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Post by stuartj on Sept 2, 2008 19:34:14 GMT
Well, Josh Groban has been on Oprah several times, and yes, that has certainly gained him more popularity than he might've without her. Most recently his Christmas album was one of "Oprah's favorite things", and so he sang a couple of the songs on the show. Why couldn't Hayley be seen as as an Oprah-type personality? Does Josh Groban seem like one? I mean, what do you imagine as an "Oprah-type" personality? I happen to think that Oprah would be very interested in Hayley's project for young girls in Ghana, since Oprah herself has programs for young girls in South Africa. I agree that it will probably be a slow process, although I do think a song on a major movie would give her a boost. You're right, it depends on the movie. And I do hope she sings for the Olympics in London. How will joining the forum on Oprah help? Oprah probably doesn't read it, so how's that going to get Hayley on the show? I suppose it wouldn't hurt; if nothing else, it'll help spread the word. Hi Libby, I grant that I don't know a huge amount about Oprah and may have that wrong. To be honest, no, I wouldn't have seen Josh Groban as as Oprah type personality either, so maybe my understanding of Oprah is limited. Perhaps it is a better idea than I realised. As far as Oprah's forum is concerned, that wasn't my point, but I hazard that Oprah would get briefed about what happens on her forum and any reference to Hayley wouldn't do any harm, whether it gets her on the show or not. |
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Post by stuartj on Sept 2, 2008 19:54:41 GMT
Hi Dave, You are correct of course as far as that goes. I think perhaps I am more negative than you are - perhaps an impression skewed by the fact that I happen to live in America - which no attempt of mine to step back from can completely erase. It does beg the question however of how you and many others on this site would view her "success" if she had performed one song in the UK this year. Still, I recall two posts within the past couple of months - one of them asking Hayley to perform a song - and her reply that "it costs money". The other was in the recent thread about her pics that Joe closed (sorry Joe). In that one Steve was complaining in part about seeing all of those pics of the same dresses. When I see something like that, I do not have the reaction Steve did. It simply causes me to wonder "why". It is the way my mind works. Putting two and two together - and possibly getting five  - I think that these sorts of things may give us a possibly unintended insight into her actual financial state. Perhaps it means she is merely unusually frugal - but it just might be a sign that she has to nickel and dime herself to make the rest of that contract work. That is most assuredly not my definition of "success". Jon Jon, It had occured to me that as a New Zealander I may pitch my idea of "success" lower than many Americans. This difference in perception is not because of cultural differences but simply a function of a very large country as opposed to a very small one. Believe it or not, I thought that Hayley's one obvious vice was a penchant for fancy clothes and she must have a barn full of dresses. But again, that is the perception of someone born and bred in the Papanui/Burnside area -- the same area that Hayley comes from. And, yes, although it doesn't really tell us anything about her finacial situation, I believe she is very frugal, even by Burnside standards. There are a number of interviews and press reports that have drawn attention to this. |
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Post by socalboy on Sept 2, 2008 23:06:12 GMT
This thread has more lives than the proverbial cat because of a disconnect between where Hayley is at in the U.S. and where we think she should be. We may chalk it up to professional miscalculation, generation gaps, hard economic reality or plain old impatience, but something is telling us that the trajectory just isn’t right. There’s an itch and we can’t help but scratch it.
I count myself only slightly more optimistic than Jon, who I think pretty much nails the hurdles. Right now, Hayley is virtually invisible here. However, for those declaring that she must reach across a vast nation and appeal to multiple regions and tastes, such an undertaking is neither realistic nor necessary. She can be hugely successful here without doing anything of the sort. As someone else stated, there are country fans and rap fans and pop fans and on and on. Each fan base supports a variety of artists who thrive within their genre, and almost every success story also comes with a nation-sized group of detractors.
The more relevant question for me is whether, within the particularly difficult cross-over genre, Hayley can attract a critical mass and become our female Josh Groban. There are tantalizing hints that it’s possible.
