Post by postscript on May 30, 2007 9:57:06 GMT
Hi Everyone.
Following Dave's suggestion I have started this thread.
The background to starting the thread is the following post by Dave (NZ Sunday Star Magazine thread) in response to a PM to him.
By the by can I just say to you: RPO RLPO PM? Any thoughts, observations, news?
Peter S.
Hi Peter, Oops, I forgot (again!) but I did look into it and I asked Roger too if he knew any more about it but alas he does not. As this was initially a private conversation, I should mention that Peter has information that may indicate that it was the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra (RLPO) which backed Hayley on some or all of Pure, not the The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra (RPO) as credited on both UK editions of Pure, over a year apart - and all others as far as i know. I would be surprised if Decca were that much in error but you never know.
One thing that comes to mind is this: Hayley's book mentions that the original Pure - which was never released - was recorded in Dublin. Remembering where the RLPO is based - not too far across the Irish Sea from Dublin - perhaps they had some involvement in the unreleased version, even though we know most of the backings were electronic? Or the credits on the final version of Pure could be entirely or partially wrong, as your contact seems to have intimated.
Sorry Peter but that's the best I can do for the moment. Feel free to start a thread in the Pure Albums board about the unreleased Pure, version 1, if you wish. I don't think there is such a thread to date and it might turn out to be very interesting indeed. If you do, you might want to quote this post in it, for continuity.
Cheers, Dave
This originated as follows.
[li]November (?) 2005 Royal Philharmonic Hall Liverpool.
[/li][li]Conversation with Jill (somewhat jet-lagged [Hayley please note!) in which I mentioned that I was staying in each of Hayley's locations for 2 or 3 days so I could look round the cities, looking at architecture and drew Jill's attention to the fact that if they had time the next day they should take in either the Roman Catholic cathedral (known as 'the stump' or 'wigwam') or the Anglican cathedral, each at opposite ends of the road in which the Hall stood and preferably both as fine examples of totally different use of stained glass. In particular [the reason for this long lead-in as a chance to further plug the idea] I would love to hear Hayley's voice in the Anglican cathedral, its organ having over 7,000 pipes presenting a fine body of pipes in the upper registers in which the organ was playing when i dropped in there and lending a wonderful colour accompaniment to Hayley's voice. Such a concert however would require a considerable publicity effort as it is one of the largest Anglican cathedrals in the world.
[/li][li]This conversation derived from the fact that we were talking about the Hall and I advised Jill that this was one of the finest examples of art deco architecture in the country, that the RLPO was the only orchestra in the UK to own its own Concert Hall (excluding the BBC's orchestral department) and that the design was intended to echo the 1930s period of ocean liner design, Liverpool being Cunard's home port.
[/li][li]'You obviously are an expert in architecture', said Jill. 'No', said I, 'My eyes were opened late in life but I've kept them open ever since'.
[/li][li]I was not at this time aware of the RPO/RLPO contradiction but had assumed the raison d'être for the performance was the CD recording of 'Pure'.
[/li][li]It was in mentioning this very wonderful evening to my friend that he advised me of his life-long connection with the RLPO and how proud they were to have recorded with Hayley.
[/li][li]Subsequently I learned, through here and re-checking the assignments on the CD that attribution was actually made to the RPO and not the RLPO.
[/li][li]My friend subsequently attended a dinner with leading members of the RLPO who confirmed it was the RLPO who had recorded 'Pure'. My friend said the RLPO had always been the RLPO but that it was only recently the PO had been able to add 'Royal' to its name, hence beginning to cause some confusion. Further confusion being added were they to call themselves the Royal London Philharmonic Orchestra!
[/li][li]My friend, drawing attention to the attribution on the 'Pure' recording apparently caused not a little consternation raising questions that could not be answered that night.
[/li][li]Roger may have forgotten that I did raise this issue with him as a PM (or verbally perhaps at some meeting) around this time and since my friend had not been able to gain any categorical answer and Roger seemed affirmative that RPO was correct, I let the matter die.
