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Post by larryhauck on Aug 25, 2008 19:05:20 GMT
Hayley wants to tour the U S. She has said that repeatedly; however so far it hasn't worked out. She desperately needs a new CD to click in the US.
Larry
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Post by larryhauck on Aug 26, 2008 1:31:27 GMT
Steve,
I totally agree with you. To do so though she needs much more media exposure. I'm sure, with the right promotional effort she will make it in the US.
Larry
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Post by milewalker on Aug 28, 2008 1:42:34 GMT
Hi Martin,
Frankly, while HSJS is very good, I dont know that the word "daring" entered my mind the first time I listened to it. In part this was because I was trying to take in context - ie an album of Japanese pop standards which were very well sung. It never occurred to me that the album would be released outside of Japan, nor did I feel it would fare particularly well if it were released in the US (perhaps marginally better than her other releases) An American analogue - say "Hayley Sings Modern American Pop Standards" (obviously that wouldnt be the title of such a release) might fare a little better. Even then, with a couple of exceptions, such albums simply dont have a good track record here. (Sometimes a legacy artist - say Rod Stewart or Barry Manilow - does actually hit here with such an album.)
However as I can easily name two dozen singers who are surviving but not thriving in America doing pretty much the same thing, as well as a few more or less recent releases here by better known people which actually did hit to some extent, I simply dont see exactly what about this CD would be widely perceived as particularly "daring" in the American markets.
Nor did I find the album particularly "surprising". I have been hinting since I began posting here that I thought Hayley was going to try to gradually move away from crossover and towards something else. Also, there has been one or more songs in the same vein on every album she has done. "Hayley Westenra" had Bright Eyes. "My Gift to You" had Morning has Broken. "Pure" had (the daring) Wuthering Heights. "Odyssey" had Both Sides Now, and Celtic Treasure had a less well known song which was truly "daring" - Summer Fly.
It is actually pretty commonplace for a cross genre artist to use an entire album or more than one to explore one genre in particular. For example, in his early career, John Denver was a folk singer who occasionally explored other genres, including country and western music. However, he released several albums mid career which were almost entirely country oriented and even got a nod as the C&W "artist of the year" for one of them.
Once again, you can make the argument that she sings this material better than anyone else around right now - and I dont disagree with that. I just feel it is a subjective reaction by a fan to her voice which is not likely to be shared to anything like the same degree in the streets.
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As a partial aside, I see two very good possible reasons why the album was never considered for international release.
First, I think she was at a point in her contract evolution where she could really use a sales boost, while at the same time keeping the release overhead and promotion budget to a minimum. One big problem with an international release is that it must be promoted internationally at an added cost of both time and money. She wasnt getting enough traction in the US, and her sales in the UK were level but unspectacular post "Pure". There were signs that she had unrealized potential in Japan, so the way they handled this seems very logical to me.
Secondly, I think that they wanted to test Hayley's "pop potential" in an environment which was as tightly controlled as possible. In other words, by limiting the album to a Japanese release it might have done as much or maybe even more for her (read Decca) financially as an international release would have done. At the same time, by limiting the release, much of the risk was removed because if the pop album failed, the failure would be limited to that market as well.
Jon
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Post by stuartj on Aug 28, 2008 7:41:57 GMT
Hi Martin, Material removed for sake of space. I don't think the Japanese album should be released in the US, it could do more harm than good. I thought that a way to Hayley known in the US would be for her to tour with Paul Potts doing duets and solos of popular standards, and create an album "Paul and Hayley sing old favourites", (or the "American songbook") or something like that. They should do songs like This land, Shenandoah, of course, All my trials, etc. Paul is famous there of course, but that means his management may not be too keen on the idea. And then I ssw someone say that the female markets and the boy bands are very popular and how does Hayely overcome mother nature? Simple. She tours with Jonathan Ansell! If Jonathan can't reel in the romantically inclined older women, no one can, and he and Hayley can create a non-raunchy romantic atomosphere. Problem solved! Seriously, I'd say PATIENCE PLEASE! There is no great hurry. Let's just give things time to develop. It is true that Hayley is now all of 21. This is the sort of age when most "successful" New Zealand singers would be looking to perhaps try their luck in Australia or even the UK. Hayley's voice will keep maturing for a few years yet and her ability to tell a song's story will improve as she gets older (not that I think that she does it that badly now). Maybe the time to have a real go at the US market will be in 4 or 5 years time (when she will be about the age Jonathan Ansell is now, and sill 2-3 odd years younger than Katherine Jenkins is now). Think about it - in five years time Hayley will be the same age as Jonathan Ansell is now and still two years younger than Kathy Jenkins is now! Let's not be precipitate. I'm confident her cracking the US market will come, but even if it takes until she is 30, that wouldn't be too bad. |
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Post by milewalker on Aug 28, 2008 17:52:35 GMT
Hi Stuart
A couple of points in more or less random order.....
