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Post by Mr Yang on Dec 30, 2007 13:39:32 GMT
Wow! Little Hayley is so lovely! Can't imagine a little girl now changes into a big singing star.
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Post by milewalker on Dec 30, 2007 17:21:38 GMT
Hi Stephany, Yes i saw that too , it made me quite sad  . I guess she wants to move on but the past will always be very dear to me ,I enjoyed the talent quest era, Belinda I can understand why you feel that way Belinda - these "before she was famous" videos must serve as a powerful reminder of the days when Hayley was the property of New Zealand alone. But there was a reason I threw out that last comment in my post above. Based on the short samples of her demo album which are available, Hayley was by then right on the cusp of being a professional level singer. Despite this, she clearly has no desire to allow her work at that time to gain a wider exposure. If she doesnt want her early "good" singing to be heard, it only stands to reason that videos like this and Lullaby might border on mortifying from her point of view. Hayley was not a prodigy in the sense that we normally use the term. I think she may have actually been a bit more forward as a child than her image now suggests, but I dont think that anything special really manifested in her voice until later. (It is interesting that Jill said she didnt notice until Hayley was arround eight years old) The earliest video which caught my eye suggesting she had geninue potential was "A Groovy Kind of Love" where I think she was 11 or so. The point is that she wasnt a "natural" in the sense that a lot of people seem to think that Connie Talbot is (though I personally dont see that yet). She developed into the singer she is today through dedication and hard work. You see, Roger, I do have some respect for her feelings  I am just approaching her from a very different angle than most people do on this forum. Jon |
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Post by roger on Dec 30, 2007 17:55:39 GMT
Based on the short samples of her demo album which are available, Hayley was by then right on the cusp of being a professional level singer. Despite this, she clearly has no desire to allow her work at that time to gain a wider exposure. If she doesnt want her early "good" singing to be heard, it only stands to reason that videos like this and Lullaby might border on mortifying from her point of view. Hi Jon, It was the family - as opposed to Hayley in particular - who expressed the wish that the demo album should not become widely available but that had nothing to do with the quality of her performance. It is because the album, which was only intended as a memento for family and friends, represents a time long before Hayley became widely known. For understandable reasons, they would like to hang on to those private memories before she became (for want of a better expression) public property. This video, on the other hand, was a public event and it is unreasonable for any artists to attempt to suppress it some years later. Roger |
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Steve H
Global Moderator
HWI Management Team / Official Site Photographer & Videographer
Posts: 1,756
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Post by Steve H on Dec 30, 2007 18:36:35 GMT
The point is that she wasn't a "natural" in the sense that a lot of people seem to think that Connie Talbot is (though I personally don't see that yet). She developed into the singer she is today through dedication and hard work. You see, Roger, I do have some respect for her feelings I am just approaching her from a very different angle than most people do on this forum. Jon Hi Jon, Whilst I agree that Hayley is where she is today through dedication and hard work, it is also because of that raw talent and gift she has shown since a very early age, at an age far earlier than most youngsters voices start to mature. Why do we constantly have to compare Hayley to other talented youngsters and 'pick' at her earlier performances, lets just appreciate where she is now, enjoy the present, and look forward to her bright future as one of the leading classical crossover artists of our time. Hayley has earned our respect on this forum, and you must therefore understand why your angle is not widely understood. Steve H |
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Post by milewalker on Dec 30, 2007 19:25:19 GMT
The point is that she wasn't a "natural" in the sense that a lot of people seem to think that Connie Talbot is (though I personally don't see that yet). She developed into the singer she is today through dedication and hard work. You see, Roger, I do have some respect for her feelings I am just approaching her from a very different angle than most people do on this forum. Jon Hi Jon, Whilst I agree that Hayley is where she is today through dedication and hard work, it is also because of that raw talent and gift she has shown since a very early age, at an age far earlier than most youngsters voices start to mature. Why do we constantly have to compare Hayley to other talented youngsters and 'pick' at her earlier performances, lets just appreciate where she is now, enjoy the present, and look forward to her bright future as one of the leading classical crossover artists of our time. Hayley has earned our respect on this forum, and you must therefore understand why your angle is not widely understood. Steve H With all due respect Steve, there are four or five kids in my local church choir who can sing as well as Hayley does on "Ben" in my opinion. She has the cuteness of childhood there - but I see nothing special at that point. I therefore must ask exactly what gift is that she is supposed to be displaying in this video. In my opinion her voice did not mature faster than is common - it was simply better at the point in which it began to mature. I do respect Hayley. In fact I respect her enough to be critical at times - that takes energy that I usually dont spend - and I do this for no other reason that that I care. By her own admission, Hayley isnt perfect, and she doesnt have a perfect voice - and it is my personal belief that she could be getting a better return on the massive investment she has made in her career than she is - though of course I have no way of knowing this for certain, because I do not know her. How can you define anything except with respect to something else? I assume you like Hayley better than most other singers. Doesnt that mean that you have made such a comparison yourself, even if you are not accustomed to thinking in those terms? What I do know is that there is more than enough adulation going around - she is hip deep in it already. If I am critical sometimes, it is because my view of her possible potential is higher. I am not going to apologize because I want more for Hayley than some others may. Jon |
