Jillian
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Post by Jillian on Jan 23, 2014 0:25:55 GMT
Me too! I'd buy it! In many ways I prefer that to the stuff she releases over here, good as it is. It is something different, something that most western singers would never think of. Hayley does it brilliantly, and as I've said before, the novelty alone would help it to sell over here, and it would be something really radical for our music market. It might just catch on, and we all know you can't fault the quality of Hayley's performances. Perhaps that is it. Hayley's releases in the west tend to be very safe. But that measn they risk being boring, and it is only Hayley's exceptional voice that saves the day. I can't imagine I would buy Hushabye if it were by anyone else for example. And I would love her to push the boat out and do something different. Releasing an album of Japanese, Chinese, Taiwanese songs in the UK would be radical. I'm sure her record company would never agree to it, it is too far out of their comfort zone. I am also sure that I would love it! I can't be the only one surely. Martin D Hi Martin D, The classical chart requirements in the UK are probably responsible there. Having to have 60% of the playing time dedicated to classical or traditional music is quite limiting. There are no such restrictions in other parts of the world, which has enabled Hayley to move more into the ''easy listening' category. I think that if Hayley was to acknowledge the Far East as her biggest market (rather than shaping all her output just to suit the UK classical charts) her CDs would become a lot more adventurous. I do often wonder if Hayley sells a lot more CDs in the Fat East than in the UK these days. But I suppose there's no way of knowing. On a side note, Blake have seemed to have found a lot of success in the Phillipines through singing and recording popular Phillipino songs  |
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Post by Bamafan on Jan 23, 2014 1:35:42 GMT
Well, the classical charts can't be too important to Decca regarding Hayley, otherwise they might have paid more attention to Hushabye. :wink: And if it's the other way round, Decca not paying any attention to Hayley, she better drop em like it's hot and move to a label that actually cares about her. -Taylor  |
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Post by Libby on Jan 23, 2014 2:57:34 GMT
Hayley Sings Taiwanese Songs!  -Taylor I'm kinda surprised she hasn't done an album called that in a way given her popularity over there, I think it's a good idea to have all the Mandarin songs in one place. Who knows? maybe one day it'll happen Yes, HSTS!! Yeah, I'm surprised, too. But after her next "real" album, of course. Of course I would buy the album, which is why I'm saying I'd like her to do it sometime. But there's no use expecting it to be released anywhere other than Asia. It's just very unrealistic, and actually impossible, if we're going by Decca's standards. Anyway, having it released in the UK doesn't help anyone other than the UK fans. I still have to order it from far away, so it makes no difference to me. Hey, hasn't Mary Jess Leaverland released an album in the UK with Chinese influences in the music?Isn't she with Decca? I'm not sure how well her album sold, but maybe there is a way for Hayley to include these types of songs. Except Mary Jess' album isn't all that classical. Probably not at all. But at least most of the songs are different, ones I've never heard of, and some that she wrote. |
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Jillian
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Post by Jillian on Jan 23, 2014 3:15:58 GMT
Hi Taylor
I think that Decca really tried to have Hushabye qualify for the classical charts, but missed out on a technicality (someone picked up what it was over in the Hushabye thread).
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Post by John H on Jan 23, 2014 9:18:54 GMT
Hey, hasn't Mary Jess Leaverland released an album in the UK with Chinese influences in the music?Isn't she with Decca? I'm not sure how well her album sold, but maybe there is a way for Hayley to include these types of songs. Except Mary Jess' album isn't all that classical. Probably not at all. But at least most of the songs are different, ones I've never heard of, and some that she wrote. Shine was poorly promoted and didn't sell well. The material was all new and I get the impression it was distinctly outside Decca's comfort zone  Mary-Jess is no longer with Decca  |
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Jillian
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Post by Jillian on Jan 23, 2014 11:38:33 GMT
