Classical Brit Awards 2007

[roger]

dave said:

I think each year's biggest seller deserves an award and should be invited to perform at the Classical Brits.

Cheers, Dave

Hi Dave,

I would support that idea very much but it could be thwarted by another of their rules which states that no artist can perform at more than two consecutive award ceremonies.

Roger

[Richard]

Hello Roger and everybody!

I always thought rules were made so they can be changed as appropriate. That certainly seems to be the case with the Classical Brit Awards!

Best Wishes,

Richard

[Martin]

Hi everyone
I'm going to be a bit controversial here and make two comments for further discussion perhaps.

Firstly, the fact that Hayley is not a Brit is always going to be a disadvantage when it comes to public voting. We Brits can be fickle at times and would always want to vote for a UK artist irrespective of the quality of performance. It's a shame that, as I suspect, the public generally are not aware that Hayley has lived here now for over three years.

Secondly, the "Classical" tag for this event is ambiguous. Yes, there are many cross-over artists recognized at these annual awards on a regular basis but many of the voters may perceive Hayley as non-classical and therefore not vote for her. After all, the Awards are marketed as "The recognition of the outstanding achievements of classical musicians and the appreciation of classical music in the UK and around the world".

If Hayley continues to experiment with different types of music (which I sincerely hopes she does) then her cause will be made all that more difficult at these Awards.

Merry Christmas
Martin

[tonyw]

Hi Roger/Gerrit

My seats are H11 17/18. I hopet to see you at one of Hayley's concerts before then, surely there must be some promotional concerts for the new CD?

Anyway a Happy Xmas/ Holidays to all .

Tony

[gerrit]

Hi Tony,

So you are just two seats away from me! I also know who has seat H11 19 and H11 21. They are two members of the Katherine Jenkins forum!

I'm not sure I will be at a concert in the UK prior to that, as I always have to travel from Holland. I have to be a bit choosey in which concerts to attend - otherwise this would become a very expensive habit.

Gerrit

[nicola]

Hi all,

I see absolutely no problem with just UK voters. As Gerrit said, it is the Classical BRITS. It's about the albums popularity in this country. If the voting was opened to say, NZ, then others wouldn't get a chance. You may think that's how it is with Katherine, but hey, if Katherine is the one who is more popular in the UK than Hayley, then it is Katherine that should win the award. It's not a 'problem' or an 'issue': it's a poll for British citizens.

I don't think people should be saying 'Well, Katherine doesn't deserve these awards, because Hayley is more popular worldwide!'. It's not a worldwide vote, it's for Britain and Britain only. Long may it remain.

To suggest that Katherine only wins because her family and friends can vote for her repeatedly is nonsense. Katherine gets more votes from the public in general, because she is more popular. Simple.

In my humble opinion, Katherine doesn't deserve any of these awards, not because of the voting, but because her albums are just not quality, full stop. She's a poor example of a classical singer (she is very far away from being even an 'okay' classical singer).

I don't know what album 'Pure' was up against with Katherine, but 'Pure' deserved to pick it up. That album was pure quality (pun not intended) whilst Katherine's are rushed. At the end of the day though, it's a popularity vote, and it's a vote for the publics favourite album, it's not for the album that deserves the award.

Don't get me wrong, I like Katherine, but to suggest that she is anywhere near as good of a singer or quality of an artist than Hayley is just ridiculous. But popularity contests are never about that.

[postscript]

nicola said:

Hi all,

.... Don't get me wrong, I like Katherine, but to suggest that she is anywhere near as good of a singer or quality of an artist than Hayley is just ridiculous. But popularity contests are never about that.

That, Nicola, is precisely the problem and I include myself in that as I am gradually re-awakening my own critical faculties as a result of the last two years close interest in Hayley. Out in the morass of the world opinion (or UK) is an appalling ignorance! It is the dumbing-down effect in a different guise.

This is where I applaud those, including in admittedly only a small extent so far Hayley, artists who take time to explain and eliminate the 'mysteries' of the music culture/industry. The more the myths and 'secrets' are blown away the more the average punter wjill understand technique, appreciate differences and feel confident enough to stick in their own critical view. Then, perhaps as I recognised in myself at Harrogate, 'the also ran' is no longer acceptable. When your ears have learned to appreciate the best and understand why it is 'the best' objectively, as opposed to just being what the listener 'likes' or is accustomed to, second-rate simply will not do.

I cut the rest of quoting you, Nicola, so as not to bore but all that you said before the quote I took, I entirely agree with.
Peter S.

[postscript]

Following on from my earlier comment, KJ has just come out top on Classic fm's 2006 top 10 at No.1. All Angels made it at No.4 Well done girls, I'll be posting on AAI in a moment. Hayley? No.7 In my view pretty okay seeing Odyssey was split over two editions (a mistake in my view) and she is due for a new release.

As regards a comment, Nicola made earlier, regarding her lack of knowledge of the Fron, I can only refer to my own previous comments about choirs: that with the Mormon Tabernacle and the Russian Orthodox choirs which I regard as limited by specialisation, you cannot beat a Welsh choir. It is to do with the culture (as I discovered on my tour of Wales from one Hayley concert (Cardiff, magnificent choral voices, to another, Llandudno)). I have only heard one or two tracks from The Fron but their rendition of 'Shenandoah' which has a long history for me I felt was superb and the other two tra cks I have heard told me they embodied a good representation pf the best of Welsh `choirs.

Peter S.

