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Post by Libby on Jan 26, 2014 7:01:10 GMT
You know, I was looking over Nicola's list again, and I will agree; many of those songs are overdone. But for me, if a certain cover of a song is truly unique, then I think it discounts itself from that category. Take Katherine Jenkins' version of "Bailero." That's one of the songs on there. Her version is so different from any other I've heard, and I actually wouldn't mind Hayley doing "Bailero" like that.  -Taylor  Exactly what I was trying to convey in one of my previous posts. Many of the overdone songs are very lovely songs in themselves. Making the song different (but not TOO different) is great, but also if the singer blows you away with their voice or emotional interpretation, or both, then whether or not the song is overdone means nothing. But it's true, I do prefer an artist who does a lot more different and unique stuff, like Mario Frangoulis, Mary Jess, and Josh Groban. Mario turned a popular radio hit from the past into a stunningly beautiful crossover song. The addition of Justin Hayward was a huge selling point for me, of course, and the choir backing was especially haunting. It was great to hear it sung in Italian, too. However, it was his powerful voice and passionate interpretation that really did if for me, in the end. Josh Groban, although he never sings any standards anymore, he still sings several songs in other languages that make his style still sort of on the verge of crossover. Some of these songs he even wrote, in particular the Portuguese song. The song Sincera on his latest album is very beautiful, and parts of it almost sound like a hymn. So, there's nothing saying that a songwriter can only write a certain style of music. Surely an artist who is talented at songwriting could manage to write in a style that might please her record company. Something similar to Pure, say? She even indicated in that interview in Thailand at the end of 2012 that her newer songs (which she may have assumed would be coming fairly soon, before Hushabye interfered) might be a bit like the style of Who Painted the Moon Black (which they had playing the background almost the whole time, if I remember). Mary Jess may not be very classical, but her singing style and voice are somewhat suited to classical, though her songs are more contemporary pop, I guess? She writes some really nice songs, and she uses her voice in a way that can stir people. That song Glorious... it's not just her voice there, but also the music. It's such a powerfully emotional piece, it's almost like something right out of heaven. It's really that moving, especially when you listen and think about the significance of the lyrics. Even the new talent-show group of Forte have all covers on their debut album, but most of which were songs they performed on AGT. A couple of the songs were unique crossover versions of pop songs. Often I've seen talent show singers do an album without any of the songs they did on the talent show. I actually think it's smart to put songs that you sang on a show on your album. People voted for them because of those songs, so it makes sense to use those familiar songs to boost sales. Hopefully in the future, Forte can have newer songs written for them (if they're not into songwriting themselves, that is). I hate to say this, but not very many of Hayley's songs have ever touched me personally. The only thing most of them have done is stun me with her vocals, the beauty of the melody, the lovely lyrics. Not many of them have ever stirred me emotionally. Of course there are several exceptions. Songbird, Majesty, and On the Wings of Time are among the few that have. Whispers in a Dream and Amalia do as well, how could I forget those. Whispers is actually another one that sounds like it comes right out of heaven. Though nowhere near as stirring as Glorious. And even in that list of Hayley songs, there's really only one song that really touches me personally. I think (or hope) that someday I may be able to relate more to some of her songs, though. If she were to write more songs like Talk to Me, that could reach people in a different way than her previous songs ever have. As for all the mainstream pop songs out there, I've noticed that many of them are actually written by many different people, and yet don't even have that many lyrics. How do 6 people write one song? |
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Post by comet on Jan 26, 2014 13:45:22 GMT
How do 6 people write one song? I think we did something similar here before with Rory. You can gather 6 saints and sinners in a room and use a big notebook or a drywipe board. The more diverse the life experience the better. You can start more than one song at a time if you wish. It helps if you have one or two musicians and instruments. Just start with a line or a word. I'll nick some from another song (the first five) and add three myself, then just let every one add to it or subtract from it. The first time ever I heard your voice. |
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Post by martindn on Jan 26, 2014 18:23:23 GMT
Hi Comet,
Will that use the same tune as Meav (And Roberta Flack)? If dom it's been overdone too. I'll stick with Meav's version.
Martin D
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Post by Libby on Jan 26, 2014 21:04:38 GMT
Well, it's great that so many people can write a hit pop song together and make so much money off of it. No doubt there are many great songs out there that were written for singers who were successful from it. But I'll take an artist who can write a song all by themselves, or mostly by themselves, any day. That's my whole point about that.