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Post by milewalker on Dec 30, 2007 20:08:48 GMT
Based on the short samples of her demo album which are available, Hayley was by then right on the cusp of being a professional level singer. Despite this, she clearly has no desire to allow her work at that time to gain a wider exposure. If she doesnt want her early "good" singing to be heard, it only stands to reason that videos like this and Lullaby might border on mortifying from her point of view. Hi Jon, It was the family - as opposed to Hayley in particular - who expressed the wish that the demo album should not become widely available but that had nothing to do with the quality of her performance. It is because the album, which was only intended as a memento for family and friends, represents a time long before Hayley became widely known. For understandable reasons, they would like to hang on to those private memories before she became (for want of a better expression) public property. This video, on the other hand, was a public event and it is unreasonable for any artists to attempt to suppress it some years later. Roger Heh - they pressed 1000 of them. Must be a large family and a whole lot of friends The flaw I see in your argument Roger is that they also sent this "private" work to record companies as a demo - which suggests a much more professionally oriented objective. At that point, it can hardly be considered private anymore even if that was its original intention. 1000 copies is 6 percent of a platinum release in New Zealand. I would even venture a guess that in that market a known classical artist might not get a bigger release. That also sounds a whole lot more like testing the waters for interest than anything which I would define as credibly "private" now. The point is that by that time, she and her family had a fairly clear idea that there might be professional potential there. I doubt very much that they had such a clue when Hayley was singing "Ben". Are you saying that Hayley was "unreasonable" in that quote from her book? And here I thought I was being critical  Jon PS - this was still "in edit" at the point in which Roger responded below.... |
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Post by roger on Dec 30, 2007 20:16:01 GMT
That is true Jon, but the additional 1000 were only produced when one of their friends agreed to fund it. That doesn't change the fact that it was originally intended for family and friends only.  Roger |
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Post by James on Dec 31, 2007 1:11:55 GMT
I hope that Hayley isnt too embarrased by this....Jon Hum. That makes me think of what Hayley said in her autobiography page 34. Stephany  My impression when I read that line about visitors to Christchurch was that she was referring more to videos of her busking than of talent quests? Maybe there is also the fact that all famous people have to deal with old acquaintances who would sell footage and stories of them as youngsters. I can understand Hayley’s sentiments though because, apart from other considerations, the quality of these home recordings cannot be monitored and controlled. In fact, one of the things that amazes me about this forum is the number of “unofficial” videos people make, especially at recent concerts. Yes, we all enjoy watching them, but in terms of quality, it’s not like watching an “official” recording like the Live in NZ DVD. (Don't take this as criticism, and keep them coming - I have several downloaded to my PC! ) Many performers would get precious over such footage if they couldn’t control the quality, although I know that it is harder to police at venues due to modern smaller cameras and camera phones. The problem with the internet is it’s so hard to police, and since we know Hayley is aware of some of the HWI videos I guess she doesn’t have a problem with them and sees them as good publicity. However, I would imagine that puts more pressure on every show knowing there’s a chance someone may record it? There have been well known instances of artists wanting such videos/recordings removed, and this year an official record company release of a Deep Purple concert was withdrawn from sale after the band urged fans not to buy it as they had not given their blessing and it was one of their worst ever shows for which they did not want to be remembered. Back to 7 year old Hayley - in terms of quality of performance, yes it’s really cute, but I agree that it didn’t really signal what was to come. There are often youngsters who sing such as in school plays, but don’t continue for whatever reason. I guess Hayley took it more seriously and was nurtured through learning instruments, through musical theatre and parental support and hence developed and improved at her own speed. The most important thing is probably the fact that at such a young age Hayley was performing and getting used to being on stage and that experience would surely be invaluable for later years? Singing voices generally peak at around 30-40 years old (I wonder how good Hayley will be at 30?). There have been a few virtuoso instrumentalists of that age, e.g. Lang Lang, but often musical youngsters fall by the wayside, or are pushed so hard by their parents that they resent it and rebel, or it causes trouble in later years (think Michael Jackson). In Hayley’s case, it was a natural talent spotted at a young age and nurtured, but only because that’s what she wanted and developed at her own pace. I’m more concerned about Connie Talbot, who is now in the public eye and will quickly go from being the cute 6 year old and will need to develop rapidly to assuage the critics. My personal feeling is that she is too young for an international profile and the pressure is on as she will be growing in the public eye. Hayley at least did her development at local talent quests and shows and was a few years older before she had a significant regional and nationwide profile and it allowed her to find her feet at her own pace. I don’t think we can really compare the two as the recording of Hayley is on a handheld camcorder that’s probably 15 years old while Connie has been recorded on modern TV sound equipment and so there will always be an unfavourable comparison in terms of quality. (Maybe Belinda can comment better as she actually saw Hayley live at that age?) James |
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Joe
Administrator
Supporting Hayley since 2003!
