Classical Brit Awards 2007

[Martin]

I see that this annual event is confirmed for Thursday 3rd May at the Albert Hall. Does anybody know if this date clashes with an existing Hayley concert booking? If nominated for an award (which is quite possible with a new album release early next year) then I am sure that both Hayley's management team and Decca would want her to attend.

Martin

[roger]

Hi Martin,

That is amazing. I have just made the same discovery myself within the past half hour!

As Hayley's next album is not released until 2007, it would NOT qualify for an award. Each "awards year" runs from January 1st to December 31st of the previous year. So, in order to qualify, it would have to be released in the next eleven days which, sadly, is not going to happen.

As far as we know, Hayley is likely to be in America at the time as the Celtic Woman tour continues until the end of May.

We can only hope that her next album is nominated for the Album of the Year award in 2008!

Roger

[Martin]

Hi Roger
Thanks for the info. I guess then that Hayley would not want to break a concert engagement just to see Katherine win again! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif
- only joking as I believe they are good friends.

Best wishes
Martin

[gerrit]

Hi Roger,

Perhaps it isn't quite a sad thing that Hayley's album won't be released this year - with just 11 days to go, she could never hope to make enough impression to be in with a chance at the Classical Brits 2007.

And by releasing it some time next year, Hayley will have a far more realistic chance in 2008. Especially as I don't see how Katherine can keep up producing new albums at the rate she has been doing up till now .

I still don't understand why Pure missed out on the 2004 award - at that time it looked to me as the most outstanding candidate among the nominees.

Gerrit

[Dave]

Hi Gerrit and everyone,

If Hayley had been able to release her new album this week, she would sell 30,000 to 60,000 copies (because it's Christmas week) and would be eligible for the 2007 awards. If she released it next week, she would still sell 15,000 to 20,000 copies and again she would probably be eligible. The top 10 "new" albums will qualify and the no. 10 usually sells not much more than 10,000 copies - though it could be more this year.

The annoying thing for me is that the Official Charts Company insist on treating Odyssey Special edition like a new album because it is too different from the original version, the sales of each version were not added together, which hit its chart positions and eligibility for awards such as Gold Disc. But Classic FM will probably decide it is not a new album because it is too similar to the original. Somebody out there needs to learn the meaning of the word "consistency" and it makes me mad.

I think the main reason why Hayley did not win in 2004 is the same as why she did not win it last year or in 2005. Most of her friends and all of her family live in New Zealand and cannot vote. Multiple voting is allowed (as in Pop Idol and X Factor) but you must vote from inside the UK. This means that anyone from overseas has a huge disadvantage in any poll such as the Classic FM poll because obviously, friends and family are going to move heaven and earth and spend lots of money to get their boy (or girl) to win it. Because of Reality TV voting ( Pop Idol etc.) multiple voting is seen as perfectly legitimate in the UK.

Hayley's other disadvantage is that she spends long periods of time out of the Country (because at least half her CD sales are overseas) so she has a generally lower media profile than say Bryn or Katherine.

Even so, Hayley nearly won it last year and the longer she (mostly) lives here, the better her chances will be - if she stays popular. Roll on 2008

Cheers, Dave

[tonyw]

Hi

Thanks for alerting me that The Classical Brits Awards date has been annouced. I am sure that I have not been able to obtain tickets this early before. I have just booked 2 seats, described as "best available". This will be the 4th Awards I have been to. It is a great pity that Hayley will not be nominated or be attending this year. Will any other members be attending?

Tony

[roger]

gerrit said:

Hi Roger,

Perhaps it isn't quite a sad thing that Hayley's album won't be released this year - with just 11 days to go, she could never hope to make enough impression to be in with a chance at the Classical Brits 2007.

Gerrit

Hi Gerrit,

Everything you say is true but only in theory. The Album of the Year award is decided by public vote in about April. I suspect the vast majority of voters would not take into account the month in which they first heard the album so all that would be needed would be to qualify by it being released before the end of the year. Unfortunately, for the reasons given by Dave, it is very unlikely that any non-British artist would win.

I attended the 2004 awards and when Hayley's name was announced as one of the nominees, a cheer reverberated around the Albert Hall. That did not happen for anyone else. Before the event and during the interval, it was Hayley that everyone was talking about. The sales figures spoke for themselves and when she didn't win, I sensed that most of the audience were quite shocked.

It is absurd that Bryn's and Katherine's family and friends can vote endlessly, yet the Westenra family are not allowed to (unless they happen to be in the UK at the time). I tried to overcome that last year - I voted on their behalf but sadly it was not enough.

Roger

[roger]

tonyw said:

Will any other members be attending?

Tony

Hi Tony,

I have booked a ticket but, due to personal difficulties at home, I may well not be able to use it and I may not know for sure until the day.

I hope to see you there!

Roger

[gerrit]

Hi Dave and Roger,

Thank you for enlightening me in the voting system in use for the Classical Brits. For some reasonor other it never dawned on me the multiple voting is allowed and legitimate (possibly because I am not a UK resident myself ....) That certainly explains things!

Still - what is the solution? Allow people from anywhere in the world to vote? But wouldn't that mean the 'Brits' part in 'Classical Brits' becomes a bit empty? New Zealand has its own music awards - I'd think that there it will be an advantage to be a New Zealander. Here in Holland we have the Dutch Edison awards - very much the Dutch version of the Classical Brits, although a bit less crossover oriented. Janine Jansen (Dutch!) won the popular vote during the last two years - obviously being Dutch will be an advantage when runnng for the poplualr vote.

