 GMT
Hi StuartJ
A while back there was a thread somewhere about songs we would recommend to Hayley as music - not necessarily to sing - and I mentioned Diamonds and Rust. Actually, I think she could do a pretty good job with it - and even The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down isnt all that different in terms of song structure from something like Summer Fly. Summer Fly in turn would have suited a young Baez quite well I think. All of this does lend some credence to your idea that the two of them are rather similar vocally,
One thing I never really understood is why a singers politics can become so associated with the enjoyment of their music. I am not after all, planning on voting for Ms Baez, or Judy Collins. I merely enjoy their voices.
Jon
PS - I am not sure about the impact of landing the role in POTO2 would be for Hayley here. I am basing this merely on the fact that the movie actually lost money here. It would certainly give her a higher profile. On the other hand, while I rather enjoyed Emmy Rossum's performance it doesnt seem to have done a great deal for her career to this point either vocally or in terms of acting - though she is still working and it is way to soon to write her off.
Jon
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Post by roger on Sept 18, 2008 2:26:19 GMT
Hi Stuart,
I suspect the two tracks in your earlier post are taken from commercially available albums in which case, uploading them in full is in breach of copyright. I have therefore removed the links. Record companies usually permit no more than 30-second clips which are deemed to be for promotional purposes. I regret we can accept nothing longer than that.
Roger
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Post by roger on Sept 18, 2008 2:33:52 GMT
I'm tempted to send people here some mp3s as examples, although I'm not sure if it is strictly correct to do so. Sorry Stuart but I have to say no to that too. Please see our statement on the Music Piracy and Copyright thread. Thanks, Roger |
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Post by stuartj on Sept 18, 2008 7:40:17 GMT
Hi Stuart, I suspect the two tracks in your earlier post are taken from commercially available albums in which case, uploading them in full is in breach of copyright. I have therefore removed the links. Record companies usually permit no more than 30-second clips which are deemed to be for promotional purposes. I regret we can accept nothing longer than that. Roger Fair enough. I'm not sure whether those paticular albums are commercially available, but it's likely the songs feature on later compilation albums at least. I may put back 30-second clips of them. |
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Post by stuartj on Sept 18, 2008 7:50:08 GMT
Hi StuartJ A while back there was a thread somewhere about songs we would recommend to Hayley as music - not necessarily to sing - and I mentioned Diamonds and Rust. Actually, I think she could do a pretty good job with it - and even The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down isnt all that different in terms of song structure from something like Summer Fly. Summer Fly in turn would have suited a young Baez quite well I think. All of this does lend some credence to your idea that the two of them are rather similar vocally, One thing I never really understood is why a singers politics can become so associated with the enjoyment of their music. I am not after all, planning on voting for Ms Baez, or Judy Collins. I merely enjoy their voices. Jon PS - I am not sure about the impact of landing the role in POTO2 would be for Hayley here. I am basing this merely on the fact that the movie actually lost money here. It would certainly give her a higher profile. On the other hand, while I rather enjoyed Emmy Rossum's performance it doesnt seem to have done a great deal for her career to this point either vocally or in terms of acting - though she is still working and it is way to soon to write her off. Jon Hi Jon, I'm glad someone else -- two people now -- seem to share my view that baez has similarities to Hayley. I agree absolutely about a singer's politics becoming associated with their music. Why on earth it should have any effect on Baez's, say, singing a non-political song. And are Baez's peacenik views somehow more contemptible than Sinatra's associations? holding Anti-Vietnam war views during the 60's was not all that unusual and I didn't think it was that frowned on these days. |
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Post by Richard on Sept 18, 2008 7:54:35 GMT
Please be careful, everybody.
If this thread turns into a political discussion it will be locked.
Richard
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Post by fusilier23 on Sept 19, 2008 0:46:01 GMT
No one is looking to turn this into a political discussion, I think. However, I did earlier point out that if a singer espouses an agenda that agenda can later prove awfully hard to shake off. Hayley and Katherine have both done an admirable job of staying apolitical, and I believe should monitor their choice of material to stay that way.
Hayley did "Imagine" once at a function because that's what the people who set up the function wanted. To my knowledge she has never put it in her regular repertory. I'd no more say that makes her a peacenik than her one-time singing of the Star-Spangled Banner makes her an American.
However, some of these other singers and groups have become so wedded to the politics that surrounded their music at the time of its creation that now they are seen as out-of-date and can't attract much of an audience beyond the political or the nostalgic. Joan Baez' last major public appearance was supporting the Cindy Sheehan nonsense down in Texas, and I saw a recent TV special in which Peter Paul and Mary performed "The Times, They Are A-Changin'" and prefaced it with pretentious rhetoric about "justice is never out of style." Oh please. It seems like these perfomers are stuck in time, relics of a world long gone and forgotten amidst rusting VW buses and long dried-up flowers.
My point is this: original music would be great. I would like nothing better than for Hayley to go down in history known for a song that she and she alone created and made famous, but for it to truly be a song that goes down in history, it must be able to transcend its time. "Danny Boy" could do that, it's about something every generation can relate to, ditto "The Battle Hymn of the Republic." Whether Hayley can write a song that transcends time is something we have yet to see.
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or that singing Imagine makes Josh Groban (or Connie Talbot!) a socialist.
I hope Hayley NEVER sings that. 
