Hayley Singing A Capella

[postscript]

Well, hi folks, everyone.

I presumed to start this following the many compliments off the Il Divo boards of her a Capella singing of Amazing Grace. I asked that she should consider singing more a Capella and if so what else should she sing?.

My immediate personal favourite would be O Mio Babbino Caro. Especially her more muted version, where she allows the tune to carry the song as a rational pleading as opposed to the often highly emotional rendition more often given. A rendition to which I am personally more attuned due to historical significance to me of my first hearing it.

Then May It Be. Who else supports pushing her into just that wonderful voice being the 'be all and end of all'? The detail and the whole?

Peter

[stevemacdonald]

Many moons ago I suggested that Hayley should record an entire album a cappella, and not just to cut expenses.

I've backed away from that hope since then because of a blinding glimpse of the obvious that happened a few months ago. I realised that Hayley's a cappella sound takes on its full meaning only when it's nicely sandwiched between her full-blown accompanied songs. Something big must precede it and something grand must follow it for proper framing.

Although I'm sure she could do justice to "O Mio Babbino Caro", there are plenty of fine a cappella songs available to her without the gimmick of doing an aria that way, and "Amazing Grace" heads the list.

Back in 1975 I saw Olivia Newton-John in concert get her hugest ovation of the night when her considerable backing band left the stage so she could sing "Lord Help Us To Survive" in the perfect stillness of the packed auditorium.

Another superb a cappella piece is "Mining for Gold" as done by Margo Timmons of the Cowboy Junkies.

I recommend that Hayley explore the vast a cappella songbook for suitable material to weave into a full concert. She got the chops to make many of these treasures her own.

[postscript]

stevemacdonald said:

Many moons ago I suggested that Hayley should record an entire album a cappella, and not just to cut expenses.

I've backed away from that hope since then because of a blinding glimpse of the obvious that happened a few months ago. I realised that Hayley's a cappella sound takes on its full meaning only when it's nicely sandwiched between her full-blown accompanied songs. Something big must precede it and something grand must follow it for proper framing.

Although I'm sure she could do justice to "O Mio Babbino Caro", there are plenty of fine a cappella songs available to her without the gimmick of doing an aria that way, and "Amazing Grace" heads the list.

Back in 1975 I saw Olivia Newton-John in concert get her hugest ovation of the night when her considerable backing band left the stage so she could sing "Lord Help Us To Survive" in the perfect stillness of the packed auditorium.

Another superb a cappella piece is "Mining for Gold" as done by Margo Timmons of the Cowboy Junkies.

I recommend that Hayley explore the vast a cappella songbook for suitable material to weave into a full concert. She got the chops to make many of these treasures her own.

Oh boy! Thank you Steve for such a wonderful positive response.to my initiative.

You are quite right about the framing and the contrast with other items. The very point I made regarding concert performance, she couldn't really do without some backing between 'a cappella' renditions for variety in the programme. I also think her voice would need the rest! For the same reason, you are right that a CD of only 'a cappella' would lack the necessary variety. After all, Hayley has enough difficulty balancing the various songs she does want in any particular CD offering!

None the less, it looks as though opening this thread was worthwhile and may stimulate interesting debate. Possibly pushing Hayley to do it at least a couple of times per performance--just for starters?

As regards your suggestions, I'm easy. its just the beauty of her solo voice.

Peter

[stevemacdonald]

Peter, I see you've "quoted" me but changed the way I spelled "a cappella". Is this a British thing, like the way you spell "colour" and "programme" to our "color" and "program"? Most people in the states use "a cappella" -- which is not incorrect -- and that's what I prefer to use in my posts.

[postscript]

stevemacdonald said:

Peter, I see you've "quoted" me but changed the way I spelled "a cappella". Is this a British thing, like the way you spell "colour" and "programme" to our "color" and "program"? Most people in the states use "a cappella" -- which is not incorrect -- and that's what I prefer to use in my posts.

My apologies. The misinterpretation of your quote was accidental. I try to remember to use the spellcheck facility on the ProBoard programme before posting to eliminate my typing errors and TRY to keep English English and not interfere with Americanisms to which the spellchecker seems inclined.

