Is London safe?

[stevemacdonald]

Serious rioting has erupted in parts of London, and word is that it's spreading. Hayley typically has business about town and could potentially stumble into a developing disturbance without warning. Is London safe for her?

[postscript]

Hi Steve and everyone.

London is a vast metropolis. Hayley's 'everyday jaunts' are probably 20 miles away and were she in town Tottenham Court Road has nothing what ever to do with Tottenham and is probably as far east (and north) as she is likely to want to go, unless to Camden, St Paul's and the Tower (as a visitor!)!

As in New York, you can turn a corner and suddenly the world is a different place. You know immediately you wrong-stepped so you just step back. In any case, I think she is pretty savvy about London.

It is more to do with neighbourhoods which 'specialise' in crime and fight amongst themselves. Periodically there is a police clamp down. It was local yobs against the police, not other people and others taking advantage of the distraction for easy pickings, to express general angst against society and our present financial depression. The 'spreading' is simple 'let's join the mayhem, there's nothing else to do'.

Peter S.

[martindn]

Well, said Peter, my thoughts exactly.

I understand Hayley lives in one of the leafier and more pleasant parts of London, certainly nowhere near the rough areas where the riots happen. Of course there has been some copycatting, mostly in places where there are rich pickings from looted shops. That isn't where Hayley is.

Martin D

[Dave]

Aug 8, 2011 8:04:25 GMT stevemacdonald said:

Serious rioting has erupted in parts of London, and word is that it's spreading. Hayley typically has business about town and could potentially stumble into a developing disturbance without warning. Is London safe for her?

As Peter and Martin D rightly said, London is vast and Hayley's part of town is 10 to 15 miles away from where the main law and order problems have occurred (and will I am sure soon be sorted out).

The answer to your question, for the benefit of members who don't know London, is "yes, Hayley is safe".

Dave.

[Elliot Kane]

Just to add my reassurances to the rest - yes, Hayley is quite safe. London is, IIRC, either the second or third largest city in the world - it is absolutely immense, covering a vast chunk of the South East of England and with a population of somewhere around ten million people (If not more, by now).

If Hayley goes anywhere near Tottenham while all this is going on, I would be beyond shocked. She's a smart lady, so don't worry

[stevemacdonald]

Thanks for the reassurances, everyone. It was reported that an HMV store was ransacked during the violence. What if one of the looters ran off with a bunch of Hayley's CDs, gave them a listen and is now completely wowed? There's a bright side to everything.

[martindn]

That's what is is all about of course. Forget the politics, and the posturings of politicians and the BBC. This is simple straightforward criminality. And it is planned, not "mindless" as Hayley suggested. You don't just pick up petrol bombs off the street, they have to be made. And they would only be made if something is planned.
So, they start a riot, by hijacking a peaceful demonstration, throw a few bombs start a few fires, than while the police are occupied they can loot shops with impunity. I'm sure that is what it is.
And now it is spreading to other cities, as their criminals realise what a good idea it is...
What a sick world we live in!

Martin D

[Dave]

Unfortunately, it's still happening but fortunately, it's still in parts of London well away from Hayley.
I think Hayley's 'mindless' i.e.:

2 hours 59 min ago @hayleywestenra Woah. The violent and mindless rioting going on here in London is horrifying. Stay safe guys xxx

...is an apt description for what's going on. I think it's turned into opportunistic copycat madness, initially triggered by a single unfortunate and badly handled police incident last week, but now, it seems to have become an excuse for a few hundred looters in some areas to literally run riot because they know the police are stretched and in other places, so they can get away with it. Madness!

Dave

[postscript]

Hi Martindn, Dave and everyone.

In my view it comes simply down to a preoccupation with rights against responsibilities over the last many years, the mindlessness starting with mindless government that wanted to look good rather than be good. The Human Rights Act fails to stand up for the rights of society to demand individual accountability and individual responsibility. Everyone is scared stiff of taking responsibility and showing leadership because of punitive liability for upsetting one or other preconceived notions on individual rights. It is perceived these rights must be upheld before accountability for the welfare of wider society.

Supposedly these riots are being organised over blackberry closed networks, not the open society of twitter and facebook--although on the former there is over 1,000 texted support for the Metropolitan police. Half-an-hour later nearly 10,000 have indicated their approval, openly with their IDs, not hidden on furtive networks! Now (a day later) over 400,000 have added their support for the police.

I am surprised that the ilk perceived as being responsible for the riots are blackberry owners, hence the statement by blackberry of 'opening their books' to police, so hopefully blackberry users involved can be picked off as easily as on the open systems.

Mass hysteria has and does happen and maybe this is a form of hysteria. It may be another indicator that as society gets more sophisticated the more people get left out through lack of adequate education, building a sense of helplessness, panic, fear and resentment.

It seems that a police gun crime initiative a few days ago went wrong and due to 'due legal process' definitive answers were not available with the speed of response some hysterical people, legitimately concerned, demanded. From which hysteria seems to have spilled over. There appears an awful lack of good old-fashioned knowledge and understanding of the basic tenets of society which used to be ingrained as a matter of course. The appalling ignorance at Diana's death over the difference between a flag and a standard is a classic example. Standards are never lowered. The Queen is dead, long live the King, it is an automatic continuity yet the general lack of awareness of this in society generally is appalling.

Perhaps it is another example of having everything immediately and no delay is tolerable, implying ulterior motives behind the delay of 'due process'. There must be a small minority somewhere pulling the strings but an awful lot of mindless thuggery for the sheer sake of have a bun fight is the mass motivation.

Peter S.

[Joe]

It was quite a shock to see all of the fires and looting of many high street shops in Tottenham and Croydon this evening.

[fusilier23]

Hayley's wise enough to stay far, far away from the yucky area where this is all happening, so I think we needn't worry about her, which is nowhere near her general area if I understand correctly. Plus I think she has bodyguards if need be.

I am sorry to say she isn't right on the word "mindless" though, some of this is clearly planned criminality and anarchism. The Home Secretary needs to channel her inner Maggie Thatcher and put a stop to this, like yesterday. I'm surprised no one's put in a call to Wellington Barracks. If I understand the law aright, in the UK you CAN use the military to crush a riot or break a strike, so what are they waiting for? Sound the alarm! Turn out the guard! To arms! To arms!

[Joe]

The Home Secretary's office has reported over 200 arrests in the last three days..so that is a huge achievement. Mr Cameron will be returning back in London (from another interrupted holiday) to meet with Mrs May, local councillors and police. More police presence is needed to end the unrest and start rebuilding.

[stevemacdonald]

At this stage of the crisis one thing is becoming frighteningly clear: There is no specific, single "yucky" area to avoid anymore because many locations around London are targets. Hayley will have to step up the precautions if she wants to steer clear of such jeopardy. Take a look at what's been going on:

[Libby]

If it comes down to it, is anywhere safe, for anybody?

Bad things happen all the time, all over the world.

[jimg]

Hayley just posted on Twitter.

HayleyWestenraHayley Westenra
4.30pm and all the shops on my high st have closed early with police out in force..... #eerieandalittlebitscary