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Post by Joe on Dec 31, 2007 1:34:33 GMT
Hi all, I found this video truly delightful! Hayley hits a lot of the notes spot-on.  Joe |
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Post by milewalker on Dec 31, 2007 2:19:04 GMT
Heh
That she does Joe - that she does.....
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Post by Stephany on Dec 31, 2007 7:04:37 GMT
[Back to 7 year old Hayley - in terms of quality of performance, yes it’s really cute, but I agree that it didn’t really signal what was to come. There are often youngsters who sing such as in school plays, but don’t continue for whatever reason. I guess Hayley took it more seriously and was nurtured through learning instruments, through musical theatre and parental support and hence developed and improved at her own speed. Very interesting and well-put, James. This is the reason I am so impressed with the teacher who spotted Hayley's talent and gave her the first role in 'The Littlest Star'. Who knows what might have happened if she hadn't? Stephany |
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Post by milewalker on Dec 31, 2007 7:42:22 GMT
Hi James and Stephany, Thank you very much for a thought provoking post James! Stephany - It is entirely possible that Hayley actually has promise here that is not detectable from an old amature video - but might well be very clear to a person who had the right ear hearing her live. But I think it is more likely that she got these early chances because she had other attributes which may have been thought more important at that age. She isnt afraid - and she can sing pretty loud , and allowing for the heavy accent, I think a Kiwi would have no trouble at all understanding what she is singing. There is nothing about these early videos to suggest shyness...... I have dealt with church concerts involving children. It helps when they are poised enough to not throw up on stage  (I saw it happen once). We are all agreed that Hayley was cute here I think - that alone may have been enough to get her the gigs James, I share your concerns about Connie - and quite honestly wish her well. I am thankful that the Westenra's did take what seems to me to be the ideal approach towards Hayley and her dream - they knew when to nurture her, and almost as important, when and how to let go. Beyond the understandable pride they must feel, they seem amazingly unfazed by Hayleys' rise - Hayley is very lucky. Most families dont fare as well. If I am reading the tea leaves correctly here, Hayley's talent manifested itself over a period of some years - and I think that the release of that demo album was probably the turning point for them. I dont doubt that they originally thought it would be private, but then were confronted by the fact that people were actually interested in hearing her sing by that point. Jon |
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Post by dazza on Dec 31, 2007 10:03:26 GMT
Hi Everyone,
What an adorable video that is, a fantastic find Dori.
Dazza
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Post by comet on Dec 31, 2007 12:07:09 GMT
Hi Folks, I know we have drifted way off topic here, I have a copy of the very first album which I play quite often when I get the house to myself but if I were demonstrating Hayley's current abilities for visitors I would let them hear the album Prayer which I believe shows Hayley at her ( Current and improving ) BEST. I have just got the house to myself so I am off to PLAY IT AGAIN ! LOUD so listen carefully comet |
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Martin
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HWI Management Team
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Post by Martin on Dec 31, 2007 13:49:21 GMT
I completely agree with you Jon. I have a friend who is an opera singer, and she told me that everyone is born pitch-perfect, but it's whether or not they choose to develop it from a very young age or not. Hi Dori I must admit I have nevre heard this said before. Quite astonishing! It intrigues me therefore how a person then unlearns being pitch-perfect? Happy New Year Martin |
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I am just approaching her from a very different angle than most people do on this forum.
(I saw it happen once). We are all agreed that Hayley was cute here I think - that alone may have been enough to get her the gigs 