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Jillian
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Post by Jillian on Jan 27, 2014 13:05:45 GMT
As for all the mainstream pop songs out there, I've noticed that many of them are actually written by many different people, and yet don't even have that many lyrics. How do 6 people write one song? Hi Libby, I would recommend reading this article here: www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/03/26/120326fa_fact_seabrook?currentPage=all It's quite a long read, but I found it fascinating. It focuses on Ester Dean, who has written a large proportion of Rihanna's hit songs. Well, it's great that so many people can write a hit pop song together and make so much money off of it. No doubt there are many great songs out there that were written for singers who were successful from it. But I'll take an artist who can write a song all by themselves, or mostly by themselves, any day. That's my whole point about that. Oh absolutely. But the reason it doesn't properly happen all that often is that to be that independently creative -- and on a schedule too -- is extremely hard and a very rare talent. Truth be told, sometimes singers who have been known claim 'writing' credits often don't do very much at all with the songs. It's more fiddling around with the lyrics a little bit and then doing a deal with the real writer so the singer can claim song writing royalties. |
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Post by martindn on Jan 27, 2014 22:04:20 GMT
It is frightening that the average person has an attention span of only 7 seconds. This of course corresponds with the well known optimum frequency for changing cameras in a TV show (I read that somewhere). TV has a lot to answer for.
Can these people ever read one of those books that are boring for the first few chapters, but brilliant once you get into them. Imagine them trying to listen to a classical symphony! Or any other complex piece of music that you have to hear several times before you even begin to appreciate it. They would probably prefer Rainer Hersch's abbreviated version of Beethoven's 5th, consisting of just six notes.
I don't expect Hayley to compete with that. It is all part of the dumbing down of the media, that seem to target people with IQ's of about 30. But I suppose I'm no better, it takes me a similar amount of time to get bored with most TV programmes, especially soap operas, and quiz shows that are mostly questions about other TV programmes.
Being selfish I want Hayley to make music that I enjoy. And usually, she does.
Martin D
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Jillian
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Post by Jillian on Jan 27, 2014 22:21:08 GMT
I also think it's got a lot to do with radios in cars - where I listen to all my radio.
For example, if I have a 10 minute drive to the shops, I want to listen to something decent on the radio and not waste my time with something I don't like. I was actually thinking that 7 seconds was fairly generous as my judgments are usually faster than that.. Too hip hop *change* Don't like Ke$ha *change* That sounds like a funeral dirge *change* That singer sounds annoying *change*
In my opinion, most genuinely really good songs do have you hooked in the first 7 seconds.
Because pop music is about repeating hooks throughout a song, most of the time if you get 7 seconds in and there's no decent hook or anything interesting, it's not going to be there later in the song, either.
Although unless Hayley plans on going more pop, this isn't quite as relevant to her. A lot of pop is about creating catchy hit songs. Whereas classical crossover is more focused on songs being carried by voices, rather than them being 'hits'.
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Post by martindn on Jan 27, 2014 23:35:07 GMT
Yes, point taken. But if you have ever listened to the Moody Blues "Days of Future Passed" (for example) waiting to get to "Nights In White Satin" then you have a long wait. But the rest is a build up, and without it, if you skip the rest, you somehow miss something. On a 10 minute drive I would not be bothered if what I heard on the radio was rubbish, not enough time to listen to anything decent anyway. On my half hour drive to work it is possible to listen to something worthwhile. Sometimes I make longer journeys. But iIreally prefer to listen to music on the hifi at home. There is no time pressure, (except perhaps to get to bed) and I can take my time and enjoy my music with out being distracted by the mechanics of driving.
Martin D
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Post by Libby on Jan 28, 2014 3:22:20 GMT
I almost never listen to the radio. If I hear the radio, it's almost never because I turned it on myself. There's almost nothing that stands out to me, and if there is, I don't want to wait a long time to finally hear it. If I want to hear a certain song, I'll play it myself. And what I play myself is rarely on any local radio station, anyway. That's the same reason I have never bothered with the Classical crossover show. I don't want to wait to hear Hayley's songs. I'd rather put it on myself, when I want it. I'm just glad they do play Hayley, so others who are less familiar with her can become more familiar with her. Jillian, one of my favorite artists, Brandi Carlile, writes almost all her own songs; and if she doesn't write them, then one of her band members, Phil Hanseroth, does. In fact, he wrote one of her biggest hits, along with T Bone Burnett, called The Story. You may recognize his name from the song Go to Sleep, which is on Hushabye. He actually produced Brandi's album, and I see he's produced a lot of other artists' albums, including the O Brother Where Art Thou soundtrack. If Hayley were to ever go down the folksy route, he might be a good songwriter to collaborate with. Also, Brandi Carlile and her band produced her most recent album nearly all by themselves, with a little help with someone more experienced. But she is listed as one of the producers of the album. Brandi is not an independent artist, though of course her name isn't as widely-known as some other, less talented artists out there. I don't see Hayley doing anything more "poppy" than WPTMB, say, or like what Sarah Brightman's done in the past. One of the first SB songs I ever heard was not a classical song at all. It was Second Element II, and I liked it a lot. |
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Post by Sing on Jan 28, 2014 22:45:37 GMT
I rediscovered these recently, Whilst I'm not a huge fan of Dave Dobbyn I love the songs, possibly because it's been a long time since I heard them! I think it would be nice for her to record these or similar ones, along with songs she has written too. I think these would mostly be popular in NZ but might be more of the sorts of songs that might be played on the radio more than some of the others she's done before? Personally I don't listen to the radio much but I think it's still where most music is played these days, if you want a song to be heard by lot's of people, the radio is the best place. Also, might be popular in other countries too, I don't think they will actually appear on her next (general release) album but would be nice to think they will be recorded one day, especially the second one. Sing  |
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Post by martindn on Jan 30, 2014 22:11:21 GMT
Thanks for those Sing. Yes, I have seen them before, but they are great aren't they?
