|
|
Post by milewalker on Sept 5, 2010 21:51:50 GMT
Okay Martin,
I am curious as to which rap artists you have listened to to make this fair and unbiased judgement of the merits of their music. Surely you will be able to come up with at least two or three samples in the past month or so - otherwise I cant take your argument seriously at all. If this is not the case, arent you prejudging the music on the basis of genre?
The problem is that our senses are constantly bombarded with more stimuli than we could ever process on a case by case basis. We therefore make broad generalizations to filter and organize all of that information. There is very little rap music I have ever heard that I liked (some of it is tolerable). It would therefore be a waste of time to spend much further effort listening to it, so I run filters which are almost sub-concious to screen most of it out.
The way music (or anything) is marketed reflects the way we process information. They dont care one way or another who is listening to which music. They are trying to institute systems which most effectively make the most money. Convince enough record executives that classical crossover is more profitable than mainstream pop, and that is what you will hear on the radio in about a month.
|
|
|
|
Post by martindn on Sept 5, 2010 21:58:33 GMT
Er El Mahico. Never heard of them I'll bet. The lead singer is the daughter of a friend, and they bring a particularly Bangladeshi influence to rap (although they are trying to be central American). And I paid money for the CD, and enjoyed most of it, she has a nice voice. Recorded about a mile away from where I live.
I also enjoyed Hayley's appearance with the Misfits of Science. But you are right, I generally don't like rap, but as you see, there are exceptions. If I refused to listen to anything called "rap" I would have missed out on them.
Martin D
|
|
|
|
Post by milewalker on Sept 5, 2010 22:12:51 GMT
Er El Mahico. Never heard of them I'll bet. The lead singer is the daughter of a friend, and they bring a particularly Bangladeshi influence to rap (although they are trying to be central American). And I paid money for the CD, and enjoyed most of it, she has a nice voice. Recorded about a mile away from where I live. I also enjoyed Hayley's appearance with the Misfits of Science. But you are right, I generally don't like rap, but as you see, there are exceptions. If I refused to listen to anything called "rap" I would have missed out on them. Martin D Arent these examples a bit disingenious Martin? Of course you listened to the music from someone you knew, or a performance by Hayley in any genre because she was Hayley. I dont think these counterpoints are valid because they would not transfer to the general decision making you might do when you walked into a record store. |
|
|
|
Post by mihizawi on Sept 5, 2010 22:23:42 GMT
Most of her music had never been played on radio. Her UK albums releases are tailored so that they can be included in the classical charts. Yet despite this lack of publicity, she has sold nearly as many records as say Cheryl Cole, who is on our TV screens every week at prime time on Saturday evenings. And Cheryls sales are mainly singles, whilst Hayleys are albums. Something is wrong somewhere, and I think it is these artificial divisions within music that are the main culprit. The trouble is, those who run the media seem to think they are important. In reality, for any listener there are only two kinds of music. Music you like and music you don't. And for me, genre is no guide at all to which category a particular artist or piece of music might fall. Martin D Unfortunately, Martin, in the first part of what I quoted I agree only partially, while on your last paragraph I sadly have to disagree. First of all, I will point out something you already know: the categories you mention are not two, but three: "Music you like", "Music you don't like" and the third, "Music you've never heard". And, in this last case, the media actually are important: I discovered Hayley through Youtube, through her videos with Celtic Woman, which I found being related to a video of one of Enya's song. I would never get to know my favoritesinger if the genre relationship wouldn't have worked indirectly on Youtube. Hayley is non-existent in the Spanish media or stores (well, it was actually a very nice surprise to find the Celtic Woman's DVD on a store, but as a soloist, she really is inexistent). And the process of finding Hayley they way I did, is loong and requires conscious dedicattion: many people don't have the time or the interest to explicitly explore new artists and music, so they will have to go on with what the media covers and will only like or dislike those artist that have media coverage. And, even more, there are people, and not so few, whose tastes are more influenced by the media than by the "I like"/"I dislike" criteria. Many people, specially younger, will like what they are "told" to like, what everyone else likes and what is popular at each moment... And even more, I find that in among my university friends, there are many that are influenced by the media and the fashions rather the opposite way: I found myself surprised that many of my mates tend to reject an artist or a song because it's too commercial, even when it's not so different to what they listen to. Michal |
|
|
|
Post by martindn on Sept 5, 2010 22:42:22 GMT
Hi Michal,
Yes, I agree, there are many influences that affect peoples discovery of music, and young people especially tend to be subject to the "herd instinct", liking music because they think it is "cool" or fashionable.