You can try to do this thing gradually and hope for the best. Frankly, I cannot think of a single, successful vocal artist in the States who has triumphed via the tortoise vs. the hair approach. We like our success stories shot out of a cannon, even though the back story is usually years of semi-anonymous hard work. Which is why I hold fast to the one-two punch of a major movie theme and Oprah follow-up. And yes it will probably take a combination of luck, timing and strategic PR work.
But it doesn’t require a drain on Hayley’s pocket book nor endless transcontinental flights. No one succeeds this way and it’s folly to try. According to Google, she’s now the most famous Hayley in the world. It's only a matter of time before we here get the word.
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Post by milewalker on Sept 3, 2008 2:04:27 GMT
I'm not sure what you mean by "Sissel at the same stage of her career". Do you mean in the US or in the UK? I don't know much about Sissel. If you compare Hayley with the top "hard-core" pop singers then I would agree that she is a second, or even third tier star. I wouldn't expect anything else from a singer of her type. But why does she have to be a "top tier" star in that sense, or even include more younger people in her fan base? Hi Stuart, Dave might have more information about this than I do, but Sissell was a young almost surreally popular soprano crossover singer who hailed from Norway - a country with a population not all that much higher than New Zealand. She was at one point selling a half million per release there if not more - a pace over twice what Hayley was able to achieve in New Zealand with Pure - and Sissell held that level for three consecutive releases. Hayley's path was very different - but she did manage to attain a comparible level of sales internationally. Through the first five years of their careers (and I hope you dont take offense at the fact I am neglecting Hayley's formitive years in New Zealand) they each had moved 3 million CD's - give or take. Hayley may actually be a little ahead. However, when I look at where Sissell was at that point, and where Hayley is, I am struck by a couple of big differences which I think placed Sissell in a considerably better position going forward. Even given Hayley's reduced responsibilities post Pure, the difference in their overhead just has to be enormous. If the simple ability to hang around profitably constitutes a form of success, Sissell didnt have to do anything but stay in Norway. Hayley simply doesnt have a base that strong in any one place. She has to balance the UK, Japan, NZ and the rest of the world. As far as why I think Hayley needs an infusion of younger fans - Pound for pound, a younger fan is simply worth more. If I am 20 and become a loyal fan there is a chance I will still be buying records, and attending concerts 40 years later. This is not likely to be the case if I am 50 when I become a fan. Most long standing acts - say the Moodies or the Stones - are still around because of this. They picked up a loyal core of fans about the same age as they were or younger, and enough of those people are still around to support them decades later. Jon |
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Post by stevemacdonald on Sept 3, 2008 3:01:08 GMT
Another sure-fire way for Hayley to succeed in the US is for her to sing a commercial jingle for Coke or Pepsi. Maybe she could do a retro tune like "The Pepsi Generation", evocative of the '60s and '70s which so many aging baby boomers fondly remember.
Hayley's gorgeous, easy-listening voice would breathe new life into the jingles we grew up with and go a long way toward raising her profile. And if you think any of this is selling out, consider that she has lent her voice to television ads before.
