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Post by Elliot Kane on Jun 23, 2010 17:59:54 GMT
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Post by chantelle on Jun 23, 2010 19:12:20 GMT
Well, I can no longer direct you to her "older" site (joannamariesoprano.com) because it has apparently just now been down-graded... but she had a few songs on that site that showed her to be a soprano of the highest caliber! It will be nice to have a trained vocalist on the crossover scene who is capable of doing justice to whatever arias she decides to take on (since we seem to have lost Natasha Marsh!).  |
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Post by nicola on Jun 23, 2010 19:32:11 GMT
Agree with Chantelle. From what I heard she is exceptional for her age. Also a very lovely girl. Bubbly and lively. I interviewed her yesterday.
I can't wait for her album. I really enjoyed Natasha Marsh's efforts, and like Chantelle, I think Joanna Marie has a lot in common with her.
Wouldn't compare her to Hayley. Completely different type of voice.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jun 23, 2010 19:51:15 GMT
I agree she sounds nothing like Hayley, Nicola. That's why I wondered if she was really a Soprano, rather than a Mezzo (Or indeed something else). I also figured the people on this site would know for sure |
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Post by nicola on Jun 23, 2010 20:28:31 GMT
Hayley is not operatically trained, just classically. Using her pitch as a measurement of a soprano doesn't work. XD
The "deepness" you hear in Joanna Marie is the rich operatic sound from her training. Again, Chantelle would know more about that!
Chantelle: on a semi related note, can you answer me a question? I've categorised Natasha as a coloratura soprano on my website, purely on the basis that she sings 'Queen of the Night', but when I listen to it, I can't help but feel that it's been transposed lower for her. Her notes don't sound as high as they should be for that aria. Am I just thick, or is my ear right? I don't trust my ear much, you see.
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jun 23, 2010 20:35:18 GMT
Aha! Thanks, Nicola |
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Post by chantelle on Jun 23, 2010 21:22:01 GMT
Nicola: At the risk of turning this into an opera thread...  Yep, Natasha's version is lowered. (In fact, I checked wikipedia to see if she was operatically classified and there is a quote on there STATING that they changed the key.) Most of Natasha's opera/oratorio work (usually the best way to classify a singer) seems to have been lyric repertoire, for what it's worth. Hayley is a really difficult voice to judge other voices by-- and I'm surprised that many fans who consider her to be SO vastly unique and different from any existing vocalist continue to use her as a standard for comparison! Hayley's instrument is very light and flexible and quite individual in its timbre. The light timbre, in fact, is what will classify her as a "soprano" for the duration of her career (assuming she maintains her voice, of course!) in spite of changes in range. It's not the range that determines a voice (although sometimes that plays a part) but rather the weight and color of the voice. (Which is why you can have coloratura mezzos, and lyric baritones, and dramatic sopranos...) Better for "classical" comparison are the existing operatic sopranos. Compare Joanna to, say, Renee Fleming and you'll see what I mean. The voice classifications go, from "richest" to "lightest": Dramatic, Spinto, Lyric, Soubrette, Coloratura. (With shades of grey in between, of course!) Renee is a standard "lyric" soprano. Someone like Natalie Dessay is the queen of all coloraturas (although lately she has abandoned her higher range) and Diana Damrau is a close second. Leontyne Price is a spinto soprano (in her own words, a "juicy lyric"). Deborah Voigt is a dramatic soprano capable of singing some lighter lyric materical (particularly if it is oratorio, not opera) and Jessye Norman is a bona fide dramatic. Barbara Hendricks, Kathleen Battle, and Anna Netrebko are all lyrics but leaning towards different ends of the scale- Barbara and Kathleen towards the soubrette and coloratura, Anna towards the spinto. Dawn Upshaw is a soubrette. Crazy (awesome!) ladies like Joan Sutherland and June Anderson are dramatic coloraturas. Maria Callas is a "standard" lyric that pushed her voice to both extreme edges of the spectrum... to not always successful results! Okay, sorry, got a little carried away! Um... I'll let someone else bring this thread back on topic before I get started on another opera rant! haha PS- Okay, just in case it seems like I'm contradicting myself with the whole range vs. timbre in classification thing... YES range matters, but not in terms of highest and lowest notes. A voice's type (soprano, mezzo, alto, etc) is generally determined by where the sweet spots are. I may have roughly the same range as my mezzo-soprano voice teacher, but aside from the fact that her voice has a much meatier sound than mine, the main thing that makes her a mezzo and me a soprano is that my voice is most comfortable in a different place than hers. To be specific: Our range is about F3 to C6. But "middle voice" for me is about F4 to C5, and probably around C4 to A4 for her. Also our "passagio" (the "break" where the singer has to switch from chest voice to head voice) occurs in different places: Around F5 for me, and probably around D5 for the typical mezzo. (For a reference point: Middle C is C4) Now I'm REALLY going insane with this...! Shutting up now.  |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jun 23, 2010 22:54:52 GMT
