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Post by gerrit on Nov 30, 2006 2:43:55 GMT
Hmmm, again,
Sorry for being absent for a while from a thread in which I raised some controversy. Unfortunately, due to family circumstances (my dad suddenly died two days ago) I have not had much opportunity to keep track of discussions.
I would have responded earlier, but I stand by my initial comments.
When I migrated from Holland to Australia in 1980, sports like rugby and cricket meant absolutely nothing to me (they have virtually no standing in Holland whatsoever) - and it took me years to even develop a semblance of liking for either.
Then at some stage, I must have been confronted by the haka for the first time. I can't remember when that was, but I do know for certain that I have never been able to develop the least bit of liking for the haka. I have always thought it to be a very odd and ugly spectacle ....
I have also found it very strange that in pre-match proceedings NZ apparently should have the privilege of being able to express nationalism on two separate occasions, once via the anthem and once via the Maori heritage of the country. I think this should not be so. So as far as I am concerned, it should either be "God Defend New Zealand" or the haka, but not both. No other country has ever had that privilege.
And then, please give me NZ's anthem as the classier of the two performances.
Sorry again, but I simply can not force myself to express an admiration for the haka. My judgement about it has one positive aspect though ... I find the haka (from a strictly personal point of view) positvely ugly.
Fair enough if the haka would be selected. Fair enough if the national anthem would be selected. But why both? Why should only NZ Rugby have that privilege of a double expression of nationalism?
Gerrit
P.S. Frankly, they shouldn't. And therefore they should make a choice.
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Post by fusilier23 on Nov 30, 2006 2:57:46 GMT
Fair enough, Gerrit, I suppose we disagree. Please, however, accept my condolences on the loss of your dad. I hope it wasn't painful for him.
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Post by roger on Nov 30, 2006 9:19:52 GMT
Hi Gerrit,
First of all, I would like to add my sincere condolences for the loss of your father.
In answer to the question about why both the haka and 'God Defend New Zealand' are performed, I would suggest it is because NZ has two separate cultures and people of different heritage in a way that few other countries do. I see no reason why both should not be represented at a national sports event. The fact that other countries don't do it is no reason to preclude New Zealand from doing so.
Roger
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Post by postscript on Nov 30, 2006 11:06:43 GMT
Hi Gerrit.
First, my sympathies with what you have been going through recently. I wish you well through the trouble and turmoil such incidents can cause.
On the thread, I suspect all we can do now is bide a 'final' official outcome fromt the powers that be when debate will re-open on that decision and its whys, wherefores and appropriateness!
Peter S.
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Post by postscript on Nov 30, 2006 11:10:13 GMT
Hi Gerrit, First of all, I would like to add my sincere condolences for the loss of your father. In answer to the question about why both the haka and 'God Defend New Zealand' are performed, I would suggest it is because NZ has two separate cultures and people of different heritage in a way that few other countries do. I see no reason why both should not be represented at a national sports event. The fact that other countries don't do it is no reason to preclude New Zealand from doing so. Roger That is a very interesting point, Roger, especially when one remembers Hayley's recent international award for Cultural Achievement! Peter S. |
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Post by gerrit on Dec 3, 2006 22:47:20 GMT
Hi All,
I have had some personal comments from people via PM - I feel that I should respond once more.
To begin with, my initial comments were not intended to anger or upset individual members of this forum - my apologies especially to Belinda in this regard.
Since I migrated from Holland to Australia (a long time ago now) I developed a preference for NZ sporting achievements, rather than Australian ones. That is most likely due to the fact that I found the Australian attitude towards their trans-Tasman Sea "cousins" somewhat arrogant. I found that something similar was happening in regard to the way the Australian mainland looked upon Tasmania (the small island south of Melbourne). I lived in Tasmania for most of my time in Australia, which undoubtedly added to my preference for the small and the underdog.
That was still my position until a few weeks ago. Then a respected newspaper like the New Zealand Herald published a completely unprovoked scathing attack on Welsh rugby. Welsh rugby had become a favourite of mine since they ran the NZ team to 1 point just two years ago and followed that up by winning the Grand Slam in the 6-nations tournament.
I thought the Herald article was completely un-Kiwi like - and then this was followed by what in my perception was pettiness about when the NZ-team should perform the haka.
I don't want to pursue this discussion - but the result of these things has been that NZ rugby has ceased to be one of my favourites ....
Gerrit
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Post by Richard on Dec 5, 2006 16:04:15 GMT
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Post by postscript on Dec 5, 2006 16:46:42 GMT
How very interesting. Thank you, Richard. Peter S. |
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Martin
Global Moderator
HWI Management Team
Posts: 3,339
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Post by Martin on Dec 5, 2006 17:16:49 GMT
Richard (super sleuth) - where do you find all these links? Interesting to see Hayley wear her NZ shirt outside her jeans - I suspect there were several layers of clothing underneath the shirt to guard against the cold!! i.postimg.cc/9fYxy370/smilie-big-grin.gifBest wishes Martin |
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Post by Richard on Dec 5, 2006 17:24:09 GMT
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Post by Belinda on Dec 5, 2006 18:45:26 GMT
Hi Gerrit, re your comments, it was not the ones about the haka that upset me , Its your constant want for NZ to be beaten Congratulations to Australia for beating the New Zealanders in the Rugby League Tri-nations final. Hopefully you'll manage something similar in Rugby Union soon. I think the NZ Rugby Union team deserves a severe beating, and the sooner, the better. Why do they deserve it because they win too much  and there is another comment else where along the same lines, i don't want to continue the discussion either, Belinda NZ |
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Post by drew on Dec 7, 2006 14:00:34 GMT
Hi Belinda,
New Zealand have games in the Rugby World Cup on 08/09/07 (Marseille), 15/09/07 (Lyon), 23/09/07 (Edinburgh) , 29/09/07 (Toulouse) and no doubt some more in October if they progress in the above.
With Hayley's support in Europe the All Blacks won 4 out of 4. Now if Hayley is touring New Zealand in September 2007 then the All Blacks will not have the benefit of Hayley's magical spell. Perhaps another team will have a chance.
Bring back the Haka, rugby is not the same without it.
I have a number of tickets to see Rugby World Cup games during September. Selling those on eBay would pay for a nice trip down south!
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Post by Stephany on Apr 9, 2007 19:47:03 GMT
She did pop across to Paris last weekend. I suspect that the All Blacks cannot do without her. Hayley has been criticized for her interpretation of the Kiwi anthem after this match. I think it's the first time I see a negative review about this. |
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Post by Stephany on Apr 9, 2007 19:53:15 GMT
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Post by roger on Apr 9, 2007 21:42:56 GMT
Hi Stephany, Thank you for those two reports which prove that any review is no more than a matter of personal opinion. I know which one I prefer too.  Roger |
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