Hi all, I would like to quote this fabulous post from Nicola from 2009. Looking down this list is a bit like doing a roll call of all the classical crossover albums I own It's actually slightly scary how accurately this list reflects Hayley's discography / live repertoire... After obtaining yet another version of Nella Fantasia today, I decided to have a little count of how many versions I have of each standard. I did this with my Windows Media Player - goodness knows how many more I have on CD! I found loads with four or three versions, but decided to only select songs that had 5 or more versions. Bear in mind there are several versions of Ave Maria. I would be happy if I never saw these titles on an album ever again: DOUBLE DIGITSAve Maria = 40 Pie Jesu = 22 Amazing Grace = 18 Time To Say Goodbye = 16 The Prayer (Foster) - 15 You Raise Me Up = 14 Somewhere - 13 Nella Fantasia = 12 Nessun Dorma = 12 O Mio Babbino Caro = 12 The Phantom of the Opera = 11 Silent Night = 11 All I Ask of You = 10 The Music of the Night = 10 NINELa Luna/Song to the Moon Somewhere/Over the Rainbow Panis Angelicus O Holy Night EIGHTBailero Caruso Cinema Paridiso Flower Duet S/he Moved Through the Fair Memory Lascia Ch'io Pianga Scarborough Fair Who Wants to Live Forever Wishing You Were Somehow Here Again You'll Never Walk Alone Nocturne SEVENLa Wally/Ebben...? May It Be Fields of Gold Walking in the Air Abide With Me Bridge Over Troubled Water Adagio Agnus Dei Pavane SIXOne Fine Day/Un Bel Di Aranjuez Be Still My Soul Angel (MacLachlan) Angels (Williams) Benedictus Granada How Can I Keep From Singing? I Believe Habañera Jerusalem Miserere Shenendoah Songbird The Water is Wide FIVECanto Della Terra Danny Boy Don't Cry For Me Argentina Going Home Hallelujah I Still Haven't Found What I Am Looking For I Vow To Thee My Country In Paradisum In the Bleak Midwinter In Trutina Kashmir Morning has Broken Nature Boy Now We Are Free O Sole Mio The Rose Sancta Maria Sancta Lucia Stranger In Paradise Va Pensiero Whistle Down the Wind What do you think of these standards? Do you like to hear these over and over again? Do you think they are stagnating the genre? I know my case may be extreme, as I have so many crossover CDs, but this is why I am so tired of these songs - they were lovely the first time, perhaps made a bit more special the second time, but I don't want to hear them again after that. :/ It's interesting that when I look back at my response to Nicola's post 4 years ago that I rather disagree with myself now! ha ha ha I think an extra 4 years of exposure to classical crossover turned me more around to Nicola's way of thinking. I think it's because when you first discover a Classical Crossover artist you love, it's great to hear them sing all the 'standards'. But then as time goes on you want more adventurous, personal and original material -- and the same standards over and over start to become maddening. I think Nicola's list emphasises the ongoing risk that classical crossover music has of stagnating itself. As for the 2014/2015 album, if Decca gets its way, a harsh reality would be to pick the female voice songs that Hayley hasn't yet recorded and lock them into the track list... |
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Jillian
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Post by Jillian on Jan 23, 2014 12:00:51 GMT
Hey, hasn't Mary Jess Leaverland released an album in the UK with Chinese influences in the music?Isn't she with Decca? I'm not sure how well her album sold, but maybe there is a way for Hayley to include these types of songs. Except Mary Jess' album isn't all that classical. Probably not at all. But at least most of the songs are different, ones I've never heard of, and some that she wrote. Shine was poorly promoted and didn't sell well. The material was all new and I get the impression it was distinctly outside Decca's comfort zone Mary-Jess is no longer with Decca I know... The problem really is that covers of recognisable crossover standards sort of sell themselves. It's because a person in a supermarket can flip over a CD and recognise 3/4 of the tracks and will be able to make an immediate judgment of whether they like it or not. If the songs are completely original, you have to get the consumers to know whether they like it or not (and want to buy it) by getting the sound out there -- television, radio, internet, youtube. All expensive -- and all probably not within budget. Decca specialises in promoting albums which are generally small sellers. To make any sort of profit on low selling albums, costs have to be kept way down. An article was featuring in the news today about a rapper who released an album in 2012 through Columbia Records. Promotion and creation expenses outstripped sales, so the artist ended up only getting 1 cent in royalties for the whole album... www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/us-rapper-kreayshawn-reveals-she-made-1-cent-from-her-debut-album/story-e6frfn09-1226808423469 PS. I do realise the message in this post directly contradicts what I said in my previous post...  I suppose it is the difference between a wish list and reality. |
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Post by martindn on Jan 23, 2014 22:22:25 GMT
Personally I think Nicola is spot on. And not for the first time. And you are right too Jillian. To promote new stuff, you have to reach people with it. And that means radio plays, TV appearances, advertising, whatever. Takes a lot of effort. Put it was and is possible.
In the history of music there have been many recordings that took off unexpectedly. They just have to grab the public imagination. Lots of wonderful recordings don't get their true reward because not enough people know about them. But if they find out, the result can be instant success. Sometimes years after the initial release.