I don't have Groves Dictionary of Music (I think it runs to 15 volumes(?)but I do have The New Oxford Companion to Music. That gives the following quote (abbreviated) 'Cappella, Italian, sometimes misspelt 'capella').

However, the key point is interfering with your quotation which was purely accidental due to running through the board spellchecker and not realising it was also going through the quote. Having just run the spellchecker again the ProBoard checker wants 'Capella'!

ADDENDUM. This also brings to light the title of the thread is misspelt BUT the ProBoard spellchecker insists it isn't! Altough it correctly wants a capital 'C'!

At one time my English spelling was very good, always at least 19 out of 20 at school. Since I started writing in both Amercian English as well as British Engflish (I work in printing and publishing) my general ability to spell has simply gone to the dogs!

My apologies. sorry.

Peter.

[Dave]

Hi Steve and Peter,

What a fascinating subject.... how to spell a capella!

Peter, I agree that a cappella is the most common spelling and Steve, it is in many circles in the UK, too. But I disagree strongly with the implication of The New Oxford companion to Music:

'Cappella, Italian, sometimes misspelt 'capella').

This means I also disagree strongly with Wikipedia which says the same thing. In my view, a capella is an alternative spelling not a misspelling! English is a dynamic language and things change; sometimes there have always been alternative spellings, scientific and technical terms included.

I think the description at Singers.com is the correct one:

A Capella?

Some musical dictionaries indicate the Italian a cappella is preferred over the Latin a capella (one "p") yet both are technically correct. Why do those dictionaries muddy the waters with two spellings?

The phrase was first used in Italian Catholic churches, where Latin was the language for sacred text. Thus, the Latin spelling for 'in the style of the chapel' - a capella - has some historical basis. However, most other musical terms - forte, accelerando, and many others - are Italian in origin. Since the Italian spelling is more consistent with other musical terms, it has been used more frequently.

[/size][/quote]
Some of the websites insisting on only one correct spelling of a capella leave themselves wide open to accusations of pedantry - something that has no place in a dynamic English language. My own preferred spelling is the Latin derivation 'a capella' but it's not because I prefer Latin to Italian; it's simply because I think it looks neater that way.

I'm impressed that Proboards spellchecker, presumably American, likes my preferred spelling So do most people whose writings have appeared at the BBC. A search of the BBC website reveals 410 occurrences of 'a capella' and only 214 occurrences of 'a cappella'. However, both are correct - whatever Wikipedia says.

Now I've got that off my chest, I can start to think about the subject itself, rather than how to spell it.

Cheers, Dave

[postscript]

Further correction to 'a cappella'.

It is now morning as opposed to befuddled late last night and in the cold light of day, of course the 'capital' only relates to the sentence structure, although that is the one that comes to prominence on the ProBoard spellchecker.

Last night it didn't occur to me to use another dictionary, it being a musical term but in fact none of my 'ordinary' dictionaries give the word at all, including Webster's, which is to American English what Oxford is to British English. More particularly, since it comes from the Italian, why, with the Italian influence in America would an American (presumably(?)) spellchecker not spell an Italian word the Italian way?

The facility to modify should still exist, so i shall go back and try and re-run your quote, Steve. This leaves the problem of the misspelling in the title of the thread which I believe can only be altered by admin for the obvious reasons of maintaining structure. Can we change the title, please, someone on admin?

Interestingly the spell check isn't working at 07:13a.m. British Summer Time (but actually winter this moning!).

BUT! Oxford contradicts itself! Checking further back under the origins of the word 'chapel', where it gives German options of 'Capelle' or 'Kapelle' as well as the Itaiian, it actually states in the text 'cappella' (or 'capella'). So, perhaps we are making too much fuss and all that needs to be done is my courtesy correction to your quote? Any other opinions?

FURTHER, at 07:23a.m. the spell check is working and it definitely only gives the option of 'Capella' with a capital!

Peter

[postscript]

Following on, but developing the musical aspect, as opposed to the spelling of the musical aspect, The New Oxford Companion to Music further explains the 'a cappella' aspect by stating: ...'in the church style', meaning that a piece of choral music is to be sung unaccompanied or if accompanied, the instrument, probably an organ, should simply double the voice parts).'

