New theme

[Simba]

I brought up this topic in a rather off-topic area, so let me continue it here.

Admins, is it possible to think about a new theme for the forums? The Cyan blue is quite disturbing, and the whole forum skin doesn't look very professional. I'm openly saying this based on a personal experience, when I first heard about hayley I googled and came here, and left ONLY because of the skin, and I'm sure there'd be a lot people out there who'd expect a professional'ish skin, to decide to stay. The reason I came here is because, God made me listen to more Hayley songs and made me realize she was the best, and I stayed not because of the looks, but because of what an awesome forum and community this has. So I sincerely feel "first impression is the best impression" would be the thing for a lot of people, and hence a neat, sleek theme with a good color scheme (we can have a similar blue color scheme to make it feel at home). I meant no offense, and was only sincerely putting forward a suggestion which would make more potential fans stay, and get the most out of this awesome forums.
(We could also use the Hayley Official website color scheme, to match our forums)

- Simba

Totally the wrong place to discuss this, of course! But I've been an active member of this forum for five years now and have never had a problem with it's colours or layout. I've also looked at other forums during that time and still think this is one of the better displayed ones.

Colour is very subjective and I don't think any colour layout would please everyone and I certainly wouln't want to copy the official forum or any other for that matter.

Best wishes
Grant

Thank you Simba and Grant for your opinions on the forum design. The official site look is Decca's design, and well, we are the unofficial site. One of the options before us to wait for ProBoards forums to upgrade to version 5. Everything from banner size to text colors have yet to be determined...plus there will be MANY new features! I have joined the ProBoards Beta Testing Team so I can keep ahead of all the changes.

"It isn't the colour of the flower, it is the beauty that lies within it"

-Joe

You can't please all of the people all of the time. Colour is very subjective.

I can tell you that in my professional role involves designing diplay pages for control systems and the one think that people argue about more than anything else is choice of colours. Not features or even functionality. And no two of them ever agree.

The best way out of that hole is to make the colour screen user configurable. Actually hayleyonline.net has already done that, you have a choice of six different colour schemes. Perhaps it could be suggested to Proboards that they could build in some capability like that.

Martin D

Sure guys, I'm not saying it decides anything, as I said, this forums is amazing, with a great community situated in it itself. As much as I appreciate your view about it, you can't deny the fact that there'd be people like me too, so there's no point in justifying that this skin is great or anything. s4.zetaboards.com/Northern_Skies/index/ That's a forum design I did for a game forums,(just an example of what we could make) I'm just saying, when we can make a better skin we should, just because the forums is nice (which really IS AWESOME!) is no reason for not making a better skin when we can. I know it sounds really stupid, but a lot of people would decide not to look further because of a less-professional skin. It's the "HAYLEY WESTENRA INTERNATIONAL FORUMS!" It's a great place, and it deserves to have a better skin, in all honestly, the first impression that a skin like this would give is,
*Hayley's not a well-off singer
*This is just 'some' fan made site
(please don't try to argue against this, no matter how much you would never think like this, there are people who would)
But we know who Hayley really is, and that HWI isn't some site, it's an awesome place.

And I guess you guys are right about the fact that we needn't copy the Decca's site theme, but that was only a suggestion.

Joe: Ah now that is reasonable, I can't wait for the upgrade , but I sincerely suggest considering a new theme after the upgrade

EDIT: Martin: It's not the color alone, but the whole theme itself. The cement like texture as the background, colors which don't balance very well, a banner with a indefinite border, with an image of Hayley cut out very poorly, the bright Red text and unnecessary text placed in the banner in wrong (or not-so-balancing) places. And the newzealand logo thingy....Gives a very not-so-professional impression.

[martindn]

from my post in the "Breakfast" thread

You can't please all of the people all of the time. Colour is very subjective.

The best way out of that hole is to make the colour screen user configurable. Actually hayleyonline.net has already done that, you have a choice of six different colour schemes. Perhaps it could be suggested to Proboards that they could build in some capability like that.

Martin D

[Simba]

Yeah I actually added that in there as well, and replied to it separately

[Dave]

Hi Simba,

Well you've certainly started something here!

The trouble is that it is completely the wrong time to start such a discussion, it needs to be looked at when things "Hayley" are quiet not when things are busy like now. It's hard enough for us to keep up with the daily news and discussions without worrying about design changes. We have a website, Youtube channel and Facebook to maintain too.

We have pretty well kept much the same forum and website design right from the beginning 8 years ago and in the past, when changes were considered among the forum staff (and for the website), we have thought it important to maintain continuity of appearance and image, including the colour scheme.