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Post by stuartj on Sept 3, 2008 3:25:43 GMT
I'm not sure what you mean by "Sissel at the same stage of her career". Do you mean in the US or in the UK? I don't know much about Sissel. If you compare Hayley with the top "hard-core" pop singers then I would agree that she is a second, or even third tier star. I wouldn't expect anything else from a singer of her type. But why does she have to be a "top tier" star in that sense, or even include more younger people in her fan base? Hi Stuart, Dave might have more information about this than I do, but Sissell was a young almost surreally popular soprano crossover singer who hailed from Norway - a country with a population not all that much higher than New Zealand. She was at one point selling a half million per release there if not more - a pace over twice what Hayley was able to achieve in New Zealand with Pure - and Sissell held that level for three consecutive releases. Hayley's path was very different - but she did manage to attain a comparible level of sales internationally. Through the first five years of their careers (and I hope you dont take offense at the fact I am neglecting Hayley's formitive years in New Zealand) they each had moved 3 million CD's - give or take. Hayley may actually be a little ahead. However, when I look at where Sissell was at that point, and where Hayley is, I am struck by a couple of big differences which I think placed Sissell in a considerably better position going forward. Even given Hayley's reduced responsibilities post Pure, the difference in their overhead just has to be enormous. If the simple ability to hang around profitably constitutes a form of success, Sissell didnt have to do anything but stay in Norway. Hayley simply doesnt have a base that strong in any one place. She has to balance the UK, Japan, NZ and the rest of the world. As far as why I think Hayley needs an infusion of younger fans - Pound for pound, a younger fan is simply worth more. If I am 20 and become a loyal fan there is a chance I will still be buying records, and attending concerts 40 years later. This is not likely to be the case if I am 50 when I become a fan. Most long standing acts - say the Moodies or the Stones - are still around because of this. They picked up a loyal core of fans about the same age as they were or younger, and enough of those people are still around to support them decades later. Jon I see. I think. I thought someone said earlier that it took Sissel 20 to become famous in the US? I have discovered her recently and like her, but according to Wikipedia she has sold 10 million odd records mainly in Norway. That she has sold many more records in Norway than Hayley will sell in New Zealand doesn't surprise me in the least. Contrary to what people think, Hayley just isn't as big a star in New Zealand as is supposed. She is a much bigger star in Japan and the UK than in New Zealand. Will Martin was saying not so long ago that people in New Zealand don't realise what a big star in the UK Hayley is. This is true. Friends I've shown videos to are astonished that she is doing all these concerts and wonder why the local papers don't mention some of them. A comment after Dame Kiri's rant from a member of the public in a newspaper here was -- "what's Hayley ever done to put New Zealand on the map, who's ever heard of her outside of NZ?" But Hayley's sales in New Zealand vs Sissel's in Norway is an unfair comparison because Hayley is up against all of the English speaking world as it were, and the local product traditionally does badly in New Zealand. My musician friend's reason for her pulling in some younger fans was the more usual one that young people buy more records than older people. But I go back to my contention that Hayley is in what the British critics call the "easy listening brigade". As is Nana Mouskouri  I'm not sure if it was her you (or someone) described as "that other singer". Prescisly! Yes, "that other singer who never did well in the US". A second tier star? No, no, no. Not even that, nowhere near it. Jon, I define anyone who has sold over 300 million albums in a career that has lasted from the time she was a teenager until her seventies as successful. Mouskouri is in the second tier of all-time best sellers, according to Wikipedia. The top tier features five singers/groups who have sold over 500 million, and the second those who have sold between 200 million and 499 million. Mouskouri ranks 21st over all ahead of Pink Floyd, Rod Stewart, and the Rolling Stones. I think there is more than some overlap between the songs that she and Hayley sing. There will be a handful of new songs Hayley has sung that Nana hasn't, but that is all. My theory is that these easy listening genre people aren't subject to the same rules as the hard-core popsters or rockers, etc. This, I believe, is because they specialise in songs that are evergreens. Nana was singing Amazing Grace Long before Hayley was born, for example. The easy listening brigade don't need a fan base the way that groups like the Rolling Stones do, the fan base is there, always -- like it is for core classical. I think what is happening with Hayley is that her management are attempting to get her a foot in both camps. Or maybe they are just not sure which way to go. I think the "easy listening", and folky material, should be the staple, because that is what she seems to get the best response to, but she could look at material from musicals and some more straight pop as well. I am getting well away from Hayley in the US although it appears Mouskouri had a fan in Harry Belafonte and toured the US with him in 1966. So no one much remembers her name and she doesn't take up the column inches in the tabloids, and is not argued about in bars. She just sells more albums than the Rolling Stones. I'm suggesting that Hayley could be like this -- low profile, big selling. Now we just have to work out what Nana's secret was. She is evidently a Unicef ambassador, but Hayley's already done that. Much as I hate to relate it there was an intemperate critic -- not an easy listening fan -- who once described Nana as the "Empress of the Banal". And it wounds me even more to relate that a New Zealand satirical magazine described Hayley in exactly the same words. At least it was done in reasonably good fun, it seemed, and not with the malice that seems to come from the opera community. Perhaps they should be called the Empress and Princess of easy listening, or now that Nana has retired, Hayley is Empress. But surely these similarities mean that Hayley will go on to sell 400 odd million albums too. PS as far as at least some of the above is concerned, I do have my tongue my cheek. Actually, I was kidding around with my suggestions that Hayley tour with Paul Potts and Jonathan Ansell. Although, a tour with someone whose profile is as high as Potts mightn't do any harm. |
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Joe
Administrator
Supporting Hayley since 2003!