[gerrit]

I have a few questions about the eligibility of albums for the Classical Brits.

Does the Odyssey Special Edition (which elsewhere on this forum has been classified as a new release for 2006) classify for this year's Classical Brits Best album of the year award? Or does the fact that it is a re-release disqualify it?

Do "Greatest hits" or "The best of" albums classify for this award?

The reason I am asking is that among the top 20 of best selling albums in 2006, quite a few are either:
a) released in 2005 or before (and therefore do not qualify for the 2007 CBA) (examples: Katherine Jenkins - Premiere, Second Nature and Living A Dream);
b) are compilations of "greatest hits" of a performer (examples: Russell Watson, Sarah Brightman, Aled Jones); such compilations consist of songs released prior to 2006, and in my view ought not to qualify);
c) Special editions of previously released albums (only Odyssey springs to mind). In my view, such albums ought not to qualify either.

If we take out albums from the above categories, then in the top 20 of best selling albums, there are at the most 8 albums that qualify. And the numbers 4-8 in that list together haven't sold 80 000 CD's between them, whereas number 3 (All Angels) on its own already sold 200,000+ albums.

That list would consist of
- Fron Male Voice Choir: Voices of the Valley (379,000)
- Katherine Jenkins: Serenade (350,000)
- All Angels: All Angels (201,000)
- Sting: Songs from the Labyrinth (41,800)
- Bryn Terfel: Tutto Mozart (17,400)
- Ecce Cor Meum: Paul McCartney (14,200)
- Classic FM presents: Alfie Boe (11,700)
- Libera: Angel Voices (9,800)

(figures quoted with thanks to Dave)

Now I think that normally, the ten best selling albums for the previous year are nominated - but really, an album that sells less than 10,000 copies - does that really deserve to be nominated? I think that out of the above list, only 3 albums are worthy of a nomination anyway - nominating the ohers is just not realistic.

What are other people's thoughts about this?

Gerrit

PS Take the "o" out of "Voices" in "Voices of the Valley" - and what do you get

[Richard]

Hello Gerrit!

I'm going to reserve judgement until I see the actual nominations, but I can tell you now which album I'd vote for from your list - All Angels! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif

Best Wishes,

Richard

[roger]

Hi Gerrit,

You raise some interesting questions which I suspect we cannot answer with any degree of certainty. As far as I know, the complete rules concerning eligibility have never been published. I would certainly hope (and I suspect) that "Greatest Hits" and "Best of" compilations would not be considered.

Unfortunately, perhaps, the sales figures count for very little once the album has been nominated. As we know from previous experience is that it is the public vote during the voting period that counts. Because of that, it is quite possible that an album that doesn't appear on your (Dave's) list could yet be nominated (which takes place in about March or April). All it would take is an appearance on prime time television before the nominations take place. We should bear in mind that the total number of votes is not vast; we are not talking millions.

At the moment, it does look like a three-horse race, but the voting public are fickle and anything could happen.

See you there and we will find out together!

Roger

[roger]

The CBAs, held on 3rd May are to be televised on Sunday 13 May on ITV1.

Roger

[Dave]

Hi guys,

Yes that list looks about right although I've since publishing it increased some of the estimated sales figures by a few thousand at the top end. I have not produced my final sales estimates yet as the Official Charts Company made a data error in the last week of 2006 and are having to re-calculate the sales of every album in the land for that week... so the numbers could change (slightly) again!

Yes there are only eight "definites" in the list - which originally comprised the Classic FM Top 30 best selling albums of 2006. When you drop soundtracks, multi-artist compilations, re-releases and "Best Of" albums, you cannot even fill the usual 10 nomination list.

Therefore, if they again choose 10 albums and exclude re-releases (like Odyssey, as they did with Pure) and if Russell Watson and Sarah Brightman are excluded as I expect (old music) they need two more albums which would probably be ones that sold in modest quantities earlier in 2006 but whose sales I did not track and were not in the charts at the end of the year. A few [possibilities are:

- Nicola Benedetti (Mendelssohn Violin Concerto) - sold around 10,000 and almost guaranteed to be in

- Dame Kiri te Kanawa who sold around 6,000 copies of "Kiri sings Karl (Jenkins)

- The Sixteen (Harry Christopher's) - Ikon

- St Thomas' Music Group - Taize Chant

- Alison Balsom - Trumpet Works

Can anyone think of more?

The qualifying date in the past has been sales for the calendar year ending December 31st so none of this year's new releases will count - unless they change the rules for Hayley! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif If they do (highly unlikely!) I think she could win, due to the timing of her new album release (if it counts as classical).

Oh, if the fanbases of Sting and The Beatles (well Paul McCartney) get organised, I think one of them could win it - we haven't seen previous pop singers in the list before, have we? Otherwise, Katherine is again probably favourite but Fron Choir (so many families to vote!) and All Angels (so many school friends to vote!) must be in with a good chance too. Anything could happen this year... and I too will be there!!!

Cheers, Dave

[postscript]

Just to let you know Dave that although you may well do all this for your own benefit anyway, all the hard work that goes into posts like yours are very much appreciated. I learn a lot from you and you give me for one (and I doubt I'm the only one) an experienced insight into something usually quite 'Beyond My Ken' (a show no one has mentioned in the 'What Makes You Laugh' thread, but I digress, of course!).

So, just for the record and reminder when occasionally you might feel down, a positive 'thank you' for your time, trouble and major contribution in your information sharing. thank you.
Peter S.