In my opinion, Hayley's youth is not a major consideration in this argument. She has been around seven years, and that is the same amount of time whether she is 21 or 31. Seven years is more than sufficient to establish a track record, most people in the industry now have a pretty good idea of what she does, how well she does it, and what its commercial potential might be. She has also already made repeated efforts
to establish a presense here. There is an old industry adage which happens to be true more often than not. If you dont succeed in a market the first time you try, the chances are you will never succeed. It is the hype which was involved - the expectations of success expressed by her record company - more than the somewhat disappointing results - which causes the biggest problem.
I am not declaring doom and gloom. Lightning could strike in the form of a blockbuster movie theme which becomes a breakout hit. Her music might evolve by some point to be more commercially viable. She might be able to hang around long enough to establish a significant spillover. In fact, I suspect the odds are in favor of her having more success here (if the expectations are kept reasonable) if she is given enough time.
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Compare the size of the contract Hayley signed in 2003 with that of Jonathan's and two things jump out. First, Hayley was tailored to be a true international star and Jonathan was not. Second, there is no reason to suspect that there are any plans at all at this point to introduce Jonathan to the US in any kind of systematic way - much less to have him tour here. Jenkins' contract was much the same. In her case, her sales may actually be high enough that at some point an effort might be made in the US (she may not want to - it is a daunting task for a woman)
Putting this another way, I have been trying to objectively establish Hayley's real standing in her field - which I suspect is considerably lower than most people on this site perceive it to be. She has established herself as a viable performer to the extent that she can probably make a living doing this as long as she wants to. What she has not done to this point is meet the initial hype - so it is a real question in my mind at what level her subsequent career (after her existing contract) will settle. Her standing at that point could be anwhere from becoming a more or less local artist to maintaining her international status.
It is true that Hayley's voice will likely keep maturing for some time - what is much less clear is the manner in which it will mature and how commercially viable the finished product will be. I personally think that she is evolving towards something which might have a higher commericial ceiling over time - think Streisand and not Jenkins - if she can keep enough people on board long enough to make the transition. But I could easily be wrong about all of this......there is an awful lot of luck involved in what she does.
Jon
PS Nowhere did I say that HSJS should not be released in the US. I think it would be a modest success - but probablynot worth the time, money and diversion involved. What is hard to get people to see is that the US has 40 times the area of the UK. I dont think that Hayley understood the full impact of that 5 years ago either.
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Post by martindn on Aug 29, 2008 13:16:51 GMT
Jon,
The reason why Hayley's contrat is as it is is becuase back in 2003, Decca saw her as someone with enormous potential. Personally, I still think they were right (record company executives are no fools) and that that potential is still there. I see it every time I go to one of her conceerts, with people, especially those who have not seen her before, coming out completely overcome by what they have experienced.
Yes, I know a live performance is a different thing to a record, but those who enjoy her live will probably go out and buy her records. What's more she has plenty of fans, some in this forum, who have never seen her live yet still buy her records. There are still I am sure, a huge number of people out there who would enjoy Hayley's music and buy her records if they knew about her.
The real problem therefore is publicity and promotion. If she has done less well than expected in the US, unless US tastes are a lot more different to UK ones than I think, the problem must be poor publicity and promotion. Or more likely, not enough of it to tackle such a huge market.
In the end of course, from the promoter's point of view it is a gamble. So they got cold feet and pulled out too soon. And Hayley fails to realise her potential.
However it is not too late as you say. All it needs is one influential person in the national media to be as blown away by Hayley's music as we are here, and to start playing it, for her to become known. And if she becomes known over there, I believe she will win the hearts of the American people.
Martin
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Post by chantelle on Aug 29, 2008 14:55:19 GMT
However it is not too late as you say. All it needs is one influential person in the national media to be as blown away by Hayley's music as we are here, and to start playing it, for her to become known. And if she becomes known over there, I believe she will win the hearts of the American people. To quote a previous post: What is hard to get people to see is that the US has 40 times the area of the UK. That is precisely the difficulty! And not only is the US much larger in terms of area, but it is also (I believe) much more diverse. The West Coast and the East Coast aren't just geographical terms, they are definitions of a way of life, and a certain mindset! And you throw in the Midwest, and the South, and...! The marketing techniques for each region will be, although not drastically, noticeably different. If I can go slightly OT and use an example: Katherine Jenkins. She is often referred to as the "girl next door" type, and she often mentions her desire to tour in the States, particularly in the Midwest. Well, I'm sorry to say, although Katherine may be a "girl next door" in Neath, she is certainly not a "girl next door" in Chicago, or Kansas City! Her marketing technique would have to be changed in order for her to acheive the same kind of success in the States as she has in the UK. An endorsement by "one influential person in the national media" will not be enough for Hayley to be suddenly recognized and embraced by the entire nation. Because there really is no such thing as one influential purpose! (We don't all watch Oprah!) It will take a cooperative, simultaneous effort of synchronized publicity throughout the different regions of the US for Hayley to become "nationally" popular. Or, of course, she could just focus her efforts on one region, but that would still be fairly limited popularity, and there's no guarantee it would spill over into other regions. |
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Post by stevemacdonald on Aug 29, 2008 16:05:26 GMT
I predict Hayley will catch on big in the US, but only after she has a hit movie song. If you remember, it was "Titanic" that made all the difference for Celine Dion. And a generation earlier, it took "Goldfinger" to put Shirley Bassey in the fast lane. Once there, you're a hot commodity who can hit Leno, Letterman and Oprah with one hand tied behind your back.