I am reminded of a certain 1960s single. I think it was played twice on Radio Luxembourg. Nobody thought it would be a hit. I heard it and thought it was wonderful. For six weeks it was forgotten. Then somewhere, people somehow got to hear about it, started buying it. The media jumped on the bandwagon. It hit No 1 in the charts in the UK, then in the USA. It was recorded in a flat, above a shop in London. It was the first ever US no 1 by a British group...
If it is good it has the potential to sell. But only if people know about it. It can be like a snowball rolling down a hill. Once it starts, it grows. But you have to have that spark, and you have to have that quality. We all know that Hayley has the talent to do something wonderful. But you also need belief and promotion in the right places. I live in hope that it will happen, but fear it won't.
The things that makes Hayley's records different to the others are first of all the quality of her voice, which is unsurpassed, so that if you want to hear the CC standards, you can't go wrong getting Hayley's version. And secondly, her own songs, which are unique and wonderful. On Pure I loved her Maori songs, nobody else was doing things like that. And nobody has since. Then there are Hayley's own compositions. On Winter Magic, they are the highlights of the album. Her Japanese Songs albums are wonderful, another very different concept that has gone to waste in the west. Why?
Martin D
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Post by Libby on Jan 24, 2014 7:51:18 GMT
I realize it would be hard for Hayley to sell an album of all or mostly orignals. So in that case, I think she might still need to have a balance of originals and more well-known songs, and maybe continue to gradually include more and more original songs on each album. That way, she can slowly establish herself as a songwriter, and yet still attract the more casual fans, the supermarket shoppers, with a few classics. So, the more and more she would include originals, the more people would become familiar with her as a singer who also writes beautiful songs. And then, maybe eventually, they could advertise her original songs. It's really too bad she couldn't have written something for Hushabye, since it had to exist, just to make it a little less trite. But of course, there wasn't enough time for that. I wonder if they'd allowed more time, she could have had a chance to write something. Just to make it more of a Hayley album, rather than an album that Decca wanted her to do. I admit that if a singer I really like sings one of those overdone songs, I will love their version and not even care if it's done by other people. I won't listen to the other people, just my favorite singer. But I do agree that classical artists need to start becoming... or being allowed to become... more unique and original. But apparently Decca and other companies perhaps, don't seem to think unique or original will sell well enough. Their lack of promotion validates that excuse. It's like they're afraid to let anybody be different. I love variety on Hayley's albums, so I don't mind if a few well-knowns make it on there, as long as they're really good ones for Hayley's voice and style. As overdone as YRMU is, I would really love it if Hayley were to record it. And even though I'm not a big fan of Over the Rainbow, Hayley's performances have been gorgeous enough that I wouldn't mind if it was on an album of hers... as long as some beautiful original songs are mixed in. Plus I Know You By Heart. And Close to You. |
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Jillian
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Post by Jillian on Jan 24, 2014 12:11:08 GMT
I realize it would be hard for Hayley to sell an album of all or mostly orignals. So in that case, I think she might still need to have a balance of originals and more well-known songs, and maybe continue to gradually include more and more original songs on each album. That way, she can slowly establish herself as a songwriter, and yet still attract the more casual fans, the supermarket shoppers, with a few classics. So, the more and more she would include originals, the more people would become familiar with her as a singer who also writes beautiful songs. And then, maybe eventually, they could advertise her original songs. This sort of reminds me of how Josh Groban has transitioned from more Classical-Crossover to a much larger proportion of original self-penned songs. Personally I think Nicola is spot on. And not for the first time. And you are right too Jillian. To promote new stuff, you have to reach people with it. And that means radio plays, TV appearances, advertising, whatever. Takes a lot of effort. Put it was and is possible. In the history of music there have been many recordings that took off unexpectedly. They just have to grab the public imagination. Lots of wonderful recordings don't get their true reward because not enough people know about them. But if they find out, the result can be instant success. Sometimes years after the initial release. I am reminded of a certain 1960s single. I think it was played twice on Radio Luxembourg. Nobody thought it would be a hit. I heard it and thought it was wonderful. For six weeks it was forgotten. Then somewhere, people somehow got to hear about it, started buying it. The media jumped on the bandwagon. It hit No 1 in the charts in the UK, then in the USA. It was recorded in a flat, above a shop in London. It was the first ever US no 1 by a British group... If it is good it has the potential to sell. But only if people know about it. It can be like a snowball rolling down a hill. Once it starts, it grows. But you have to have that spark, and you have to have that quality. We all know that Hayley has the talent to do something wonderful. But you also need belief and promotion in the right places. I live in hope that it will happen, but fear it won't. The things that makes Hayley's records different to the others are first of all the quality of her voice, which is unsurpassed, so that if you want to hear the CC standards, you can't go wrong getting Hayley's version. And secondly, her own songs, which are unique and wonderful. On Pure I loved her Maori songs, nobody else was doing things like that. And nobody has since. Then there are Hayley's own compositions. On Winter Magic, they are the highlights of the album. Her Japanese Songs albums are wonderful, another very different concept that has gone to waste in the west. Why? Martin D Hi Martin D, In this regard, I think the internet really is Hayley's best friend. I wonder if for the next album it wouldn't be a bad idea to have a competition on Facebook and Twitter whereby prizes are given at random to people who share or retweet a link to the music video of the lead song. One person sharing a video on their page can often lead to hundreds of other people seeing it. Things like that. |
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Post by Libby on Jan 24, 2014 21:21:55 GMT
Josh Groban was exactly who I was thinking of when I wrote that. In fact, I had started to say as much, but I couldn't quite get my wording right through my fatigue. LOL Had been up since 5am. |
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Post by martindn on Jan 24, 2014 22:08:29 GMT
There is something in that Jillian. Even the Beatles, on their first couple of albums included covers of some of the "standards" of their genre. Once they were successful, they never did that again. But I suppose they had the luxury of huge worldwide success.