This reminds me of Hayley when she was in Liverpool. I spent three days wandering around and one of my visits was to the Anglican cathedral. I visited when the organ was playing and it was playing a piece completely in the upper registers. Immediately, I thought of Hayley's voice soaring into the giddy heights of that cathedral, both unaccompanied and with that organ. It is a vast instrument and has good body in those higher notes which I felt would blend beautifully with her voice. I would love her to consider that cathedral when she next determines to play in abbeys and churches. But that would require very good publicity to fill that space!

Peter

[stevemacdonald]

So the original intention of "a Capella" would be "in the style of the chapel", right? That would ultimately mean no electronic amplification either. I cannot imagine a more wonderful experience than to hear Hayley sing by herself in a chapel without a mic -- just her natural voice the way it was meant to be heard. That would have to be the ne plus ultra of a Capella.

[Andrew]

Hi Steve,

You are absolutely right there... Hayley singing A Capella in a chapel would produce the ultimate sound!!! WOW....

I look forward to the day/ night when many of us can witness that!

Regards,

Andrew

[Richard]

Hello everybody!

I still clearly remember the time Hayley made a guest appearance in a charity concert at Wormwood Scrubs Pony Centre. She sang "Pokarekare Ana" and "Amazing Grace" a capella, and for me her singing was far more effective than the rest of the concert, where a choir and soloists sang well-known opera arias accompanied by a piano!

Best Wishes,

Richard

[Dave]

postscript said:

BUT! Oxford contradicts itself! Checking further back under the origins of the word 'chapel', where it gives German options of 'Capelle' or 'Kapelle' as well as the Itaiian, it actually states in the text 'cappella' (or 'capella'). So, perhaps we are making too much fuss and all that needs to be done is my courtesy correction to your quote? Any other opinions?
Peter

Hi Peter, I said what i think about it in the post just above yours. I think a capella is an alternative spelling with its roots in Latin. It's only a misspelling of the Italian, not of the Latin (which arguably is legitimate) so there's no need to change the heading!

Cheers, Dave

[postscript]

dave said:

Hi Steve and Peter,

What a fascinating subject.... how to spell a capella!

Peter, I agree that a cappella is the most common spelling and Steve, it is in many circles in the UK, too. But I disagree strongly with the implication of The New Oxford companion to Music:

'Cappella, Italian, sometimes misspelt 'capella').

This means I also disagree strongly with Wikipedia which says the same thing. In my view, a capella is an alternative spelling not a misspelling! English is a dynamic language and things change; sometimes there have always been alternative spellings, scientific and technical terms included.

I think the description at Singers.com is the correct one:

A Capella?

Some musical dictionaries indicate the Italian a cappella is preferred over the Latin a capella (one "p") yet both are technically correct. Why do those dictionaries muddy the waters with two spellings?

The phrase was first used in Italian Catholic churches, where Latin was the language for sacred text. Thus, the Latin spelling for 'in the style of the chapel' - a capella - has some historical basis. However, most other musical terms - forte, accelerando, and many others - are Italian in origin. Since the Italian spelling is more consistent with other musical terms, it has been used more frequently.

[/size][/quote]
Some of the websites insisting on only one correct spelling of a capella leave themselves wide open to accusations of pedantry - something that has no place in a dynamic English language. My own preferred spelling is the Latin derivation 'a capella' but it's not because I prefer Latin to Italian; it's simply because I think it looks neater that way.

I'm impressed that Proboards spellchecker, presumably American, likes my preferred spelling So do most people whose writings have appeared at the BBC. A search of the BBC website reveals 410 occurrences of 'a capella' and only 214 occurrences of 'a cappella'. However, both are correct - whatever Wikipedia says.

Now I've got that off my chest, I can start to think about the subject itself, rather than how to spell it.

Cheers, Dave[/quote]

Dave,

I think you have made a superb contribution to this and I have bookmarked the 'Primaril'y' web site for any future research.

Thank you for your time on it.

Peter

[postscript]

stevemacdonald said:

So the original intention of "a Capella" would be "in the style of the chapel", right? That would ultimately mean no electronic amplification either. I cannot imagine a more wonderful experience than to hear Hayley sing by herself in a chapel without a mic -- just her natural voice the way it was meant to be heard. That would have to be the ne plus ultra of a Capella.