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Post by Joe on Sept 3, 2008 3:57:47 GMT
Another sure-fire way for Hayley to succeed in the US is for her to sing a commercial jingle for Coke or Pepsi. Maybe she could do a retro tune like "The Pepsi Generation", evocative of the '60s and '70s which so many aging baby boomers fondly remember. Hi Steve, You remember that song that Coca-Cola used during Christmas..."I'd like to Teach the World to Sing". Hayley could go with a retro look that would be marvellous! |
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Post by stuartj on Sept 3, 2008 4:03:12 GMT
Another sure-fire way for Hayley to succeed in the US is for her to sing a commercial jingle for Coke or Pepsi. Maybe she could do a retro tune like "The Pepsi Generation", evocative of the '60s and '70s which so many aging baby boomers fondly remember. Hi Steve, You remember that song that Coca-Cola used during Christmas..."I'd like to Teach the World to Sing". Hayley could go with a retro look that would be marvellous! What about her singing Pokarekare Ana at the next Presidential inauguration? i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif |
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Joe
Administrator
Supporting Hayley since 2003!
Posts: 6,715
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Post by Joe on Sept 3, 2008 4:12:28 GMT
Good idea...Hayley already knows Washington pretty well |
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Post by comet on Sept 3, 2008 7:56:12 GMT
Hi everyone...
Wow ! some of these posts take time to digest.
While you are at your computer, maybe you could do the following:
There are several radio stations worldwide that have request programmes,
If you have some time to spare find out what radio stations are in your own area,
Send in genuine requests for people you know or who are known well in the area for
anniversaries, birthdays or other occasions.
Of course the requested music would be HAYLEY,
Make it easy for them, offer them options of favourite tracks from the available albums like this for instance :
Hi Folks,
Thank you for all the wonderful music you play for us every day.
Could you please play a Hayley Westenra song for the growing number of Hayley fans in this area,
From the album Treasure you might find Whispering Hope suitable.
From the Album Odyssey : May it be or Dell'Amore Non Si Sa duet with Andrea Bocelli. or Bridal Ballad from the Merchant of Venice.
From the Album Pure : River Of Dreams, Heaven or Pokarekare Ana.
Hayley has recorded vocals on Mike Oldfields Music of the Spheres and the soundtrack to the Movie Flood.
From the Album Pure : River Of Dreams, Heaven or Pokarekare Ana.
From the album West Side Story : Tonight
....................................................................................................................
You will be delighted when you hear it played on the radio.
Keep us up to date with your successes on this thread.
For instance in Ireland on Lyric FM , Ireland's nationwide classical broadcaster we have managed to get Hayley played or mentioned
several times including mentions of her up coming concerts.
If Hayleys's record company or promoters would be kind enough to let us know when PROMO CDs have been sent to radio stations then we could start requesting specific songs.
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Post by milewalker on Sept 3, 2008 16:37:59 GMT
Hi Stuart,
Apparantly I wasnt clear (it happens all the time). Putting it another way, though the first five year of her career sold roughly as many CD's in Norway as Hayley did with her international contract. About 3 million each give or take. This suggests a comparison with Hayley even though they got there different ways. Despite that, (or maybe because of it), Sissell expanded her international sales rather more slowly - so that it took her 20 years to achieve 100,000 sales in the US.
