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Post by martindn on Aug 9, 2011 21:26:44 GMT
Yes they closed the shops early in Leicester too today expecting trouble. So far none has materialied although the street rumour is for Friday. Hopefully the police will have got their act together by then.
Ealing is probably the closest one to where Hayley is, and she did say in the Close Up interview that she heard sirens last night. But then, perhaps that happens most nights, it does around here.
I'm sure Hayley is being careful, and won't go out tonight.
Take care everyone in London and those other cities - we are thinking of you.
Martin D
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Post by stevemacdonald on Aug 10, 2011 6:49:55 GMT
...I'm sure Hayley is being careful, and won't go out tonight.... That might not be enough, Martin. Latest reports are that rioters are kicking down doors of private homes. Yes, they are going after people in their homes!
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Post by postscript on Aug 10, 2011 8:06:42 GMT
Hi Stevemcdonald and everyone.
A little over-excitement here I think. What you need to concentrate on is the standard British "Dunkirk/Blitz" spirit which is now fully in evidence. The local communities are out in force clearing the mess and determined to ensure the only obvious thing about these riots is that nothing of consequence happened--and nothing of consequence has. They are only buildings in the main. Where they wanted to torch a car they first removed the occupants (forcibly but otherwise unharmed) and one five generations old furniture department that survived two world wars and the depression was gutted and had to be pulled down (Croydon).
It is arguably wrong to describe the events as a 'riot' as there is no direct cause. The events are completely pointless. They are but downright plain hooliganism for the sake of creating turmoil and rifling other people's property. Yes, there are underlying complex problems which have been simmering for years to which everyone able to do anything about them has determined they won't because it was politically inconvenient to acknowledge such problems existed.
The subject is too much meat for discussion here, on a thread itself something of a side-track from our main purpose, of promoting and supporting a marvelous international artist who brings intense pleasure to so many: Hayley.
Peter S.
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Post by martindn on Aug 10, 2011 19:18:26 GMT
Yes, I agree Peter, but people are understandably concerned about Hayley's safety. Not everyone knows where the trouble is.
But the people ar mobilising. I heard of one incident where a riot was stopped by a group of tough looking football supporters from a club with a "reputation" who stood behind the police. The police (at least in Leicester) had been ordered not to confront the rioters, but if those supporters had weighed in on the side of the police, the rioters would have got a good beating. And the police would have done nothing. The rioters knew that and ran off.
I heard our own football supporters in Lecester plan to do the same. If the police can do nothing, ordinary people will defend themselves and their property. And that is what is starting to happen.
I think that as long as you keep away from places where there are shops to loot, you should be safe.
Martin D
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Post by Libby on Aug 10, 2011 20:43:52 GMT
Well, apparently Hayley felt it was safe to go out today/tonight.
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Post by martindn on Aug 10, 2011 21:02:42 GMT
I'm sure it was safe where she went Libby. Thames embankment and some gardens. No shops to loot there, and hence no rioting.
It was probably more dangerous where I went today, there was trouble about 2 miles away last night. My son was there, he saw them trying to break the windows of a shop selling designer clothing, and then succeed in breaking into the tailor next door. They didn't find anything to their liking there though, so left empty-handed.
The most disturbing think is that a policeman told him that they would not move to protect him if the gang of youths barring his path attacked him. So he went a different way. The police had apparently been ordered not to do anything to stop the riots. Why were they there then? I suppose to record evidence for future prosecution. I'm beginning to wonder why I, as a taxpayer, bother to pay for a police force who seem more interested in prosecuting safe drivers than in catching criminals.
Martin D
Martin D
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Post by Dave on Aug 10, 2011 21:36:25 GMT
The police had apparently been ordered not to do anything to stop the riots. Why were they there then? I suppose to record evidence for future prosecution. I'm beginning to wonder why I, as a taxpayer, bother to pay for a police force who seem more interested in prosecuting safe drivers than in catching criminals. Quite the opposite approach seems to have been used in central Manchester, where my brother works, last night (their first night of rioting). The police were very pro-active, breaking up to 1,000 rioters up into very small groups and chasing them all over the place, arresting over 100 of them and running Court sessions all day and all night tonight. Yes a lot of damage was done but there has been no repeat of the violence there tonight; a lesson in how it should be done, it seems. I think as the police continue to refine their tactics, this criminal nonsense will soon stop now (and none in London now for two days, it seems).
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Post by postscript on Aug 11, 2011 6:48:39 GMT
Hi Dave, Martindn and everyone.
What is most interesting currently is the number of accused going to and emerging from preliminary court hearings anxious to hide their faces. Why? Is this an admission they know what they did was wrong and therefore are ashamed? So why publish their actions on CCTV in the first place? Why do it?
It should put an end to the asinine complaints against CCTV. There never has been a problem with them if you haven't anything to hide.
What is extraordinary is that we have: a baker, a grammar school daughter of a millionaire, an eleven years old boy and a teaching assistant amongst those being charged! Then another teaching assistant witters a complete load of codswallop suggesting matters would not have happened if the Prime Minister and his family lived in Peckham for a week. She is convinced the entire family would be on drugs and breaking the place up within the week! With teaching assistants like that it is little wonder the country is sliding into an abyss! We also learn of a mother who bought her thirteen years old son a machete for his 13th birthday! With witless parents like that it is understandable that we have mindless youths.
Peter S.
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Post by Jeff on Aug 11, 2011 10:45:52 GMT
Interesting that people with jobs are involved in rioting. This gives the lie to the idea that it is born out of desperation due to unemployment. Mind you I've been unemployed and I wouldn't riot. 30 years ago when I left uni we had a recession with 3 million on the dole. I couldn't find a graduate job so spent a summer working in a seafront cafe. Not what I envisaged doing and not well paid but it gave me something to do until better things came along. Speaking with European friends last night they said they HAD to spend a year in the army when they left college. Maybe it's time we had something like that here for those who clearly need some discipline in their lives ?
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Post by postscript on Aug 11, 2011 11:49:15 GMT
Hi Jeff and everyone.
A most interesting debate in the House of Commons today. Clarifying the situation, it appears the police were initially perceived they were dealing with a public order problem and too slowly realised the situation had turned into an overall criminality. Slowness of initial appropriate response is clearly understood in the sensitivity of an incident in which subsequent enquiries indicate the possibility the police acted wrongly and then the situation mushroomed and the police took too long to realise what was happening. Now, where else do you get senior police chiefs acknowledging that they took too long to get the matter under control and to respond efficiently, so soon and so openly?
It also seems Parliament and the public mood is swinging back to the issue I raised in my first post in this thread: too many people are concerned about their rights in society instead of their responsibilities to society! Peter S.
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Post by fusilier23 on Aug 11, 2011 13:29:50 GMT
The police seem to have finally woken up, with predawn raids and talk of baton rounds and water cannon. The UK has long had a problem managing youth culture, and this is what resulted. I for one have no sympathy for anyone who gets roughed up as a result of this.
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Post by Dave on Aug 11, 2011 18:42:38 GMT
Now it seems to be all under control, to lighten the mood: Dave
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Post by Martin on Aug 11, 2011 19:15:55 GMT
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Post by Elliot Kane on Aug 11, 2011 20:48:35 GMT
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Post by tireman on Aug 11, 2011 23:46:04 GMT
The police seem to have finally woken up, with predawn raids and talk of baton rounds and water cannon. The UK has long had a problem managing youth culture, and this is what resulted. I for one have no sympathy for anyone who gets roughed up as a result of this. I think everyone should quit worrying. If the Prime Minister would just hire some off duty Chicago policemen they would have this under control in a day ,two at the maximum. Larry
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