[/li][li]Just recently the matter was raised by my friend and since Dave had been making some very authoritative comments on musical background I PM'd him, thinking he may have more knowledge then Roger. The reason I had not re-awakened the matter with Roger directly. Dave, unaware that I had originally raised the issue with Roger eighteen months ago then asked for his opinion! Sorry both, there was no subterfuge on my part, merely trying to assess which horse's mouth might have the information and not bother Roger unnecessarily!
[li]A guy who was at art school with Lennon and met up with both him and McCartney (then at the Grammar School) but was never on intimate terms with either.
[/li][li]Retired Head of School of Art and Design at Manchester University and National Examiner in the subject.
[/li][li]One of the gaggle of an independently-minded bolshi lot that one after-noon, sitting around in a friend's conservatory, decided to stand for the Town council. In our promotional literature we said we didn't give a damn for party politics, we were issues people, hadn't a clue about local government but were business people and understood the world at large, so we didn't think we would make a worse hash of it then the supposedly 'professional' politicos. The town said, 'go on, give it a go' and three months later we were the Town Council!
Spending the next four years on the Planing Committee I could not have had a better tutor to open my eyes to seeing around me what I had never previously noticed!
[/li][/ul][/li][/ul]
That is the full background to the PM I sent to Dave as I was not certain if the matter was likely to be of embarrassment to Decca, Hayley's management, or simply the RLPO, who may be at fault in failing to proof-read correctly, thus letting the error through (if that is the case).
What had happened was that the three of us (the key people who made certain things happened in the town when the rag tag bundle of independents took control decided it was time we met for lunch again. This elicited the following email from my friend.
Hence my re-awakening the seeming anomaly that clearly needs some explanation.
Peter S.
Following Dave's suggestion I have started this thread.
The background to starting the thread is the following post by Dave (NZ Sunday Star Magazine thread) in response to a PM to him.
dave said:
postscript said:
By the by can I just say to you: RPO RLPO PM? Any thoughts, observations, news?
Peter S.
Hi Peter, Oops, I forgot (again!) but I did look into it and I asked Roger too if he knew any more about it but alas he does not. As this was initially a private conversation, I should mention that Peter has information that may indicate that it was the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra (RLPO) which backed Hayley on some or all of Pure, not the The Royal Philharmonic Orchestra (RPO) as credited on both UK editions of Pure, over a year apart - and all others as far as i know. I would be surprised if Decca were that much in error but you never know.
One thing that comes to mind is this: Hayley's book mentions that the original Pure - which was never released - was recorded in Dublin. Remembering where the RLPO is based - not too far across the Irish Sea from Dublin - perhaps they had some involvement in the unreleased version, even though we know most of the backings were electronic? Or the credits on the final version of Pure could be entirely or partially wrong, as your contact seems to have intimated.
Sorry Peter but that's the best I can do for the moment. Feel free to start a thread in the Pure Albums board about the unreleased Pure, version 1, if you wish. I don't think there is such a thread to date and it might turn out to be very interesting indeed. If you do, you might want to quote this post in it, for continuity.
Cheers, Dave
This originated as follows.
[li]November (?) 2005 Royal Philharmonic Hall Liverpool.
[/li][li]Conversation with Jill (somewhat jet-lagged [Hayley please note!) in which I mentioned that I was staying in each of Hayley's locations for 2 or 3 days so I could look round the cities, looking at architecture and drew Jill's attention to the fact that if they had time the next day they should take in either the Roman Catholic cathedral (known as 'the stump' or 'wigwam') or the Anglican cathedral, each at opposite ends of the road in which the Hall stood and preferably both as fine examples of totally different use of stained glass. In particular [the reason for this long lead-in as a chance to further plug the idea] I would love to hear Hayley's voice in the Anglican cathedral, its organ having over 7,000 pipes presenting a fine body of pipes in the upper registers in which the organ was playing when i dropped in there and lending a wonderful colour accompaniment to Hayley's voice. Such a concert however would require a considerable publicity effort as it is one of the largest Anglican cathedrals in the world.