Unless my memory is even worse than I thought, Pure was the single largest selling album in NZ history (15x platinum). I dont think that could happen without some real level of popularity. Her percap perfomance both before and since Pure has also been substantially better than anywhere else. Treasure for example has sold over 50,000 in NZ 50,000 sales means that about one person in 85 who lives in NZ bought the album. Extended to the UK that would be the equivalent of perhaps 700,000 sales. Extended to the US that would work out to about 3 and a half million.
I cant speak for the actual feeling in the market there Stuart, but those numbers tell me she is doing just fine. The problem with comparison to Sissell is not that Hayley's performance in NZ is weak - it is that Sissel's performance in Norway is probably without historic precedent.
However, this wasnt the point. It doesnt matter why Hayley doesnt have a base of support like Sissell. It doesnt matter if the comparison is "fair" or not. In terms of determining her odds of having a long career, it only matters whether or not the contention is true. She has a foot in several markets, which is a good thing, but it comes at the cost of spreading her very thinly, even without the added complications of trying to break the US. She has a much smaller margin of error in my opinion than Sissell did at a comparible time of her career.
While I would be delighted if Hayley were to sell 300 million records world wide over her career, I do not believe that Mouskori is very relevant to Hayley now - a lot of these things only happen because a unique singer comes along at a unique time to exploit a unique market condition. Music and musical tastes have changed a great deal in 50 years - the change actually seems to be generational more or less. Hayley wont match Streisand either for the same reason. Easy listening music is simply out of vogue now - though I dont think this means that popular taste in music has declined. Sissell is a more attainable goal though even in her case, the change in music tastes works against Hayley
Jon
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Jon
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Post by larryhauck on Sept 3, 2008 19:53:08 GMT
Rod Stewart did an album of old standards and sold tons of albums. They went over so big that he made three more.
So I don't think that type of music is dead in the US.
Larry
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Post by milewalker on Sept 3, 2008 20:05:01 GMT
Hi Larry,
This was also discussed above, but in brief, Stewert not only did it recently, but Tony Bennett, Johnny Mathis and Barry Manilow as well. If you are male, have been around forever, and at one point had a huge fanbase, you can sell a standards album - but as far as I know one hasnt been done successfully by anyone who doesnt fit that mold in quite some time. When Linda Rondstadt did one a while back it had sales similar to Hayley. When Olivia Newton John did one, the effects were similar.
I suspect this is mostly middle aged to old people buying something from an artist they have been following most of their life. I would like to think they might buy something similar from Hayley - but they dont.....
Jon
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Post by I-H-F on Sept 3, 2008 20:06:48 GMT
Rod Stewart did an album of old standards and sold tons of albums. They went over so big that he made three more. So I don't think that type of music is dead in the US. Larry ...If Hayley wanted to succeed in the US, how about a duet with someone well known such as Rod Stewart, Billy Joel (apparently he has released Classical material), Sting or Bono (he seems to have duetted with everybody!). Sissel was featured on Prince Igor with the rapper, Warren G. I'm not sure how successful it was, but maybe something along those lines could be an option too? I do think its important that Hayley's music reaches a new audience, that wouldn't necessarily have heard of her before. As mentioned, Rod Stewart did this will old classics. Tom Jones duetted with popular singers on his Reload album, and Robbie Williams/Westlife tried Sinatra-type songs. |
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Post by Libby on Sept 3, 2008 21:44:03 GMT
As far as Oprah's forum is concerned, that wasn't my point, but I hazard that Oprah would get briefed about what happens on her forum and any reference to Hayley wouldn't do any harm, whether it gets her on the show or not. I know, it was Richard who suggested it. Sorry, it's kind of hard to quote 2 people in 1 post. |
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- I think that these sorts of things may give us a possibly unintended insight into her actual financial state. Perhaps it means she is merely unusually frugal - but it just might be a sign that she has to nickel and dime herself to make the rest of that contract work. That is most assuredly not my definition of "success".