I am unaware of any previous call for a change of the kind you suggest and if there had been, we would certainly have discussed it. But even if there emerges a sudden demand for one as a result of this thread, I'm not going to get into design change discussions at the moment, there is far too much happening. That would have to wait until later.

Of course, any opinions posted will remain on the record and will be useful in future, but I am not encouraging them right now as we have too many other things to worry about.

Cheers, Dave

[grant]

Hi Dave

Aug 27, 2011 18:43:07 GMT Dave said:

We have pretty well kept much the same forum and website design right from the beginning 8 years ago and in the past, when changes were considered among the forum staff (and for the website), we have thought it important to maintain continuity of appearance and image, including the colour scheme.

Personally, I hope we continue to do so - it's part of the HWI heritage as far as I'm concerned!

Best wishes
Grant

[Simba]

I completely agree with you Dave, I only started it because the recent TV promotions have made a lot of people interested that they have visited the site, some 400% increase I read. In which I'm sure atleast 20-50% May feel this way.

But yeah with so much going on it's very difficult to change the theme like that. However I would suggest some preset proboard themes, and a much needed banner change. (I can do the banner if at all you consider this whole thing at some point)

Grant: If you look at things like that, I don't find the definition of the word 'progress', we have to let go of a few things to move forward. For a veteran hayley fan sure, all these would be very minor things, for me too, I don't care about the skin anymore, and the valuable content is what made me stay. But the talk of 400% increase in new people visiting reminded me of my first impression which I don't want those people to have.
And it's all a matter of age too, I being 17(and an artist) will definitely think a lot differently than the majority mature people here, who are wise enough to ignore these small things such as themes. But who are we to say how many of the 400$ would think like me as well?

Please think about this, I don't demand or suggest immediate action, I know how difficult it is to make a new theme from scratch, or simply changing/updating. But I hope my reasons are justified, because as stupid as they are, there are people who'd think like that.

I only want more people to become die-hard hayley fans like I have, and this small thing shouldn't be any barrier.

Thanks,
Simba.

[grant]

Simba

I don't wish to get into a discussion about this but the banner is one thing I would not wish to see discarded.

'Progress' to my mind, is not about changing things so they look more professional (as you put it) it's about finding better ways to support Hayley and provide information to Hayley's followers so that they can support Hayley; It's about having people on board here who have an interest in making sure that happens.

As far as I am aware no serious suggestions have been made previously about changing forum colours which suggests to me that it has no real relevance in the scheme of things and that your suggested percentage of users who think like you is way off the mark

cheers
Grant

[martindn]

Well, if you want my opinion, which I didn't express above, I don't really care much about such things, although I concede that a lot of other people do.
That's because i thin of HWI as a fan forum, it is a repository of news, opinions and the history of Hayley's career. It is not her shop window - that is and should be her music.
There is a difference between selling HWI and selling Hayley. HWI exists to help Hayley, and for a place where Hayley's fans can meet and express thier opinions. The colour scheme chosen has little if any effect on any of that. I can remember the early days of computing when you only had 2 colours to choose from! And before that , when computers didn't even use readable text - it was all done with binary numbers and paper tape.
But as an engineer, to me it is always functionality that matters. And HWI has performed its function admirably for years, I think Hayley wold agree with that too. As an artist Simba, no doubt you think differently. And perhaps the design could be improved from the aesthetic point of view. But for me, I don't much care as long as we continue to perform our function.

Martin D

[Roger-G]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this forum in its present format.

[grant]

Hi Roger

Aug 27, 2011 21:17:31 GMT Roger-G said:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this forum in its present format.

You know what? Essays have been written - heads have been scratched and you've just summed it up in a dozen words!

Well done, I'm with you!

Best wishes
Grant

[scoobedoo]

i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif AMEN i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gif



Cheers,

Rodders

[Richard]

I vote to keep the forum as it is.

Richard

[Simba]

Hmm...sure I was only trying to help, like I said I have no problem with the forums anymore, if it has to stay this way I don't mind.

I completely agree with every single thing you guys said, I always did from the start of the topic. The function is what matters and it is what that made me stay too. The way you people are taking sides against me, agreeing with the rest of you is simply pointless. We are all technically having the same aim, to support Hayley.

We all are wise enough to realize not to judge a book by its cover nor is the color of a flower important. But as human beings people will(new comers)tend to make such mistakes.