So absolutely right Steve. Now, if I may incorproate comments from various threads (WITHOUT HESITATION OR DEVIATION!) I would observe:

1. Liverpool Anglican catthedral both with and without the organ, which allows for diversity through an evening's programme with organ solos--I suppose one could add the choir for added varietyy...!

2. Its pacing her voice--very good word for Hayley that 'pacing'.

3. And I don't think this is (initially) justification for a separate thread. What are people's views on location? What chapel (if a particular one) did you have in mind, Steve?

Certainly a small chapel (Chapel Royal, Windsor?) would be nice but do you know the Anglican Liverpool Cathedral? It is vast and her voice echoing up at the transepts would be magnificent. I don't have the literature to hand but I think the apex of the arches in the nave are 170 feet high, so the roof at the transept will be higher.

Let me digress for the benefit of our diverse worldwide audience.

My reason for chasing Hayley round the country last autumn/winter and shortly, this summer, is because she is performing at locations I either have not previously visited and always intended to do so, or have not visited for many years (e.g. Wales).

Last year, just to attend Hayley at the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Hall i spent three days in Liverpool, a city undertaking a 100million pound re-investment project.

In the 'older part' of Liverpool, is Hope Street. At one end you have Liverpool Cathedral (Anglican). About 1.25miles to the other end is the Catholic Metropolitan Cathedral. Almost halfway between the two is the Royal Philharmonic's glorious art déco (1930s) concert hall--the only orchestra in the UK to own its own concert hall.

The Anglican Cathedral was started at the turn of the twentieth century, the designer winning a public competition at the age of 25!

Many may be familiar with John Piper's work in stained glass at Coventry Cathedral. What is fascinating about these two cathedrals, the Metropolitan being built in the last quarter of the twentieth century, is the way two totally different architects have used space but most importantly over all, have used light and colour through totally different uses of stained glass. One, pre-empting (to a degree) Piper, and the other, post-Piper and closer to his mould/concepts. It is also a circular building, some times referred to as the 'wigwam'.

Liverpool is not the sort of city you exect to encourage visiting (with all due respect to Liverpudlians) but especially in a couple of years' time, i do recommend it, if you are city-orientated and want to visit architecture, art galleries and also for the shopper (when present massive building projects are completed).

I claim no particular insight into this appreciation of architecture but four years on a town planing committee! I woke up late to awareness of municipal planning, due to being a rebel that helped throw out a town council and put ourselves (well, the town did) in its place.

I was fortunate in being taught awareness of town planning through one rebel being an ex Slade student and another rebel being a former Head of the School of Art at Manchester University, as well as being a national BTEC Examiner. But he was a Liverpudlian who had rubbed shoulders with Lennon and McCartney in his student days.

McCartney was at the grammar school while Lennon was supposed to have been at the art school but was mostly in the pub, especially during the lunch time when he met up with Paul.

This was why I was encouraged to spend a few days in Liverpool. So, even if Hayley re-appears at the Philharmonic Hall and please, Hayley, take note of the discssion on this board--I remember mentioning the Anglican Cathedral as a possibe venue to Jill and for some sight-seeing but I believe you were all shooting off fairly quickly the next day--.
I recommend you consider teh venue, but it will require well organised promotion to make it work. you need a full cathedral.

At the moment Liverpool is not car-friendly but everything worth visiting is within fair walking distance (without the need to be a Falklands 'yomper'). The Holiday Inn on the waterfront amongst rejuvenated docklands is nicely situated with boutiques, good choice of restaurants and is reasonably priced.

My recommendation, don't just go for a Hayley concert there, take a short break too.

Have I digressed too much Roger, but then, why should we not promote the UK as Hayley so magnificently promotes NZ?

Peter

[roger]

postscript said:

Have I digressed too much Roger, but then, why should we not promote the UK as Hayley so magnificently promotes NZ?

Peter

Hi Peter,

The answer to your question is because we are an international forum. Of course promoting the UK is acceptable if it is particularly relevant to the subject under discussion (as would be the promotion of any other country) but still it should be kept to a minimum. If more needs to be said, there is always the Off Topic board where, as Keith used to say, "off topic is on topic"!

This response only falls within the subject of "a cap(p)ella" because it is being made with no musical accompaniment whatsoever!

Roger