[/li][li]This conversation derived from the fact that we were talking about the Hall and I advised Jill that this was one of the finest examples of art deco architecture in the country, that the RLPO was the only orchestra in the UK to own its own Concert Hall (excluding the BBC's orchestral department) and that the design was intended to echo the 1930s period of ocean liner design, Liverpool being Cunard's home port.
[/li][li]'You obviously are an expert in architecture', said Jill. 'No', said I, 'My eyes were opened late in life but I've kept them open ever since'.
[/li][li]I was not at this time aware of the RPO/RLPO contradiction but had assumed the raison d'être for the performance was the CD recording of 'Pure'.
[/li][li]It was in mentioning this very wonderful evening to my friend that he advised me of his life-long connection with the RLPO and how proud they were to have recorded with Hayley.
[/li][li]Subsequently I learned, through here and re-checking the assignments on the CD that attribution was actually made to the RPO and not the RLPO.
[/li][li]My friend subsequently attended a dinner with leading members of the RLPO who confirmed it was the RLPO who had recorded 'Pure'. My friend said the RLPO had always been the RLPO but that it was only recently the PO had been able to add 'Royal' to its name, hence beginning to cause some confusion. Further confusion being added were they to call themselves the Royal London Philharmonic Orchestra!
[/li][li]My friend, drawing attention to the attribution on the 'Pure' recording apparently caused not a little consternation raising questions that could not be answered that night.
[/li][li]Roger may have forgotten that I did raise this issue with him as a PM (or verbally perhaps at some meeting) around this time and since my friend had not been able to gain any categorical answer and Roger seemed affirmative that RPO was correct, I let the matter die.
[/li][li]Just recently the matter was raised by my friend and since Dave had been making some very authoritative comments on musical background I PM'd him, thinking he may have more knowledge then Roger. The reason I had not re-awakened the matter with Roger directly. Dave, unaware that I had originally raised the issue with Roger eighteen months ago then asked for his opinion! Sorry both, there was no subterfuge on my part, merely trying to assess which horse's mouth might have the information and not bother Roger unnecessarily!
[li]A guy who was at art school with Lennon and met up with both him and McCartney (then at the Grammar School) but was never on intimate terms with either.
[/li][li]Retired Head of School of Art and Design at Manchester University and National Examiner in the subject.
[/li][li]One of the gaggle of an independently-minded bolshi lot that one after-noon, sitting around in a friend's conservatory, decided to stand for the Town council. In our promotional literature we said we didn't give a damn for party politics, we were issues people, hadn't a clue about local government but were business people and understood the world at large, so we didn't think we would make a worse hash of it then the supposedly 'professional' politicos. The town said, 'go on, give it a go' and three months later we were the Town Council!
Spending the next four years on the Planing Committee I could not have had a better tutor to open my eyes to seeing around me what I had never previously noticed!
[/li][/ul][/li][/ul]
That is the full background to the PM I sent to Dave as I was not certain if the matter was likely to be of embarrassment to Decca, Hayley's management, or simply the RLPO, who may be at fault in failing to proof-read correctly, thus letting the error through (if that is the case).
What had happened was that the three of us (the key people who made certain things happened in the town when the rag tag bundle of independents took control decided it was time we met for lunch again. This elicited the following email from my friend.
Meanwhile back on the Hayley Westenra front I attended a meeting of the Liverpool Phil's governing society three weeks ago and the orchestra/society's chief executive told me in conversation that the recording company who produced her Pure disc had dropped a clanger and had wrongly ascribed the orchestra as the RPO and not the RLPO as I suspected. However, the royalties were assigned to the RLPO. I also raised the topic with the orchestra's executive director responsible for such matters and he was clearly embarrassed, as he should be, for the serious faux pas. I wouldn't mind but this gentleman came to the orchestra after a highly successful international career in the classical music recording industry dealing with highly acclaimed world mega stars. In fairness to him he is mainly responsible for the appointment for THE orchestra's new 30 year-old Russian principal conductor who gets rave national notices. Next season he will take the orchestra on a European tour, which climaxes in Vienna, where the orchestra has played before!
Hence my re-awakening the seeming anomaly that clearly needs some explanation.
Peter S.