With that said, I'd like to respond to Martin's post alone whose I find very relevant to what I was talking about,

I don't really care much about such things, although I concede that a lot of other people do.
That's because i thin of HWI as a fan forum, it is a repository of news, opinions and the history of Hayley's career. It is not her shop window - that is and should be her music.
There is a difference between selling HWI and selling Hayley.

I completely agree, starting to think about it, you're right, I think I was just confusing with the fact that when I got to know of Hayley, I confused the HWI website for her official website (which I didn't know earlier), and found it less-professional. I hope others don't do that silly mistake.

The colour scheme chosen has little if any effect on any of that.

If you really feel so, then I'm happy, I was only a bit worried about that.

And before that , when computers didn't even use readable text - it was all done with binary numbers and paper tape.

Haha indeed, but now we have more technology at hand, so I think we can (if/whenever possible), not because of my previously stated reasons, but for the very fact that we can do so much more, change the skin based on all that we have at hand now.

No doubt that this forum would have functioned just as great if it was at the time of those 2 colors era. But I'm sure we'd want to make our forums like every other present (professional) ones are, as time goes by. So still I feel a change should be considered, maybe in a few months or a year, or a little more. But I somehow feel it's necessary.

And perhaps the design could be improved from the aesthetic point of view. But for me, I don't much care as long as we continue to perform our function.

Again as I said, I don't care much as well , it's not about those already here, but the new ones to give a good first impression. After all I feel, one would become a complete hayley fan only after actively participating in our lovely forums! So even though this wouldn't affect Hayley's sales and such, (as you say), to make them stay here, I simply thought this could be effected. Ofcourse mentioned in a very wrong time.

We can end this discussion here to avoid any more controversies during this beautiful time of the year when Hayley's having so much going on. I guess I just over-reacted haha.

Thanks for taking the time to respond though! (everyone

[postscript]

Hi everyone.

In principle, readability, simplicity of use, and simplicity of maintenance for those behind the scenes is all we require. After that, if there is time, tinkering with aesthetic considerations is important in order to maintain a visually attractive, 'up with the times' image that holds the attention of passers-by/visitors, so they feel we are up to the standard of the star we wish to celebrate and support. I think that is an important element to justify the status we presume to claim. While I don't completely ascribe to the idea 'if it ain't bust why fix it? school of thought, regular reviewing/discussion is not a bad thing.

Peter S.

[Libby]

Aug 27, 2011 15:44:51 GMT Simba said:

Wow that's brilliant!.....a little bit off-topic, but a small thought. Admins, is it possible to think about a new theme for the forums? The Cyan blue is quite disturbing, and the whole forum skin doesn't look very professional. I'm openly saying this based on a personal experience, when I first heard about hayley I googled and came here, and left ONLY because of the skin, and I'm sure there'd be a lot people out there who'd expect a professional'ish skin, to decide to stay. The reason I came here is because, God made me listen to more Hayley songs and made me realize she was the best, and I stayed not because of the looks, but because of what an awesome forum and community this has. So I sincerely feel "first impression is the best impression" would be the thing for a lot of people, and hence a neat, sleek theme with a good color scheme (we can have a similar blue color scheme to make it feel at home). I meant no offense, and was only sincerely putting forward a suggestion which would make more potential fans stay, and get the most out of this awesome forums.
(We could also use the Hayley Official website color scheme, to match our forums)

The color theme of this forum has never bothered me, nor has it ever occurred to me that anyone would be bothered by it. I think that's a silly reason not to join a forum, just because of the way it looks. I could understand if the colors made it difficult to read, or if there was too much flashy stuff or something. The background looks more like the texture of a painted wall to me, not cement. What colors do you think it should be? Maybe the color is a little bright, but it's never bothered me enough to complain about it.

The "New Zealand thingy" should be there, because it shows that Hayley is from NZ, and the text explains what the background picture is, so people know.

I wouldn't necessarily expect an "unofficial" fan forum to look as professional as one designed by a record company. But I personally think it looks just fine!

I also disagree about the forums matching. This is a unique forum, made by fans, and doesn't need to be exactly the same as the one designed by the Decca people. I don't even think the official forum should still be yellow, let alone this one. The OF should match the official site, if anything. I'm actually still waiting for that to happen. The forum administrator actually agreed with us (the OF moderators) that the forum could use some "new paint". But whether or not they're going to act on this anytime soon remains to be seen. You'd think they'd have it done in time for the UK release of Paradiso. Well, we'll see tomorrow, I guess. I'm not holding my breath, though. At the very least, they need to put a picture of Paradiso at the top, to replace the River of Dreams one.