Yet there are other singer songwriters who only ever record their own songs. When did Joni Mitchell, Leonard Cohen, Pink Floyd, Bob Dylan, ever record anyone else's songs? (OK, Bob Dylan's "Girl from the North Country" with Johnny Cash is a thinly disguised cover of Scarborough Fair). But you get my point. You don't have to copy others, or record covers to be successful. You just need a good product and the right promotion. Hayley certainly has a good product....
Martin D
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Jillian
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Post by Jillian on Jan 25, 2014 1:21:58 GMT
Hi Martin D Although it is a significant point that a lot of the artists you listed are widely considered to song writing geniuses. None of them are ever going to have to sing other people's songs because their own songs were infinitely better than anything else out there. Bob Dylan, Leonard Cohen and the Beatles composed songs which changed the world. That is not easy at all -- which is why these artists are such legends. For the rest of the mere mortals on this earth, song writing has to be a collaborative experience with other song writers, all working together to try to create something catchy. I imagine that professional song writers probably have a set fee for even picking up a pen with artists during song writing sessions. All of this probably has to be endorsed and funded by the record company. So a limitation is already there. A must read article is the one below. It shows the military effort and expense that is required for pop stars like Rihanna to produce an album a year of hit pop songs. It runs through how much a hit song costs. www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/07/05/137530847/how-much-does-it-cost-to-make-a-hit-songThere's also a very interesting YouTube video based off the article. I really recommend watching this. It goes through everything from the writing to the marketing. I know this is talking about one of the biggest pop singers on the planet right now -- but the general principles are the same. It's all about tallying up risk. I mean, it was a good thing that Hushabye was made cheaply. In the UK it only sold around 3,800 copies in the first week and then dropped out of the top 50. Sales in New Zealand were better, but it didn't receive Gold status, so it still would have been under 7,500 copies sold. If a lot of money had been spent, the end result would have been a fiscal blood bath. When you think about the amount of money going into new songs, you can understand how much money is saved by doing covers. A quality producer could probably 'freshen up' an arrangement of 'Don't Cry For Me Argentina' rather quickly and then it would be straight into the studio to do it. Like any business, Decca are going to have to be given a really good reason to open their cheque book. Perhaps the new material Hayley has been working on over the last few years will be enough? But really, if things keep on as the way they are now -- same image, same style, same look, same attitude -- I don't see what could make Decca suddenly decide to start splashing cash. They have a tried and tested formula of selling beautiful sounding cover albums relying on Hayley's voice, made by keeping expenses down and hence accommodating moderate sales. Something big, new and exciting would have to be pitched to them to encourage them to take a risk. I honestly believe that Hayley has the capacity to do that. But we are sort of playing in dream land at the moment. |
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Post by Bamafan on Jan 25, 2014 2:43:30 GMT
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Post by Bamafan on Jan 25, 2014 4:51:59 GMT
You know, I was looking over Nicola's list again, and I will agree; many of those songs are overdone. But for me, if a certain cover of a song is truly unique, then I think it discounts itself from that category. Take Katherine Jenkins' version of "Bailero." That's one of the songs on there. Her version is so different from any other I've heard, and I actually wouldn't mind Hayley doing "Bailero" like that. -Taylor |
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I suppose it is the difference between a wish list and reality. 