Obviously, you can have no opinion about music you have not heard, and that is a huge category for all of us. But of the music I have heard, genre classifications are only a very vague indication of whether or not I will like it. Even among genres that I don't particularly like, say jazz, I can still find some examples that I do like. And among music that I generally like, say Classical, there are some pieces I dislike.
So if the purpose of genre classification is to help us avoid music we don't like, or to find music we do like, it is not 100% successful. In fact, I think I am right in saying the only genre that I like 100% is "Hayley" (although there are probably some other artists that I have not heard enough of to be sure I don't like them 100%). There has never been anyone or anything else that I could say that about. Most artists and genres are much less consistent.
Martin D
|
|
|
|
Post by mihizawi on Sept 5, 2010 22:57:17 GMT
Hi Martin, with your sentences, you've hit the point: you say you generally don't like Jazz and you generally like Classical. Genres are just that, generalizations, and as generalizations, they are imperfect, but yet, even in your case it seems they TEND to be right.
The fact that you listen to everything and find enjoyment in every genre says that, in terms of music, you are open-minded, and it's a good thing. However, not everyone is like you, many people won't bother to listen to something new or very different to what they are used to, it's their lose, but it's also their right and for them genres are certainly more useful than for you.
Michal
|
|
|
|
Post by larryhauck on Sept 5, 2010 23:22:38 GMT
Most of her music had never been played on radio. Her UK albums releases are tailored so that they can be included in the classical charts. Yet despite this lack of publicity, she has sold nearly as many records as say Cheryl Cole, who is on our TV screens every week at prime time on Saturday evenings. And Cheryls sales are mainly singles, whilst Hayleys are albums. Something is wrong somewhere, and I think it is these artificial divisions within music that are the main culprit. The trouble is, those who run the media seem to think they are important. In reality, for any listener there are only two kinds of music. Music you like and music you don't. And for me, genre is no guide at all to which category a particular artist or piece of music might fall. Martin D Unfortunately, Martin, in the first part of what I quoted I agree only partially, while on your last paragraph I sadly have to disagree. First of all, I will point out something you already know: the categories you mention are not two, but three: "Music you like", "Music you don't like" and the third, "Music you've never heard". And, in this last case, the media actually are important: I discovered Hayley through Youtube, through her videos with Celtic Woman, which I found being related to a video of one of Enya's song. I would never get to know my favoritesinger if the genre relationship wouldn't have worked indirectly on Youtube. Hayley is non-existent in the Spanish media or stores (well, it was actually a very nice surprise to find the Celtic Woman's DVD on a store, but as a soloist, she really is inexistent). And the process of finding Hayley they way I did, is loong and requires conscious dedicattion: many people don't have the time or the interest to explicitly explore new artists and music, so they will have to go on with what the media covers and will only like or dislike those artist that have media coverage. And, even more, there are people, and not so few, whose tastes are more influenced by the media than by the "I like"/"I dislike" criteria. Many people, specially younger, will like what they are "told" to like, what everyone else likes and what is popular at each moment... And even more, I find that in among my university friends, there are many that are influenced by the media and the fashions rather the opposite way: I found myself surprised that many of my mates tend to reject an artist or a song because it's too commercial, even when it's not so different to what they listen to. Michal Hi Guys I think that your are micro thinking the issue of Hayley's popularity and why people like her or don't like her. First some just don't like that kind of music. Second the reason the Celtic Woman group are so recognizable is due to their worldwide touring habits and the fact that Celtic music is so popular. I think that Hayley would have done better world wide had she stayed with the group and then struck out on her own as several other group members have done. Hayley's talent is far better than the rest of the group. Having said that I don't know what Hayley's contractual circumstances were ate that time so my opinion is pure conjecture. But the fact remains that exposure is the key to success for a talented entertainer. Larry |
|