As for me I'm a radio junkie. I very rarely watch TV, but I find there are too many radio channels playing good music to do them all justice. I love music, and usually have to suffer the talking in between. Radio helps me to find new music,and although I love to play my favourite albums, and although these days I find most of my favourite artists on the internet, radio is a lot more interesting than TV for me. Most TV is just so boring, the only things I watch are sport and quiz shows (and a lot of the quiz shows are about TV and so boring but some are OK). Oh and Song of Praise, especially when it features Hayley.
Martin D
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Post by tireman on Feb 6, 2014 14:51:17 GMT
Well, Bing Crosby didn't write ,"WHITE CHRISTMAS", but he did pretty good with it. My opinion is that I would rather let the writers do their jobs and the singers do
theirs. Look at the Country Genre. Some of the songs are terrible and the artist is O K. And that works both ways.
Larry
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Post by Libby on Feb 6, 2014 22:34:26 GMT
Larry, there's nothing wrong with a singer writing their own song. As far as I'm concerned, a singer who writes their own songs is way more unique and interesting than most other artists. I want to hear something fresh and new. Sure, it's great if you can afford to hire a bunch of songwriters to write new songs for you... already Hayley has written songs with other people. There are none she has recorded or performed that she didn't have someone else's help with. But most pop songs that all seem to be written by several people all at once are very unoriginal, all about the same things. It's always obvious that most pop singers aren't singing songs that they wrote themselves, that the songs they're singing don't necessarily ring true to their own lives. Right now, the only really popular singers I can think of who write their songs are Taylor Swift, Bruno Mars, John Mayer... and then, that's just what I've heard, I'm not going by whether I've seen that in their albums. I've never bought their albums, and never would. Oh wait, I think Lady Gaga writes some of her songs, too, crazy as they are. But at least she doesn't completely rely on others to write them. These days I could care less about a great voice if what they're singing has no effect on me. And if all they're singing is these mainstream, superficial songs, then I will never buy anything from them. Come on, Larry, you know as well as the rest of us that Hayley's songs are wonderful! How could anyone not want her write some songs? Why would you be against that??  I think writing her songs is something that Hayley herself wants to do more of, so if that's what Hayley wants to do, then hopefully nobody will stop her. |
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Post by martindn on Feb 6, 2014 23:33:17 GMT
Hi Libby,
Nobody can stop Hayley writing songs. But whether they ever see the light of day is another matter. She can choose to perform them live, but what she records involves other people who might have different opinions. For myself, I would trust Hayley more than those other people. For me she seems to have a song that speaks to me about every stage in my life that I've ever been trough. Mostly, in fact probably entirely, they are the ones that she wrote, or at least wrote the lyrics to. I do know that I have enjoyed every song she has written and recorded, and that they are usually the highlights of the albums on which they appear. An album which is predominately Hayley's own material is something I would love, and I know you would too.
Martin D
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Jillian
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Post by Jillian on Feb 7, 2014 13:03:27 GMT
Hi Libby, Nobody can stop Hayley writing songs. But whether they ever see the light of day is another matter. She can choose to perform them live, but what she records involves other people who might have different opinions. For myself, I would trust Hayley more than those other people. For me she seems to have a song that speaks to me about every stage in my life that I've ever been trough. Mostly, in fact probably entirely, they are the ones that she wrote, or at least wrote the lyrics to. I do know that I have enjoyed every song she has written and recorded, and that they are usually the highlights of the albums on which they appear. An album which is predominately Hayley's own material is something I would love, and I know you would too. Martin D I think what I hope for the most is an album that is a reflection of Hayley herself. Whether that is by an album of songs written by Hayley or written for Hayley is probably less important. What I don't want is an album of random covers cobbled together because Decca thinks it will cover off all possible aspects of the potential CC fan base. I think CC albums like that are okay when an artist is initially establishing his/her voice in the market -- but really, Hayley has already recorded all of the classical crossover standards anyway. Basically, what I hope for can be summed up in two words: 'artistic progression'. |
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