And to be honest, I would personally not like it if the popular vote for the Dutch Edisons would be a world wide vote - it reflects the Dutch scene and should remain to do so.

The Classical Brits popular vote therefore should continue tho reflect the British scene - and at least in 2004, I doubt if the popular vote was a genuine reflection of the British scene.

Anyway - based on the information you provided, I believe that the Fron Male Voice Choir could have the inside running for the 2007 popular vote - there's 60 choir members there, so plenty of family and friends to keep voting and voting ...

There is of course also the option of only allowing on vote - but ho is that going to be enforced, with the various methods of casting a vote?

I appreciate further input from you on this.

Gerrit

[roger]

Hi Gerrit,

Yes, in some ways it would be nice if the Classical Brit Awards remained truly British, with voting only from within the UK, just as the Dutch Edison awards seem to be truly Dutch. But if that wee the case, overseas artists would eventually lose interest in the event which would have an adverse effect on its popularity as a whole.

If worldwide voting was permitted, it would not necessarily make the event less British. They would still be voting for the album of their choice from the British charts.

So that brings us to the point of multiple voting. It is ironic that you can only vote online once (without deleting cookies which, presumably defeats the point of them introducing that rule and may therefore be considered cheating), but there is no such rule about telephone voting, probably because it is impossible to enforce.

Of the eights awards, only the 'Album of the Year' award is decided by public vote. Maybe a fairer way would be for the panel of judges who choose the other winners should decide this one too. But that takes away the public involvement and a lot of the fun.

The CBAs is a magnificent event, considered by many to be a highlight of the classical year. It seems such a shame that it is so heavily biased against performers from anywhere other then the UK.

Roger

[Dave]

Hello Roger and Gerrit and everyone,

Perhaps the fairest way for overseas performers would be to have a separate category for them? Overseas Artist Album of the Year!

Regarding the 2007 awards, yes I agree that Fron will have a very good chance of winning the Album of the Year because of their current huge popularity and as Gerrit said, there are so many of them!

But All Angels must have a chance too, even though their album hasn't done as well as the other two. Firstly the Welsh vote (never to be underestimated!) may be split between Fron and Katherine and secondly, All Angels are four schoolgirls from what seem to be affluent families and with schools to match. So lots of multiple votes will come from their (probably well off) school chums and families, I think!

Cheers, Dave

[roger]

Hi Dave,

You've just edited in the word "Artist", haven't ya?

I feel sure your first version suggested "Overseas Album of the Year" of which I would not be in favour as it would be perceived by some as the second division. Even if there was an award for best "overseas artist", would some performers (not necessarily Hayley) object because they were not eligible for what is likely to be seen as the main award?

I may well be influenced by further comments but, at the moment, I am inclined to leave the categories as they are but allow international voting. The name Classical BRIT awards could still be justified as the event takes place on British soil.

Roger

[roger]

I don't follow Aled or Bryn particularly closely but, assuming they have both released this year, the Welsh vote could be split FOUR ways. That could certainly benefit Hayley... only she's not in it.

Roger

[gerrit]

I have just booked my ticket at tickets.royalalberthall.com/season/production.aspx?id=8583&src=t&monthyear=5-2007

My seat is Stalls H11, seat 20, very, very close to the stage!

I was in a quandary whether to book or not - but I decided I would take a risk.

One reason I decided to take the risk is, that I have just learnt that Yulia Townsend will be arriving in London in the middle of January - and obviously her record company would be looking at ways to market her in the UK. A performance at the Classical Brits would fit in perfectly with that. And if Katherine were to win another Classical Brits award, then I have two very good reasons to attend !

By the way, I wouldn't mind a win by All Angels either - or the Fron Choir!

Cheers,

Gerrit

P.S. Roger and Dave, I want to 'digest' your comments first, before joining in with a reply to them

[Dave]

Hi Roger,

Yes you are probably right about Overseas Albums... there would be lots of problems (how to determine what is an overseas album or artist, for a start). So I withdraw it!

I've just remembered how they used to do it before Classic FM got involved - the year before Pure, I suspect. It was then the "Biggest Selling Classical Album of The Year" and that, I have felt for a long time, is how it should have remained. Public multiple-voting polls are pretty stupid things really, anything can happen and often does. Classical Music Industry Juries tend to be stuckup and insular - you'd never get Hayley, Katherine, All Angels or Fron Choir winning one of them.

So my proposal is for a return to the biggest selling classical album as people have to put their money where their mouth (or telephone finger) is so it's a truer reflection of public taste. It's also the way they do it in New Zealand. Of course, the result would be known in advance but that is already done for a few awards. I think each year's biggest seller deserves an award and should be invited to perform at the Classical Brits.

Incidentally, this year, the name of the biggest seller is still in the balance as it's going to be very close indeed between Fron and Katherine - I have exact sales numbers upto last Saturday and it is absolutely impossible to guess who will come out on top. Katherine is ahead at the moment but Fron Choir are chasing her like a train... both (also Angelis) will end the week at around 350,000.

I have not yet decided whether or not to attend next year's awards.

Cheers, Dave