Not THAT surprising, surely, Chantelle? If Hayley fans are always seeing Hayley referred to as a Soprano, they will translate 'Soprano' into 'Sounds like Hayley'. It's human nature. Anyone without a serious in-depth knowledge of operatic voice classification (Your own being VERY impressive, if I may say so!) will default to comparison with what they know. And speaking personally, Hayley's voice is more like the standard to which all other female singers will be compared rather than a Soprano standard, as such (Because she sets the standard, IMO). So I guess I always thought of Soprano as 'sounds like Hayley but not as good'. After reading your descriptions, I think I'll stick with 'do I like it or not' in future. Sounds safer!  As for Joanna specifically (Back on topic! Yay! ) she sounded closer to Faryl than to Hayley, hence my wondering if she wasn't in fact a Mezzo. The ignorance of comparison once again, you see! |
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Post by sheilamoorey on Jun 25, 2010 7:58:49 GMT
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Post by mihizawi on Jun 25, 2010 9:53:01 GMT
Wow, Chantelle, that was very, very impressive and interesting. I knew the difference between the lyric vs dramatic voices, and have heard and read all those terms you mention, but didn't know exactly the place each of those terms occupied in the spectrum. May I ask you something? Is Elin Manahan Thomas, as a not opera soprano (she is rather an ancient music specialist), classifying into any of those categories? Or is it exclusively for opera? Hearing her, have found many points in common with Hayley, so, if we could classify Elin's voice, Hayley would be rather close to that (I think Hayley has more deepness and power than Elin though).
And, yes, this girl is pretty amazing! And definately a soprano.
Michal
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Post by nicola on Jun 25, 2010 9:56:40 GMT
I came here to post that link, lol! Nessun Dorma is recorded too much for me, but her version is superior to other female versions I've heard. Especially Katherine Jenkins' version (I remember seeing that live and being completely underwhelmed!) Normally prefer Sarah Brightman's version (she holds that end note FOREVER) but Joanna's sounds so much more natural and easy to her. She's also recorded The Prayer and You'll Never Walk Alone. If she records Nella Fantasia and Time To Say Goodbye on top of those, I think I might despair. I love her personality and her voice, so I'm really willing myself to love her music, too! If her material doesn't freshen up a little, I may struggle.  |
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Dave
Administrator
HWI Admin
Posts: 7,700
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Post by Dave on Jun 25, 2010 11:24:11 GMT
Now I'm REALLY going insane with this...! Shutting up now. Thanks for your explanation chantelle, it was very interesting to read! I'm still not clear though why I like Hayley's voice but not (usually) Katherine Jenkins', yet I do like Anna Netrebko's voice and a few other opera singer's voices - so it can't be "trained opera singer versus natural singer". It might be "light versus rich" I suppose - but part of it is steadyness of pitch, which must be rock solid for me. I don't wish to seem negative but it has to be said, at the moment Joanna Marie Skillet's voice for me falls into the "can't listen to it" category. The Nessun Dorma extract is all I have to go on but for example, it sounded wobbly in pitch to me (which makes me think either a singer is over-doing the vibrato, or that she/he has to overdo it to disguise, erm, wobbly pitch!). But it's not only that, perhaps her voice is just at the wrong end of the "dramatic versos coloratura" scale? I don't know how old she is (but I only make a slight allowance for age anyway) and I'm sorry I can't agree with those who love her voice - I'm not even certain why - but that's how it is. Good luck to her though, perhaps time and practice will allow it to mellow more to my taste - and perhaps the choice of song doesn't help! Cheers, Dave |
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Post by Elliot Kane on Jun 25, 2010 12:39:24 GMT
Dave, I think I might be able to answer the Katherine Jenkins thing, as I'm the same myself. Like many professional singers, Katherine hits all the right notes perfectly at the right points, but she doesn't really bring anything new to what she sings. If what you look for is technical perfection, she's great. If you're looking for something that would make the songs her own, you won't find it (Or at least, I never did). Hayley (& Faryl for that matter) brings that extra edge of adding something of her own to the songs she sings. It's the difference between the really good singer and the GREAT singer, IMO. No offence meant to Katherine's fans here, BTW. Taste is a very individual thing |
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Post by nicola on Jun 25, 2010 16:19:35 GMT
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Post by mihizawi on Jun 25, 2010 17:34:59 GMT
Ugh, Nicola, lol, that girl is just as exuberant with words as her voice is! Nice interview and a very, very interesting view on classical music (including classical crossover), very similar to how I see it!
Michal
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