So listen up Bedlam: Get Hayley a song in a huge movie, one with major stars and widespread appeal. Enough of this artsy stuff like "Merchant of Venice" and "Jekkyl". Go for the Steven Speilberg- and James Cameron-level efforts. You do this and I guarantee she will have lasting fame in the States.
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Post by Libby on Aug 29, 2008 20:14:46 GMT
No way, Hayley should not "become British". I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that, but she's a New Zealander. I believe that the place she's from is what has kept her such a nice, halfway normal person. I’m not sure the Japanese album would help her success in the US at all. I don't have it yet (it's on it's way!), but from the clips I've heard, I think only 3 of them might appeal to them. "I Believe" is amazing, the English/Japanese one has sort of a country/folk sound that people might like, and The Amazing Grace duet is gorgeous (well, Hayley is). There was another that sounded really beautiful ("let the tears fall down.." ?). There’s one I’ve heard on youtube, that I know a lot of you like. It was nice at first, but I grew bored with it towards the end. It got too repetitive. I really doubt Japanese pop would excite anyone who likes American pop, no matter how pretty it is. They're used to songs suited for dance clubs, or ballads by powerhouses like Celine Dion or Christina Aguilera. The "poppy" songs on Pure have a better chance. The viewers of that dance show sure loved "Dark Waltz"! They'd love the others, too! I think it’d be more "daring" for her to write most of her songs, because they’re so beautiful, and are fan favorites. I'm hoping she will write more with each new album, actually sing them at concerts! I can't figure out why she doesn't!  When I say I want her to be more popular here, I mean a popularity more like Sarah Brightman’s. Maybe she should do like she did, sing in big play productions. If only ALW would write that song for her! Well, she just might talk to him in just a few weeks...  |
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Post by Libby on Aug 29, 2008 20:28:43 GMT
I predict Hayley will catch on big in the US, but only after she has a hit movie song. If you remember, it was "Titanic" that made all the difference for Celine Dion. And a generation earlier, it took "Goldfinger" to put Shirley Bassey in the fast lane. One there, you're a hot commodity who can hit Leno, Letterman and Oprah with one hand tied behind your back. Or even sing the song at the Academy Awards!!!  So listen up Bedlam: Get Hayley a song in a huge movie, one with major stars and widespread appeal. Enough of this artsy stuff like "Merchant of Venice" and "Jekyll". Go for the Steven Speilberg- and James Cameron-level efforts. You do this and I guarantee she will have lasting fame in the States. But she is!! According to her page on the Bedlam Artists Agency website, she's been asked to have a small singing and acting role in a major film, starting in 2009! www.bedlamartistsagency.com/artist_hayley_westenra.php Let's just hope the movie is major enough!  |
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Post by larryhauck on Aug 30, 2008 2:30:30 GMT
Hayley will never achieve recognition in the U S without an aggressive U S agency.
Thats my opinion only. I've been wrong before.
Larry
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Post by larryhauck on Aug 30, 2008 2:43:28 GMT
Steve,
Do you really think Bedlam has the connections to get Hayley a part in a Blockbuster. And how would anyone know what was going to be a Blockbuster?
Past experience shows they do not have the contacts or they may be holding her back to gain more maturity. If that's the case I think they're wrong. She's ready.
When does her contract with Bedlam expire?
Larry
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Post by larryhauck on Aug 30, 2008 2:52:20 GMT
Martin,
The UK is a security blanket for Bedlam. In the US you must roll the dice. If they would I think Hayley would be a big winner for them.
Larry
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Post by Libby on Aug 30, 2008 3:49:06 GMT
Steve, Do you really think Bedlam has the connections to get Hayley a part in a Blockbuster. And how would anyone know what was going to be a Blockbuster? Past experience shows they do not have the contacts or they may be holding her back to gain more maturity. If that's the case I think they're wrong. She's ready. When does her contract with Bedlam expire? Well, I don't know, but they obviously aren't stopping her (not yet)from taking the role in that movie, to be filmed next year. They say its major, but I'm afraid it might be a major UK movie. If it is, it won't do her any good. The Flood song was gorgeous, but nobody outside of the UK will see the movie, so if they don't live there, and they're not already aware of Hayley, they'll never hear it. I think it's Decca that's the problem. I do hope she finds a better record company someday soon. One where she has more independence as far as song material, as well as where she lives, and can stop making 3 different versions of every album. |
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Post by roger on Aug 30, 2008 7:13:08 GMT
When does her contract with Bedlam expire? Hi Larry, I have never known any details of Hayley's contract with Bedlam but I doubt if it is a fixed term. It is highly likely to be open ended. Roger |
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